Rough Country Lift Issues (2 Viewers)

[ryanwk628]

On my 11/69 FJ40 the PO installed a 4" Rough Country lift when he swapped in rebuilt axles out of a 77. I knew this was a cheapo lift and the shackle angles were off when I purchased it but the springs still had the stickers on them so I figured they would soften up a bit. I was just happy to get the FJ for what I paid. Months later Ive been driving with weight in the back, flexing it with my floor jack and am not much better.

Rough Country customer service is telling me to compress the spring, then snug up the shackle to 70ft-lbs to use the shackle to hold tension on the spring. Kind of defeats the purpose of a shackle but it cant be any worse than now though when there is almost no tangential forcing to the swing of the shackle rather any spring extension is right in the line of action imparting load from pin to pin. Vector mechanics

Ive done some searching, see some mixed reivews and know people have experience with this. It almost seems like while they are all really stiff, they are not the same dimensions. What can I expect out of this lift? Will it ever get to a good angle or are these over curved factory dimension springs that are thus shorter to get taller? Should I start saving now for a new new suspension? Possibly mix and match with a pair from another company in the rear?

Front Shackle Angle

• ryanwk628
• Oct 17, 2016

Rough Country springs

Front

Rough Country Rear Shackle Angle

• ryanwk628
• Oct 17, 2016

Rough Country lift from PO rear shackle angle

Rear and by far the worst. This is what has me worried because you can see that rather than swinging, this shackle is almost in line with the spring and thus would have no where to go except to impart force up into the frame.

Rough Country PITA

• ryanwk628
• Oct 17, 2016

Flexing it. In this photo I have about 300 lbs in the back and my floor jack lifting under one side as far as I can before the other starts to come off the ground. (Goofy roof rack has since been removed)

Rough Country

• ryanwk628
• Oct 17, 2016

PO Installed Rough Country lift spring PN

Rough Country Spring

• ryanwk628
• Oct 17, 2016

PO Installed Rough Country spring

Thanks in advance!

 

[SteveH]

Rough Country customer service is telling me to compress the spring, then snug up the shackle to 70ft-lbs to use the shackle to hold tension on the spring.

I'd laugh, if this statement didn't make me want to cry.

Those springs appear to simply be too short to do the job. If you want to try 'something' you might remove the bottom-most leaf or two, and see if that allows the springs to flatten. I doubt that will solve your problem, however.

 

[ryanwk628]

Rough Country customer service is telling me to compress the spring, then snug up the shackle to 70ft-lbs to use the shackle to hold tension on the spring.

I'd laugh, if this statement didn't make me want to cry.

I felt the same way. I couldnt believe the guy was serious and kept asking him to explain how that would solve the issue. Is there anything I could do? Would it be worth having a local place make a longer top leaf?

 

[ryanwk628]

[Spencer] Yea, that shackle angle is pretty bad. It's been pretty rare for that to occur but I have seen it a couple times before. Some seem to either be slightly lighter or have a slightly different shackle position and our springs end up looking short. You can remove the very bottom spring and it will soften it and allow you to not have that angle and then can be put back in once settled

So Rough Country says its the truck's fault. I cant get them to give me an eye to eye dimension.

Im open to any suggestions on how to remedy this without scrapping the damned thing. For anyone considering Rough Country, as Im dealing with their customer service I would say STAY AWAY.

 

[cruiserkev]

I helped a friend install these same springs about 15 years ago. They never relaxed and after 10 years or so he removed the bottom leaf from each pack plus added extended greasable shackles. Flexes a little better now but still rides rough, guess the name "Rough Country " is very a accurate description. Good luck!

 

[UZJ40]

Springs are relatively cheap in the whole grand scheme of things. Don't cheap out and try to make something work that is easy to replace and has a huge impact on your enjoyment of driving your 40.

 

[Downey]

If memory serves me correctly, when Downey manufactured springs (using NHK, Toyota's spring factory at the time), Downey springs had 9 special features, Rough Country had 3 of those features, Rancho had 2 of those features, Burbank Springs had 0 of those features, Sooooo, your Rough Countries were second best you could buy at the time. I have never checked into Pro Comp springs for a Landcruiser, but I believe they are made by NHK?????

