Builds Stretched 1-Ton FJ40 (9 Viewers)

[Mike Shull]

I need some advice with my LS tune. Brendan from LS1swap.com mentioned to me that he hasn’t found a way for the gen4 LS PCM to read a VSS directly from a manual transmission setup. The only way that he knows is through the TCM, which I don’t have. He is recommending to add a Camaro/Corvette tune for a manual transmission and delete the VSS signals to the PCM. He also mentioned that this may introduce idle and deceleration issues, and it may also introduce other challenges, though unspecified.

@archie73 and @peesalot, you both have LS engines, right? Archie has a manual transmission if I remember correctly. What generation LS do you have and what tune did you use? Were you able to get your PCM to recognize a VSS signal from a manual transmission?

 

[peesalot]

My comp is from howell , they deleted the vss, it runs rich just before a stop and while idling for a bit but corrects after a few secs I guess due to O2 input ( I have 2 ), but no drivability issues, the thing can come to a full stop and pick right back up, it rarely dies on me, love it.
Call Georg at Valley Hybrids/Cruiser Brothers, he has worked thru this before and IIRC there is a tone ring tooth count you need to know or switch comp to match & I do believe they have the vss options for both cases ( 3spd & split )

 

[Mike Shull]

My comp is from howell , they deleted the vss, it runs rich just before a stop and while idling for a bit but corrects after a few secs I guess due to O2 input ( I have 2 ), but no drivability issues, the thing can come to a full stop and pick right back up, it rarely dies on me, love it.
Call Georg at Valley Hybrids/Cruiser Brothers, he has worked thru this before and IIRC there is a tone ring tooth count you need to know or switch comp to match & I do believe they have the vss options for both cases ( 3spd & split )

I’ve used Howell many years ago. I had their 4.3l Vortec TBI on my 2F back in the late 90s. They know their stuff. I also used their harnesses on a few street rods that I built.

I know that you have a manual because you were asking about throw out bearings. What year is your LS? I’ll have to keep George in mind. Thanks.

 

[peesalot]

sm420, 2001 lq9, I would run the vss if I could, not going to redo things to get it tho. Had ls put in in 2006, changed oil twice & plugs twice, that dam thing just plain runs, hits the rev limiter in 3rd, low all day long, fun as hell, I can go from crawl idle to wot , only really works in 3rd, low but thats the way to haul the mail on the trail.

 

[Mike Shull]

sm420, 2001 lq9, I would run the vss if I could, not going to redo things to get it tho. Had ls put in in 2006, changed oil twice & plugs twice, that dam thing just plain runs, hits the rev limiter in 3rd, low all day long, fun as hell, I can go from crawl idle to wot , only really works in 3rd, low but thats the way to haul the mail on the trail.

Sounds like fun! You have the third gen. I have the forth gen, which has a completely different computer. The wiring seems similar but the pinouts to the PCM are not the same. There seems to be more content available for the third gen and I am using that along with what Brendan has on the 4th gen to hook things up.

I looked up @archie73 ’s build thread and it looks like he also has the third gen. Brendan’s Youtube videos seemed to suggest that tuning the third gen with a manual transmission was easier. We will see how the Corvette tune goes with the forth gen. The engines are the same size so what could go wrong.

Update: I am earmarking the following link from HP Tuners. There are a few threads in this forum of folks using a 4th gen LS and a manual transmission.

They talk about switching injectors to match the Corvette tune, and some talk about deleting the VVT by using a comp cam and a Vette throttle body. None that I have found mention what they did with the VSS and I don’t seem to have enough access on this forum to respond.

I’ll start with the tune before I go any deeper as the main objective is to get it running.

E38 tune for a 6.2L from an Escalade convert to manual trans - https://forum.hptuners.com/showthread.php?104623-E38-tune-for-a-6-2L-from-an-Escalade-convert-to-manual-trans

 

[Mike Shull]

Anyone have any idea what this circled box does from the picture below that I found on ls1swap.com? I didn’t have the box with mine, but I did have a similar plug in this area, though my plug clamps in a different place and may not have connected to this box. I thought that the plug was for under dash wiring and I deleted everything except for the pedal controls. The rest of the wiring went to the fuse panel or deleted PCM pins from what I remember. I’m not too concerned, just curious.

 

[peesalot]

It is my understanding that the VVT needs the VSS so you have to delete both, what all that entails is found on the sites you are looking at. I will say that Aggro had a nice running Gen4 with a manual way back when they first came out and it ran fine so its doable. I know there are vss that go on the tcase so you can maintain vvt.

 

[Mike Shull]

It is my understanding that the VVT needs the VSS so you have to delete both, what all that entails is found on the sites you are looking at. I will say that Aggro had a nice running Gen4 with a manual way back when they first came out and it ran fine so its doable. I know there are vss that go on the tcase so you can maintain vvt.

Thanks! I have a VSS on my tcase so that isn’t the limiting factor. Are you referring to @Aggron ? I can’t seem to find anyone by the name of Aggro on here.

 

[peesalot]

He's long gone, still alive but hasnt been on boards for awhile, maybe lurking. I do not recall any posts re a build. Curious, if you have the vss and the tone count matches what the comp is looking for, plug it in ? how to solve the missing gear signal from tcm is over my pay grade but I suppose thats the issue, I'd call Georg or at least pm him the ?

