Target carrier (4 Viewers)

[J Mack]

Test two,

I’ve been reading that too much "antifreeze" ethylene glycol can be less efficient at cooling than straight water.

Quote from article,

“Now if you've ever poured the stuff into a radiator, you no doubt observed that it is much “syrup-i-er” than water. That is, it has a much higher viscosity. This means that it will not flow as fast through the system as water, and the cooling effect will be less.

Further, the specific heat of antifreeze is less than that of water. This means that for a given temperature change, the antifreeze will carry less heat each time it circulates from engine to radiator and back. So, if the mix is too rich, the cooling efficiency will be reduced because (1) the flow rate is less, and (2) less heat is transferred per cycle of the coolant.

But a 50/50 mix does not give the best cooling. For improved cooling in hot weather, we should use less antifreeze and more water, perhaps going to a 25/75 or a 20/80 mix ratio.”



I had been running a 50/50 mix of antifreeze and water maybe a little more antifreeze after topping off with straight antifreeze a few times but I’m guessing still pretty close to 50/50. I drained the system and mixed 20/80 ratio of antifreeze and soft water then added 16oz of Lucas Super Coolant additive “water wetter” and drove my test road with the grill reinstalled.

With this mixture the temps ran very similar to the 50/50 mix and no grill about a 10° to 15° decrease in temp driving in similar conditions, to be confident in these results I would need to go back and forth with the two mixtures something I’m not willing to do but at this point the 20/80 ratio of antifreeze and soft water would appear to cool better than the 50/50 mixture.

Not sure if it was mentioned, but have you looked Into ford Taurus fans. They run a two speed fan, 2800cfm on low 5600 cfm on high. It's a popular choice for import cars that are modded. And best yet, can be had cheap and plentiful.

After looking there is some different info on high speed cfm. Either way it's somewh were between 4500 and 5600. If you can make it fit it should do the trick. Btw. 3 wire fan is the one you want. Comes out of a 90-95 Taurus with a 3.8.

Thank you!

I have read so much conflicting information concerning the Ford fans I’m just taking my best guess at this point which may only be one step above a complete shot in the dark.

This is what I think I know, the guy in this test DIY fan test chamber - Dodge Cummins Diesel Forum built a testing fixture to test the early/late Volvo fans versus the Ford Taurus fan and he reports Late Volvo post 97 High Speed 3349 CFM, Early Volvo pre 96 S-Blade type blades High Speed 3099 CFM and the Taurus High Speed 3438 CFM all on the same fixture. The Volvo fans are much easier to mount as the fans mount much like the aftermarket fans and are removable form the shroud.



Test three,

I had a Spal 16” fan and switched to a 16” Flex–O–lite fan both in the 2200/2500 CFM advertised range and although they both worked well for normal driving 65/70 MPH neither would keep the temps from climbing over 220° if pushing 75/80 MPH with A/C on going up steep inclines. Taking what I think I know I opted for the late Volvo fan ($15.00 from my local pick and pull) and made a quick spacer to mount it to my existing fan shroud and wired it to high speed only, initial testing show a significant reduction in temps but I still need to spend more time testing before I’m convinced to make this permanent. All testing before switching to the Volvo fan was done on 98° to 100° days, the day I tested the Volvo fan our temps where around 88° and I wasn’t able to get the engine temps above 198° regardless of how I drove, A/C on 88MPH up a fairly long steep hill EGT’s close to 1300° 198° max engine temp and came back down quickly as soon as I reached the top and leveled back out.

Next I’ll make a proper shroud and wire the two speed relay.



Picture of the redneck wood spacer,

 

[boots4]

Yeah, your redneck wood spacer is probably someone else's production product. Spray paint black and you're good to go.

I too found cooling benefit by running a bottle of Lucas super coolant. It did take a little longer to warm up in the winter. One of the reasons I've been concerned about setting up an AC system was the added heat in the cooling row. I'm definitely interested in what your tests conclude.

 

[bobm]

Off subject sorry. Saw a 40 tub made out of plywood. You wouldn't know 5 feet away.

 

[J Mack]

I'm definitely interested in what your tests conclude.

I might have hurt the engine with all my heavy right foot testing, headed to Oregon for a camping trip and if we make it back under our own power I'll dig in a bit more next week.
This is how I spent my day today...
Measuring Blow by, The Real Test For Internal Engine Condition - Seaboard Marine

Off subject sorry. Saw a 40 tub made out of plywood. You wouldn't know 5 feet away.

Luckily I don’t need to make house payments with my wood working skills, much more than a redneck fan spacer and I’m completely out of my comfort zone..

