Shop Build. Finally Broke Ground.

[WarDamnEagle]

I wonder if we could plumb the radiant system in a way that would allow cold water from the well to be circulated through the system during the summer. I may have to chat with the plumber about that.

That would be a disaster here as the floor would stay wet. I don't think you would have that issue though. 90F air at 15% humidity has a dew point of just over 36F, so as long as your floor stayed above that temp it wouldn't get wet.

Edit: Cold doesn't rise like heat though so I'm not sure it would be worth the trouble/electricity. I would at least find some evidence that it works in practice before I moved forward with the idea.

 

[PIP]

We are doing a waterfurnace geothermal heat pump, radiant floor heat and heat exchangers in our home this year. We have a very high water table so geothermal should be pretty effective.

I haven't heard of anyone cooling the slab to cool a room. I think it would create a big moisture problem like WarDamneagle says.

It was 96 degrees and 30% here yesterday. I was running 2x 3 ton heat pumps cooling my 7800 sq ft shop. One I haven't plumbed in a drain yet and I got 10 gallons of water from just the one coil in 6 hours.

 

[BadReligion]

That would be a disaster here as the floor would stay wet. I don't think you would have that issue though. 90F air at 15% humidity has a dew point of just over 36F, so as long as your floor stayed above that temp it wouldn't get wet.

Edit: Cold doesn't rise like heat though so I'm not sure it would be worth the trouble/electricity. I would at least find some evidence that it works in practice before I moved forward with the idea.

We are doing a waterfurnace geothermal heat pump, radiant floor heat and heat exchangers in our home this year. We have a very high water table so geothermal should be pretty effective.

I haven't heard of anyone cooling the slab to cool a room. I think it would create a big moisture problem like WarDamneagle says.

It was 96 degrees and 30% here yesterday. I was running 2x 3 ton heat pumps cooling my 7800 sq ft shop. One I haven't plumbed in a drain yet and I got 10 gallons of water from just the one coil in 6 hours.

Having a 60* shop floor wouldn't do much good if the air above is still in the 90s! Several good points here. I think swamp coolers would be a lot more efficient, especially with low humidity.

 

[knuckle47]

Humidity here is brutal….dew points at 70-72… not sure why the shop is so cool, maybe insulation? The floor is a great radiator though… I had to crawl under the 45 and the floor felt great… still the inside was only 75 air temp and outside was 94. The air is stagnant and if I open the 18’ door, that all changes within 7-10 minutes. I did have an incident last winter where I opened the door and everything had a moisture coating on it from the trucks to the tools… only happened once though. Added A/C yesterday for those 90+ temperature days…hopefully won’t need it but if push comes to shove, it’s there

@WarDamnEagle i know we had discussed this last fall…I surely agree but I’m only out there when the days are conducive for me to try to get something done. 71.4% retired so I’m flexible. If the weather is miserable like last week, unless it’s urgent, it’ll wait

 

[BadReligion]

Framers made it in and are pretty much done after just 2 weeks. They had a big crew and worked fast. Hopefully they spend a bit of time on cleanup this week as a 30' radius around the house is a flat tire hazard. I probably need to invest in a few magnetic sweeps, both the roller kind for floors, and the handheld ones for dirt/yard.

2x6 walls on the outer perimeter, with 2x4 interior walls. Exception is one sheer rated wall that was called out as 2x6, but they ended up doing 2x4 and then stacking on 2 layers of 1" plywood. Not sure why they did it that way as that probably was more wood. Did 10' ceilings and 8' doors so that should help the area feel a bit larger, and increase closet storage.

Speaking of storage, we ended up with a fair amount of attic space. Under the center beam is just over 6'3" so I can actually walk down the middle without ducking. There will be some HVAC equipment and runs up there. We are definitely doing a mini split system, but are trying to decide between ducted, or ductless with overhead air handlers in each room. The ductless is about $8k more, but will allow individual temperature control for each room.

Stairwell. Between landscaping and carrying groceries up and down those stairs, no gym membership will be needed!

