Target carrier (1 Viewer)

[J Mack]

Because getting sidetracked on a project is a way of life for me I’m looking at changing up the battery system in the Target Carrier right now. Any of you guys looked into Lithium batteries?

Before this year’s camping season I would like to get an ARB fridge and if I run my engine/cab heater all night I’m already up against the limit of my battery power, I currently two group 34/78 AGM batteries at 68AH but like all lead batteries I only get about half of that before I damage the batteries (if I understand what I’m reading correctly).

From what I understand lithium batteries are often able to deliver up to about 95% of their capacity without a significant change in voltage making them better suited for what I plan to use them for in my system.



This is what I’m currently leaning towards, 100Ah, 3.2V, 2C, CA100FI, CALB EV Lithium LiFePO4 battery.

Dimensions(L*W*H): 5.6” * 2.6” * 8.4”

Four of them would give me 100AH at 12Volts to power camping accessories only weigh 30 lbs. and I believe if I wire them in the non-standard buss bar configuration I would have a battery 22.5” Long, 2.6” Wide, 8.6” High and could possibly fit them behind the rear cargo panels.

The batteries are available at several U.S sources but this is the best price I’ve found.

US $436.8 22% OFF|4Pcs 3.2v 100ah Lifepo4 battery 12v100AH Lithium iron phosphate cell batteries NEW CALB ca100 Plastic for solar RV pack to 24V on AliExpress



The batteries will need a BMS, this one doesn’t have a low temp feature but has a nice enclosure.

US $55.25 15% OFF|Daly 12V LiFePO4 BMS 4S 80A/100A Battery Protection Board 18650 Charger PCB BMS For Drill Motor 16.8V standard/Enhance/Balance-in Battery Accessories from Consumer Electronics on AliExpress



This one has a low temp cutout but I would need to build an enclosure.



US $7.65 11% OFF|DYKB smart BMS 4S 12V 60A 80A 100A 120A Li ion LifePo4 Lithium Protection Board balance High Current Bluetooth APP software GPRS on AliExpress



Just throwing this out to see if any of you have looked in to these and have any thoughts.

 

[Megadoomer]

Does this include using a deep cycle battery? I always thought a good system uses a regular battery to run the engine and a deep cycle for all the fun stuff.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Some LifePo4 bateries now have integrated BMS. The big problem with lithium as a car battery replacement right now is that they can't be charged or discharged at low temperatures. You need to have heating mats to warm the batteries before you can start the truck (or use them at all).

Renogy/Battleborn and a few others make 12v lifepo4 batteries that are sized as drop-in replacements for lead-acid and agm batteries. Give them a call and see what their recommendations are today. Lots of people in the customized camper market are using them now.

https://battlebornbatteries.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/Battle-Born-Manual.pdf

 

[J Mack]

Yeah looking back at my post I wasn’t very clear about my plan.

The plan is to keep both the current Group 34/78 AGM batteries under the hood and use them for all their current duties. I would like to add an additional 100AH Lithium battery to the system and have the ability to stuff it in an unused area of the pig.



Was looking at buying 8 of the Battleborn batteries for the ramp truck and that’s what got me side tracked on adding a refrigerator for the camping pig and a battery that could be charged from the alternator and just power the fridge or other camping needs.

The batteries I linked can be configured into different shapes to fit random areas but like everything “China” they make me nervous especially when they have the potential to blow up

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Ah, gotcha.

DC-DC charger with a battleborn battery would get you what you want. There are DC-DC chargers that can take power from a traditional auto electrical system (with whatever battery) and charge a lifepo4 battery with the correct profile. IIRC the battleborn batteries' integrated BMS has battery protect features for temperature, max discharge, and charge/discharge rates.

The same can be achieved with CALB batteries, but like your research indicates, you need to invest in a BMS (with associated controls) to protect those cells.

 

[scrapdaddy]

Good information going on here.

 

[J Mack]

Does this include using a deep cycle battery? I always thought a good system uses a regular battery to run the engine and a deep cycle for all the fun stuff.

This is what I think I know, actual facts may differ.

Traditionally deep-cycle battery and or 'cranking' automotive batteries were "flooded" lead–acid batteries and yes you would pick one based on need (high-current burst or slower – lower discharge rate) but both had a 50% depth of discharge for best life.

Now we have Absorbent Glass Mat (AGM) batteries and they kind of bridge the gap so we don’t really talk about them as “Deep cycle” or “Starting” batteries” and that is what I currently have in the pig, again rated at 50% depth of discharge for best life. These work well for what I do 99.9% of the time but I’m right on the edge of dropping below my 50% depth of discharge safety margin on my accessory battery if I run something like my cab heater all night so adding anything like a mini fridge is out of the question currently.

If I had to do it over I might look into one of the LifePo4 batteries like the “Battle Born” but mounting one in the engine compartment might be tricky because they won’t charge above 135F or below 25F and I’m already too far down this road I’m on to turn back. The batteries like the Battle Born come in a standard battery size with a built-in BMS making them really convenient for mounting in existing battery boxes but less than ideal if you’re trying to cram something in a little space like the area in our rear quarter panels between the outer skin and inner panel, the CALB EV Lithium LiFePO4 batteries I linked above are individual 3.2V cells that can be linked together to make a 12.8V battery and have 100AH but I’ll need to come up with a BMS and some way to contain them.