 

[mistyv6]

are you getting enough air flow out of the engine bay. can you space up the back of the bonnet and do a test run.i got 20 deg c on my 75 series bob

 

[J Mack]

are you getting enough air flow out of the engine bay. can you space up the back of the bonnet and do a test run.i got 20 deg c on my 75 series bob

Thanks,

I have thought about it but haven’t came up with a solution. When I switched from the late hood to the early hood I took pause to think if losing the louvered hump would adversely affect my under hood temps, . I did open the fender apron vents in hopes that they would let some under hood heat out but like must things on this project I spent minimal time thinking about it and moved forward to try to get it back up and driving.

I have a hunch I’ll be pulling this engine soon and my take another look at it and try your suggestion if the new engine runs warm.

 

[scrapdaddy]

J Mack,

Have fun on your trip! You've got me scared now talking about new engines and blow by. What is it doing smoking more it should?

 

[cruiserbrett]

What is wrong with the engine? Sorry hear that...

I found the same temp drops with a higher water percentage and Redline water wetter.

 

[J Mack]

Well things didn’t go as planned….

 

[scrapdaddy]

Damn, that's a shame. When you have time, we'd like to hear the story. Looks like you're getting it home, that's a plus.

 

[boots4]

Bummer, was going to ask where in Oregon you were headed but it doesn't look like you stayed long.

 

[J Mack]

We planned a scenic camping trip over the “Owyhee Uplands National Backcountry Byway” with lots of detours along the way, in an effort to log as many “dirt” miles as possible we headed out our backyard “the desert” and cut through the National Guard training area out in Pleasant Valley area then popped out in Grand View to top off the fuel and start the byway. (58 miles on dirt 6 miles on black top) so far so good! The Byway is a graveled road that is mainly one and one-half lanes wide, this is high desert scenery at its finest, you’ll pass by irrigated hay meadows along Jordan Creek, and then climb into the mountains through stands of juniper and mahogany. You’ll journey across broad, rim-rocked plateaus that are covered with sagebrush and bunchgrass, spotted with aspen, and dissected by the canyons of the Owyhee River. The horizons are framed by the Jarbidge, Bull Run, Santa Rosa, Steens and Owyhee Mountains.



This is the start of our drive on the byway,

Lots of stops and time to enjoy the scenery,

About mid-way through the byway we took a 30 mile detour loop on some abandoned jeep trails in the battle creek area, we had read that there was lots of private land and to be respectful and stay out so we had to hunt and peck our way around on a few sketchy trails with lots of downed trees that were overgrown and washed out. After about three hours we decided to head back to the main trail and pick back up were we left off, unfortunately I didn’t get many pictures back in this area but if you ever get on the Owyhee uplands national backcountry byway and have time this is a worthwhile detour.

Old shaft entrance of some sort.

One of the many old homestead building in this area.

 

[J Mack]

Back on the main trail we headed to the gorges at the north fork of the Owyhee River again lots of stuff worth stopping to take a look at.

Our original plan was to setup camp when we found a secluded spot off the grid toward the end of the first day (basically we didn’t have a plan), as we past the north fork camp grounds we pulled in to check them out and we were pleasantly surprised to find a very nice camp ground with about ten private camp spots and clean bathrooms, nobody was there so we decided to setup camp and stay the night.

In the morning it was looking like it could start raining so we grabbed a quick cup of coffee and packed up camp and got back on the trail toward Jordan Valley, about 30 minutes into the drive it started raining and we were talking about either taking the highway home or continuing back home on the back trails over the Owyhee’s when the defrosters quit working, if you have been following along you’ll know I have fought with this before so I didn’t pay much attention and kept heading to Jordan Valley wiping the glass every three minutes. We stopped at a little market to grab ice and drinks and check things over and come up with a plan for heading home, after a quick check of fluids everything looked good on the pig and the rain was starting to let up so we decided to head back over the Owyhee’s toward Silver City. About 30 miles up a little single track trail we started to smell something burning and stopped to investigate, the A/C compressor had locked up and burned the bearing up on the clutch as well, we were about 10 miles outside of Silver City on a tight rocky trail and I didn’t have anything with me to bypass the A/C compressor and retain the belt for water pump so we just slowed our pace to keep engine RPM’s down and pulled over about every 5 minutes to cool off the clutch pulley, this work well for about two miles then the hot pulley cooked the belt and it left the party. Luckily we take a sat phone with us when travel on these trips on our own and I was able to call a friend to grab my trailer and start heading our way, the plan was I would start to MacGyver something to get us out of this area and in to an area he could get a truck and trailer and we would meet up somewhere on a main trail.