First non minor "screw up." The erection crew placed these windows 4" too high, and had to move them after they skinned this side of the building. They felt terrible and said they would reskin the entire side, but had an idea that may avoid that. (You can see the patch seams by the blue arrow). They mocked up a 1x6" trim piece around a window (green arrow) and will either paint it black or wrap it in metal. The 1" j trim that came with the shop looked a bit underwelming around the windows, so we actually really liked the mock up and will go that route. They will do all front windows and the 4 bay doors this way, along with the back top 3 windows. The bottom ones are not visible under the porch. They offered to do the side windows for just the cost of material too. Once they finish the front and rear, I may have them do the side windows (both levels) too.

Erection crew is back next week, and the plumber and electrician will start roughing in the living area, and then move on to the shop walls as the erection finishes. Drywall bid was a bit more than expected. For fire ratings, the entire envelope of the living area needs to be wrapped in 1" gypsum board. To save cost here, I'll just have them screw and fire tape the seams, then likely cover with liner panel myself later.

 

[1911]

Did 10' ceilings and 8' doors so that should help the area feel a bit larger, and increase closet storage.

Good choice. We did 10’ ceilings in the apartment in my shop building, and it really does make the rooms feel much larger.

 

[knuckle47]

Doing the same thing in my old garage….10’ ceilings and the room is 24x26…looks huge

 

[PAToyota]

Hopefully they spend a bit of time on cleanup this week as a 30' radius around the house is a flat tire hazard.

A real downside to pneumatic nailers. They seem to spray nails everywhere and you're finding them for months (years?) afterwards.

Exception is one sheer rated wall that was called out as 2x6, but they ended up doing 2x4 and then stacking on 2 layers of 1" plywood. Not sure why they did it that way as that probably was more wood.

They likely didn't pay close enough attention to the plans and just did all interior walls with 2x4. All too regularly I get such calls from contractors - "Umm... That one wall on the plans that is different? What do we do if we made it the same as the others?" The real issue is when it interferes with other dimensions - particularly in commercial where you're getting into ADA requirements and such and measurements have to be exact.

Did 10' ceilings and 8' doors so that should help the area feel a bit larger, and increase closet storage.

That is my biggest regret with my shop - that I didn't make the ceilings higher than I did. I built the main part in the late 1990's before the internet was really a thing. As such, I didn't plan for a lift downstairs or have people to turn to for advice. The addition is tall enough for a lift, though.

 

[knuckle47]

After Hurricane Sandy a friend of mine who lives on the water raised his house 10 feet. The only real answer for him, and he is also 71, was an elevator. It is more convenient every week according to him. They designed two areas for him…one was a closet space and the other an exterior. He went exterior it was simple and cheaper..still 25k though

 

[BadReligion]

Getting closer. Lean too sections are framed, plan is siding and roofing next week. Plumbers are almost done roughing in the living area. HVAC crew got most of the mini split system in too. We did a combo of ducted and ductless. Exterior doors installed. We will paint and do final hardware (temp hardware on just so they close) later. Had to make a lot of final decisions regarding plumbing fixtures, shower/bath dimensions, finalize cabinet dimensions, and finalize appliance packages. Most lead times are decent, except the kitchen stove is 12 weeks, but we have at least 3 months worth of construction anyway.

Mini split ducting, along with lines and some type of splitter unit for the ductless cassettes. Cassettes will look pretty clean ceiling mounted.

Made a final decision on exterior stone. Real stone (thin cut) was less that manmade stone, and mason said easier to install too.

Meeting the neighbors. Nice 4x4 in velvet.

Working on the wood pile too. The wood boiler for the radiant system is probably going to eat at least 4-5 cords a year. Luckily have a good friend with 80 acres of freshly burnt but standing pine, cedar, and oak, about 1 hour away. I keep a splitter at his place and just haul split wood. Much less messy that way. M1101 works for now, but have a 7x10 dump trailer being delivered this weekend. That will come in handy for wood hauling and landscaping.