 

[White Stripe]

The rear springs are pretty much crap from those pics. I would scrap them or use the leafs to make yourself some knife blades. The fronts could be salvageable if you wanted. Here is what I would do...with the rear I can think of two options to help yet be economical. Option 1: I would get a custom pack made. Alcan or Deaver, or some other reputable company. Tell them what you want as far as ride characteristics. A pair of custom springs run about 350 a piece. Option 2: By a pair of off the shelf 4" lift fj60 rear leafs, cut off the axle leaf perches and weld on 3-hole adjustable perches, purchase the bushings needed to install fj60 leafs on the back of a fj40(I don't remember exactly which bushings they are but a search will give you the part numbers on mud somewhere) This will give you a longer rear leaf pack, it will flex more, will move the rear axle back 1.5", and should give a nice ride. Option 2 is a bit cheaper, but involves some more fabrication. For the front, the shackle angle is not great for sua. I would take the front shackle bracket, flip it, then install longer shackles(like 6 inches eye to eye). That will help give you a much better shackle angle, increase flex, and soften the ride. Or their is a 3rd option and save up like 1500 bucks and buy a old man emu complete lift kit which rides pretty decent. I am not happy with any of the off the shelf sua lift kits for 40s. I think using lifted fj60 rear leaf packs front and rear and adding or removing leafs to make it level is a good way to get a lift, or have custom packs made front and rear.

 

[ryanwk628]

If memory serves me correctly, when Downey manufactured springs (using NHK, Toyota's spring factory at the time), Downey springs had 9 special features, Rough Country had 3 of those features, Rancho had 2 of those features, Burbank Springs had 0 of those features, Sooooo, your Rough Countries were second best you could buy at the time. I have never checked into Pro Comp springs for a Landcruiser, but I believe they are made by NHK?????

Got any leftover inventory lying around you want to liquidate?

Option 2: By a pair of off the shelf 4" lift fj60 rear leafs, cut off the axle leaf perches and weld on 3-hole adjustable perches, purchase the bushings needed to install fj60 leafs on the back of a fj40(I don't remember exactly which bushings they are but a search will give you the part numbers on mud somewhere) This will give you a longer rear leaf pack, it will flex more, will move the rear axle back 1.5", and should give a nice ride. Option 2 is a bit cheaper, but involves some more fabrication. For the front, the shackle angle is not great for sua. I would take the front shackle bracket, flip it, then install longer shackles(like 6 inches eye to eye). That will help give you a much better shackle angle, increase flex, and soften the ride. Or their is a 3rd option and save up like 1500 bucks and buy a old man emu complete lift kit which rides pretty decent.

I emailed Hell Creek for a price on a pair of 4" rear springs and shipping which came out to $620 to my door. For that money I figured I should save up and do a full kit with shocks like OME (Option 3) and realistically I wouldnt mind coming down from a 4" to a 2.5" provide my tall skinny tires will fit (off hand anyone know what will fit with a 2.5" OME?). Like jetranger said above they are cheap in the grand scheme of things, but it will mean putting some other 40 projects on the back burner. Option 2 is appealing as Im looking for any excuse to use my new Miller 211. I guess Ive got all winter to think about it.

In the mean time Im going to keep pressing Rough Country on why their springs are too short. Maybe the PO has a receipt for the lift. Rough Country told me their springs should run between 43" and 45" installed. The springs I have are a hair under 42 1/4" with 300lbs of cement blocks in the back. My shackle hanger to spring hanger dimension on the frame is about 42 3/8". I will update whatever they come back with.

 

[SteveH]

I realize that old/flat FJ40 leaf springs don't grow on trees in Connecticut, but if you found some old/flat OEM springs, removed the bottom two leaves, and added Rancho's 60612 Wrangler add a leafs ($70+ on Amazon per pair), you would learn a lot about springs, get a decent ride, and some lift. I have done this on 2x FJ40s and am totally happy with the result. There are many paths to satisfaction in the leaf spring world, and not all of them involve huge $$. After you have installed/removed your leaf springs a few times, it won't seem like a big deal. So, keep an open mind on this.

 

[ryanwk628]

I realize that old/flat FJ40 leaf springs don't grow on trees in Connecticut, but if you found some old/flat OEM springs, removed the bottom two leaves, and added Rancho's 60612 Wrangler add a leafs ($70+ on Amazon per pair), you would learn a lot about springs, get a decent ride, and some lift. I have done this on 2x FJ40s and am totally happy with the result. There are many paths to satisfaction in the leaf spring world, and not all of them involve huge $$. After you have installed/removed your leaf springs a few times, it won't seem like a big deal. So, keep an open mind on this.

Thanks! That maybe a good option, even just to get me by until I do something else. If I am going to be changing springs, I may want to come down a little. I will keep an eye out for decent original springs. There are a few guys with 40 parts that pop up on CL around here. Im no spring expert but I did an AAL rear back when I had a Tacoma. Eventually one broke and I ended up buying new springs. That is also where I learned you get what you pay for with suspensions with a front spacer lift I ended up taking out (19 year old logic and budget).

 

[oldmuddog]

ryanwk628, Not sure where you are in Conn. but , Years ago there was a place in New Haven called Superior Spring. Custom made leaf springs. That possibly could be a less expensive fix. Show them what you have and what you're trying to achieve. Perhaps they can utilize some pieces of your leaf packs. BTW, Bilstein shocks .