 

[Mike Shull]

He's long gone, still alive but hasnt been on boards for awhile, maybe lurking. I do not recall any posts re a build. Curious, if you have the vss and the tone count matches what the comp is looking for, plug it in ? how to solve the missing gear signal from tcm is over my pay grade but I suppose thats the issue, I'd call Georg or at least pm him the ?

Hey. I wish that I knew the answer to that question but I don’t have the tuner software and I’m not sure exactly what the complication is. I connected with another shop in Southern California through the HP Tuner forum post linked above and they have successfully connected a manual transmission VSS to an E38 PCM using the 2009 Corvette OS. I’m digging a bit deeper and I’ll post what I end up with.

 

[archie73]

I’m running a bone stock 2001 LM7, 1978 SM465 & Orion. No VSS. I was sweating it as well before I got it running. The internet is all over the place on if you have to have it or not. @peesalot discription of his idle actually described what I was fearing. (Maybe it’s not really that bad either?) I had a plan on a way the rig one up and made sure to have the vss wire(s) available in my harness. In the end, I decided I’d deal with it when it cropped up, but I have no stumbling or idle issues I guess I got lucky…

I don’t remember any specifics on the tune for my Ecm, just that I told them I wanted the simplest reprogram. I figured it would be more reliable if they fiddled less.

If your Atlas(?) has a vss port -plug it in and give a rip. According to @cruisermatt, the vss signal isn’t really looking for a specific tooth count- just that the driveshaft is turning. Sounds like worst case scenario you’ll need to feather the throttle at idle. I think the beauty of the LS swap is that somebody else is already done it. There’ll be an answer out there if you have a problem.

 

[Mike Shull]

I’m running a bone stock 2001 LM7, 1978 SM465 & Orion. No VSS. I was sweating it as well before I got it running. The internet is all over the place on if you have to have it or not. @peesalot discription of his idle actually described what I was fearing. (Maybe it’s not really that bad either?) I had a plan on a way the rig one up and made sure to have the vss wire(s) available in my harness. In the end, I decided I’d deal with it when it cropped up, but I have no stumbling or idle issues I guess I got lucky…

I don’t remember any specifics on the tune for my Ecm, just that I told them I wanted the simplest reprogram. I figured it would be more reliable if they fiddled less.

If your Atlas(?) has a vss port -plug it in and give a rip. According to @cruisermatt, the vss signal isn’t really looking for a specific tooth count- just that the driveshaft is turning. Sounds like worst case scenario you’ll need to feather the throttle at idle. I think the beauty of the LS swap is that somebody else is already done it. There’ll be an answer out there if you have a problem.

You are right about the internet. The two individuals that I spoke with today seemed to think that my specific computer would not accept a VSS signal straight from the transfer case as they both claimed to have spent significant time trying to program this configuration. One suggested deleting the VSS and keeping my PCM with a Vette tune. The other suggested using a newer PCM from a base model Vette and connecting it to a VSS. I’m going with the first option for now (deleting the VSS and keeping my PCM).

 

[EWheeler]

You are right about the internet. The two individuals that I spoke with today seemed to think that my specific computer would not accept a VSS signal straight from the transfer case as they both claimed to have spent significant time trying to program this configuration. One suggested deleting the VSS and keeping my PCM with a Vette tune. The other suggested using a newer PCM from a base model Vette and connecting it to a VSS. I’m going with the first option for now (deleting the VSS and keeping my PCM).

My sand car runs the 0411 GM ECU with a manual transmission stand alone harness. No VSS. No issues. I realize you have a factory harness and different computer, but there are definitely solutions for you. Just gotta find the cheapest/easiest one!

 

[Mike Shull]

My sand car runs the 0411 GM ECU with a manual transmission stand alone harness. No VSS. No issues. I realize you have a factory harness and different computer, but there are definitely solutions for you. Just gotta find the cheapest/easiest one!

When are you putting this into one of your Cruisers? Ha! Good to know. I’m going with what I have for now and I can switch it up later if needed.

 

[peesalot]

Archie, mine has no idle issues at all, runs great, its just if you are familiar with engines and a bit anal you can hear the richness as you come to a stop but its cleared by the time you take foot off brake. It has been the best motor for me, just runs period. IMO ditch the vss and go play.

 

[Mike Shull]

Anyone have any idea what this circled box does from the picture below that I found on ls1swap.com? I didn’t have the box with mine, but I did have a similar plug in this area, though my plug clamps in a different place and may not have connected to this box. I thought that the plug was for under dash wiring and I deleted everything except for the pedal controls. The rest of the wiring went to the fuse panel or deleted PCM pins from what I remember. I’m not too concerned, just curious.

View attachment 3540694

I’ve ditched the VSS, well, sort of. I still need it for my gauges. I’m bumping this back to the top (or is it the bottom of the thread?). What is this box?

 

[deliverance]

I’ve ditched the VSS, well, sort of. I still need it for my gauges. I’m bumping this back to the top (or is it the bottom of the thread?). What is this box?

View attachment 3541977

Transmission Control Module

 

[Mike Shull]

Transmission Control Module

Thank you.

 

[UZJ40]

I’ve ditched the VSS, well, sort of. I still need it for my gauges.

I'd just get the GPS module if I were you... soooo easy. No calibration or anything.

 

[archie73]

Archie, mine has no idle issues at all, runs great, its just if you are familiar with engines and a bit anal you can hear the richness as you come to a stop but its cleared by the time you take foot off brake. It has been the best motor for me, just runs period. IMO ditch the vss and go play.

Yeah, that was my point. I wonder if the “issues” I had read about were more toward the perfectionist crowd than me.