First temporary belt was mostly made from duct tape and old belt parts and it lasted just long enough to fling off and tear off the wiring on the back of my electric fan our about ¼ mile in actual distance.

Temporary belts two through four were still mostly duct tape and some combination of old belt and after jumpering the electric fan this got us about another three miles before temp belt four was gone for good.

Temporary belt five was made from cloth reinforced electrical tape with a bit of duct tape thrown in for good measure, driving slow in an effort to keep engine RPM as low as possible this belt actually worked remarkably well and we drove about 20 miles up and over the ridge and started headed down the main trail quite a ways before ran into our friend with the trailer. All and all a great trip with about 220 off pavement miles and lots of great memories.

I’ll dig into it more but when I installed the new A/C compressor I followed the supplied instruction and did not add any oil, I’ve been reading that quite a few guys have had this bite them in the a$$ and now drain everything out if any and add the required amount of oil on every new compressor install.



What’s left of tape belt number five..

 

[scrapdaddy]

MacGyver at his best! Now you got me worried about my new compressor. Instructions said it came with enough oil for all components. Glad you got it off the trail.

 

[PabloCruise]

Ouch! That sucks it was the AC that brought things to an end.

As soon as I saw the dog bed in the picture, I started wondering how well things were defrosting these days!

Very cool water column you made. Looking forward to hearing more about your diagnostics. Will compression and leak down tests be included?

 

[onemanarmy]

I've often thought about having spare belts to bypass accessories if they became a problem. On a heavily accessorized engine, you'd need to have 3 or 4 of varying, custom lengths though.

 

[abqcruiser]

Beautiful pics! In some of those I'd swear you were driving through New Mexico. Very similar terrain.

 

[J Mack]

Instructions said it came with enough oil for all components. Glad you got it off the trail.

Thanks Ron,

I can’t say for sure if my issue was lack of oil but I wouldn’t be the first that had a new unit shipped and installed without the correct amount of oil. Mine failed right at 9000 miles on the engine but probably only 1500 or less of those had the compressor running, lack of lubrication looks most likely and I will definitely drain the new compressor and refill with the proper amount before I mount it.

I don’t know what I would do if I were you, recharging your system would suck but cleaning all the crap out of the condenser, evaporator and lines then replacing the filter drier, expansion valve and compressor also sucks not to mention the two rolls of tape to get me off the trail.

As soon as I saw the dog bed in the picture, I started wondering how well things were defrosting these days!

Very cool water column you made. Looking forward to hearing more about your diagnostics. Will compression and leak down tests be included?

Defrost is OK when the A/C compressor is working to help remove the humidity, defrost is nonexistent when the compressor $hits the bed.

From what I understand Cummins considers the blow by test a reliable indicator of engine condition and no further test are required, basically the leak down or compression might be able to isolate the issue to a single cylinder but the outcome is the same if blow by exceeds their numbers the engine likely needs to be removed for the inspection and repair.

I still need to clean up this A/C mess before I can get back to the blow by mess, the joys of pig ownership

I've often thought about having spare belts to bypass accessories if they became a problem. On a heavily accessorized engine, you'd need to have 3 or 4 of varying, custom lengths though.

I had an extra belt with me but for obvious reasons it wasn’t much help for this scenario, I am looking into an adjustable length serpentine belt like they have for the emergency repair V-belts but I’m not having much luck with the amount of time I devoted to it so far, I may end up building my own version of emergency repair serpentine belt if I can’t buy what I want.

Beautiful pics! In some of those I'd swear you were driving through New Mexico. Very similar terrain.

Thank you,

Hope to start working our way towards New Mexico some day!

 

[J Mack]

Quick fan update, I was running the late Volvo fan on our last outing and engine temps never got over 200° climbing some long hills with A/C running, outside temps were in the mid 80’s. I still need to drive some more before I commit but I do remember seeing higher engine temps in similar driving conditions with both the Spal and Flex–A–lite fan’s.


All fans measure approximately 15 1/2”, some pictures for reference,






16” Spal fan 2200 CFM

16” Flex–A–lite fan 2500 CFM

Late Volvo post 97 High 3349/ Low 2695 CFM

Early Volvo pre 96 S-Blade type blades, High Speed 3099 CFM / Can’t find info for low.

Volvo dual speed relay,

 

[PabloCruise]

That post-'97 Volvo fan sounds like the bomb. Even on low speed it beats the Spal and Flex-A-Lite, eh? And should be (relatively) easy to find, or easier than the earlier Volvo fans...