 

[PAToyota]

Looking good! If I were doing it over and had the land, I'd go for a monitor barn design as well.

 

[BadReligion]

Looking good! If I were doing it over and had the land, I'd go for a monitor barn design as well.

Thanks! I've always liked how the monitor style barns look. It also makes adding a storage mezzanine or living area easy without having to expand the footprint. Definitely a few stairs to climb to the living area, but the second story views are amazing.

 

[e9999]

didn't read the whole thread, sorry, but one thought came to mind reading the last few posts and seeing the framing skeleton pics. Maybe not relevant.
And that is that if I were to build a building from scratch with a second floor, I'd make sure to leave suitable room to put in a small elevator later -if not put in the elevator in already. Of course for personal old age or mobility issues, but I also think that would make for a very appealing resale feature. There are very few houses with elevators, and the added stair lifts and the like are cumbersome, expensive, and only work with some type of stairs. And there must be a ton of folks that would like the convenience of -or badly need- an elevator. And for a work space, having the ability to carry loads up without struggling up stairs is a big plus. I don't think the elevators themselves are very expensive, but the work needed to accommodate one, if not planned from the beginning, may be quite high if you need serious modifications to the structure. So, I'd plan that from a location/structural perspective from the beginning in case I ever wanted one later on. A bit out there, maybe, but eh...

 

[knuckle47]

My friend along the coast raised his house about 10’ due to Hurricane Sandy and a few others since major flooding was an issue. To make the trip up easier he added an exterior mount elevator rather than give up a closet. It is excellent…but $17,000.00 was his best price

 

[BadReligion]

didn't read the whole thread, sorry, but one thought came to mind reading the last few posts and seeing the framing skeleton pics. Maybe not relevant.
And that is that if I were to build a building from scratch with a second floor, I'd make sure to leave suitable room to put in a small elevator later -if not put in the elevator in already. Of course for personal old age or mobility issues, but I also think that would make for a very appealing resale feature. There are very few houses with elevators, and the added stair lifts and the like are cumbersome, expensive, and only work with some type of stairs. And there must be a ton of folks that would like the convenience of -or badly need- an elevator. And for a work space, having the ability to carry loads up without struggling up stairs is a big plus. I don't think the elevators themselves are very expensive, but the work needed to accommodate one, if not planned from the beginning, may be quite high if you need serious modifications to the structure. So, I'd plan that from a location/structural perspective from the beginning in case I ever wanted one later on. A bit out there, maybe, but eh...

My friend along the coast raised his house about 10’ due to Hurricane Sandy and a few others since major flooding was an issue. To make the trip up easier he added an exterior mount elevator rather than give up a closet. It is excellent…but $17,000.00 was his best price

I honestly never thought about an elevator. A dumb waiter was discussed once we started looking at the stairs, but that could easily be added later, same with an elevator. We are in our late 30s and the kids are 5/7 so we figure we should be ok for our timeframe (2-3 years in the second story). If we were in our 60s and had any pending hip/knee issues, an elevator would be mandatory. Even with a successful total joint replacement, you are looking at a several month window of reduced mobility, which would not be fun with multiple flights of stairs.

Long term, main house will be two story, but we plan on moving to WY once our youngest is done with high school and I can retire. We would not build anything there with our bedroom on the second story. Maybe guest bedrooms.

I can see both sides of the resale argument. Likely anyone that would buy a 4200SF shop with twin lifts and a separate 2 story main house is going to be ok with stairs. But the second story living area above the shop area would also make a perfect "in law" quarters, so the elevator would make sense there. I'm going to defer this to the next owner.

 

[BadReligion]

Finally picked up a 10x7 dump trailer. This thing is awesome. Easy to tow, and makes getting firewood (at least the unloading part) so much easier. Wish I would have bought one of these years ago. Already used it to pick up 9000# of stone for the front of the shop and fireplace, and took 2 loads of construction trash to the dump.