Anyway I’m done rambling, just kicking some ideas around with my internet buddies here on MUDD to see if we can come up with something cool.



Lots of good info here if you want to read more from someone that seems to actually know what he’s talking about. Mobile Solar Power: Made Easy! DIY Off-grid Solar Power!


Edit to add these also look like they could be made to fit in a small area. US $452.2 5% OFF|2019 NEW 4PCS 3.2V 105Ah lifepo4 battery CELL not 100ah 12V105Ah for EV RV battery pack diy solar EU US TAX FREE UPS or FedEx-in Replacement Batteries from Consumer Electronics on AliExpress

 

[RUSH55]

 

[tucker74]

Just to throw a wrench in the discussion...I assume you’ve looked into a lithium power pack like the Goal Zero Yeti 1000? Have a buddy who has one in his 200, runs fridge for a week ... options to charge via solar and off truck ... isolated from your starting. Another good option to look into anyway, not that it would save you any money.

Tucker

 

[PabloCruise]

Before this year’s camping season I would like to get an ARB fridge and if I run my engine/cab heater all night I’m already up against the limit of my battery power...

Before I read a bunch of words, a question...
If it is cold enough to need the heater at night, the fridge is not going to need to run much, if at all, eh?

 

[WarDamnEagle]

Before I read a bunch of words, a question...
If it is cold enough to need the heater at night, the fridge is not going to need to run much, if at all, eh?

It will if it’s mounted in the pig.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

FWIW, battleborn does sell smaller LifePo4 batteries also. LxWxH 7.35x7.125x9

I've done some research in putting LiPo batteries in my camper instead of flooded lead-acid or AGM batteries. If you want to get really fancy and want a metric s***-ton of power, you can get a tesla battery pack and stick it anywhere. Same problems as with the CALB cells, and they run at 48v (meaning you'd need to transform up/down from 12v for charge/discharge) but they're economical for how much power you get.

85-type | Battery Modules | Products | 057 Technology

057 Technology, LLC

hsrmotors.com

Lots of options, not many are plug and play!

 

[PabloCruise]

It will if it’s mounted in the pig.

If you can take it out at night, more room for sleeping - bonus!

 

[J Mack]

Before I read a bunch of words, a question...
If it is cold enough to need the heater at night, the fridge is not going to need to run much, if at all, eh?

In theory you are correct but I’m already pushing my luck running off a single accessory battery so I wouldn’t add something like a fridge unless I was sure the system could handle it. Often times we camp alone way off grid and if I needed to use the SAT phone to call a buddy and have him drive for hours into the back country to jump start me because I was trying to keep my beer cold I would never live that down.

Just to throw a wrench in the discussion...I assume you’ve looked into a lithium power pack like the Goal Zero Yeti 1000?

I briefly looked at the Jackery Portable Power Station Explorer 500 but to be honest I’m just now starting down this path of learning about off grid power on my other project and I’m reading so much stuff and really only understand a fraction of it.

What I believe at this moment is that there are some really good units and batteries that pretty much plug and play if you’re willing to pay all the monies for them, if you’re willing shop the individual components and do a little cobbling things together you can build some really good systems/ batteries for a fraction of the cost. My dilemma at the moment is my needs don’t outweigh the cost of buying something good and I don’t know enough to go out and buy the components to build what I want so I’m talking with smart guys like yourself trying to educate myself.

My low buck motorhome project will get a large battery bank and solar so I’m kind of trying to build something small and affordable to learn the system components and hopefully have something usable for the camping pig when I’m done.

 

[J Mack]

If you want to get really fancy and want a metric s***-ton of power, you can get a tesla battery pack

Wow those are really cool, I didn't realize those Tesla batteries had that much power

 

[dogfishlake]

I know it seems like a copout but what is so wrong with a Honda eu1000 or 2000 generator? That and a charger and you are good. I honestly think I might go this route. That way I can run on battery amd cheap solar and if I overshoot then I run the thing for an hour and on my way. Also if you are in a remote spot building outhouses or deer blinds you can run a saw or pancake compressor.

I love the alternative energy stuff but it seems to be heavy laden with "trendy tax"

 

[bobm]

What's the matter with Good old days of using a pinecone to, well, you know, if you're out a paper

 

[RUSH55]

First World Problems

 

[PabloCruise]

Wow those are really cool, I didn't realize those Tesla batteries had that much power

Here we go, now the next revision of the Target Carrier will be a diesel/electric hybrid.
Elevator motors out at each wheel controlled by some stability control algorithms from the last decade, so there go the gears and lockers.
Instant torque.
No more tranny and t-case, so lots of room for the batteries.
The diesel runs at a preset RPM, so no need for turbo and inter cooler.
And you can probably power your fridge...

 

[PabloCruise]

What's the matter with Good old days of using a pinecone to, well, you know, if you're out a paper

No pine cones? No problem! Use poison ivy...