 

[ryanwk628]

ryanwk628, Not sure where you are in Conn. but , Years ago there was a place in New Haven called Superior Spring. Custom made leaf springs. That possibly could be a less expensive fix. Show them what you have and what you're trying to achieve. Perhaps they can utilize some pieces of your leaf packs. BTW, Bilstein shocks .

Thanks! Im in Newtown so that would be right down 34. Seems like a great option! Superior Spring I was thinking of a temporary fix until I save up to get something like an OME kit but if I can use some of what I have for a more economic option Im all for it! Blisteins are already on my Amazon wishlist

EDIT: Called them. They dont make springs anymore but get their springs for major manufacturers. Not much engineering going on there, all out of a book. Get this, for lifted application they use Rough Country (who still has not returned my email)

 

[MOTOV8R]

Why not just pull the bottom leaf like they recommended? Last expensive option. I had a set of alcans that had just as bad of shackle angle as you have (the front looked like your rear shackle angle). I pulled a leaf and improved greatly. I customized springs on at least 4 of my cruisers to get the height, shackle angle and/or ride that I wanted. Also make sure your shackles are able to move. If they were torqued down in the current position it may be limiting the ability of the spring to flatten out. Good luck.

 

[cuencanolenny]

On my 11/69 FJ40 the PO installed a 4" Rough Country lift when he swapped in rebuilt axles out of a 77. I knew this was a cheapo lift and the shackle angles were off when I purchased it but the springs still had the stickers on them so I figured they would soften up a bit. I was just happy to get the FJ for what I paid. Months later Ive been driving with weight in the back, flexing it with my floor jack and am not much better.

Rough Country customer service is telling me to compress the spring, then snug up the shackle to 70ft-lbs to use the shackle to hold tension on the spring. Kind of defeats the purpose of a shackle but it cant be any worse than now though when there is almost no tangential forcing to the swing of the shackle rather any spring extension is right in the line of action imparting load from pin to pin. Vector mechanics

Ive done some searching, see some mixed reivews and know people have experience with this. It almost seems like while they are all really stiff, they are not the same dimensions. What can I expect out of this lift? Will it ever get to a good angle or are these over curved factory dimension springs that are thus shorter to get taller? Should I start saving now for a new new suspension? Possibly mix and match with a pair from another company in the rear?

Front Shackle Angle

• ryanwk628
• Oct 17, 2016

Rough Country springs

Front

Rough Country Rear Shackle Angle

• ryanwk628
• Oct 17, 2016

Rough Country lift from PO rear shackle angle

Rear and by far the worst. This is what has me worried because you can see that rather than swinging, this shackle is almost in line with the spring and thus would have no where to go except to impart force up into the frame.

Rough Country PITA

• ryanwk628
• Oct 17, 2016

Flexing it. In this photo I have about 300 lbs in the back and my floor jack lifting under one side as far as I can before the other starts to come off the ground. (Goofy roof rack has since been removed)

Rough Country

• ryanwk628
• Oct 17, 2016

PO Installed Rough Country lift spring PN

Rough Country Spring

• ryanwk628
• Oct 17, 2016

PO Installed Rough Country spring

Thanks in advance!

I bought some locally made springs here in Cuenca, Ecuador for my '70. They were overarced and weren't quite as far forward as your rear springs. But a speed bump at speed would rotate the shackle to zero suspension in the rear and were a royal pain to "restore." When I bought the '79 the front springs transferred over, but not the rears. I tried welding a piece of rebar on the shackle to prevent inversion, no success.

 

[-MaTTi-]

In the mean time Im going to keep pressing Rough Country on why their springs are too short.
Rough Country told me their springs should run between 43" and 45" installed.

I measured the Rough Country springs, the results are here: Rough Country 4” spring dimensions

So, the rear spring is about 1180 mm long measured along the longest leaf.

The spring perches distance is 1080 mm from eye to eye, stock shackle is 68 mm (75 mm 9/80->). When the spring is fully compressed it would need that measured 1180 mm length, with stock shackes it will get 1080+68 mm = 1148 mm.

Summa summarum, the rear springs are long enough, even too long with stock bumpstops and stock shackles.

 

[snaggletto]

As an experiment, you can remove the longest leaf that doesn't include a spring eye. This will relax the arch and the lift and see what your shackle angle looks like.

I had to replace the rear shackle hangers, and hanger plates due to rust. I used BTB products found on Ebay. I bolted all this onto my frame with grade 8 bolts and nuts. During this I drilled another hole so that the shackle hanger could be mounted further forward by a bit over an inch. This greatly benefits shackle angle.