Right saw, wrong bar. Had a 20" on it, should have brought the 28" or even 36" bar. I was going to grab some already cut and split pine, but this oak tempted me. Wood pile is starting to grow. Need to split some of those large rounds and stack everything before this winter.

Shop is getting closer. Erectors are done skinning the sides. Plywood with water membrane going in the lower front section, then stone. Garage doors on order, They just need to finish the lean too and porch roofs. Lots of metal stud framing on the shop floor prior to gypsum board. Per code, the living area needs to be fire protected from the shop area.

Still hoping for a December/January move in.

 

[OGBeno]

Spectacular.

 

[ZackR]

Finally picked up a 10x7 dump trailer. This thing is awesome. Easy to tow, and makes getting firewood (at least the unloading part) so much easier. Wish I would have bought one of these years ago. Already used it to pick up 9000# of stone for the front of the shop and fireplace, and took 2 loads of construction trash to the dump.

Right saw, wrong bar. Had a 20" on it, should have brought the 28" or even 36" bar. I was going to grab some already cut and split pine, but this oak tempted me. Wood pile is starting to grow. Need to split some of those large rounds and stack everything before this winter.

Shop is getting closer. Erectors are done skinning the sides. Plywood with water membrane going in the lower front section, then stone. Garage doors on order, They just need to finish the lean too and porch roofs. Lots of metal stud framing on the shop floor prior to gypsum board. Per code, the living area needs to be fire protected from the shop area.

Still hoping for a December/January move in.

Super cool man, going to be an awesome house for sure!

As for the chainsaw a 20" bar is plenty for firewood. On the occasion you get monster rounds just cut both sides. The bigger bars shine if you are felling large trees, but they take longer to sharpen and require a bigger powerhead. Bigger saws are heavier and will tire you out faster.

What is the door height of the garage? Hopefully it's tall enough for a RV or camper if you decide to get one someday. My neighbor just had to redo his whole shop since be bought a newer class A RV and it was too tall for his existing door.

 

[greenbeast]

Super cool man, going to be an awesome house for sure!

As for the chainsaw a 20" bar is plenty for firewood. On the occasion you get monster rounds just cut both sides. The bigger bars shine if you are felling large trees, but they take longer to sharpen and require a bigger powerhead. Bigger saws are heavier and will tire you out faster.

What is the door height of the garage? Hopefully it's tall enough for a RV or camper if you decide to get one someday. My neighbor just had to redo his whole shop since be bought a newer class A RV and it was too tall for his existing door.

Good point here. Although I had no plans of getting a larger camper we did put 50 amp plug in shop, easy access for grey water dump. My main door is 14x14. Our new Super C RV is almost 12’5” inches in height, taller than anything else we have owned.

 

[BadReligion]

Super cool man, going to be an awesome house for sure!

As for the chainsaw a 20" bar is plenty for firewood. On the occasion you get monster rounds just cut both sides. The bigger bars shine if you are felling large trees, but they take longer to sharpen and require a bigger powerhead. Bigger saws are heavier and will tire you out faster.

What is the door height of the garage? Hopefully it's tall enough for a RV or camper if you decide to get one someday. My neighbor just had to redo his whole shop since be bought a newer class A RV and it was too tall for his existing door.

Thanks! If it were up to me, this would suffice as the "main house", but my wife wants to build the house we designed with the shop. She is giving me a 2 year window to break ground on that. If we didn't have kids, we could make the living area in the shop work long term.

Center two doors are 14' tall x 12' wide, and the lean too doors are 12'x12'. We don't see ourselves buying a class A, but I think they should fit in a 14' door.

Chainsaw is a fuel injected Stihl 500i so I run a 36" bar (full skip semi chisel chain) when we are felling big 48"+ trees, but I prefer the 28" bar for general felling and bucking. But the 20" bar is super nice for limbing and light firewood duty, or when camping/wheeling. We are cutting burnt standing timber so I have to do a quick sharpen with every other tank of gas. Cutting through charred bark is tough on chains. I will say the ES Lightweight bars are worth the price premium, My 36" bar weight less than the regular 28 ES.