Fret not Phil! She is still young yet... a few more trips in ol' betsy and she will be excited every time she sees it!
Oh and on a lesser important note, those compression test numbers are not bad at all!
Builds OL'BETSY ZX: 1991 HZJ77 (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter JDM Journeys
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Oh and on a lesser important note, those compression test numbers are not bad at all!
JDM Journeys
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- #462
Today I ordered a flat puller so I guess technically I'm closer to pulling the pump?
Also, took Frosty Shimo to work today - this is her longest trip in the 77 so far (work is about 70 mins each way this time of year). She was a perfect passenger.
Also, took Frosty Shimo to work today - this is her longest trip in the 77 so far (work is about 70 mins each way this time of year). She was a perfect passenger.
JDM Journeys
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- #463
That was a messy, difficult process but today was a productive one... undid all the hoses etc going to the IP...
Timing belt and all associated bits got pulled, along with rear cover (small weep behind it).
Still need to pull the waterpump.
Then I got after it with my puller, and suddenly there was a pop, and the drive gear let go of its grip and before I knew it, this was sitting on my bench...
I'm sending it *somewhere* this week for a full go-through/refresh.
I've also ordered up some o-rings, seals, gasket, timing belt, tensioner, water pump, and spring. I may as well do it while I'm in there, right? Realized when I parked it that I left it with 3/4 of a tank of fuel, so dropping the tank may have to wait until everything else gets put back together? I have this hankering to look at the pickup in the tank and see just how bad it is, but perhaps the rest of the work will resolve my smoky mornings and necessarily advanced timing?
Fingers crossed! And also I'm hoping the snow is done, because the Mini Cooper isn't quite as awesome in winter on my backroads to work.
Timing belt and all associated bits got pulled, along with rear cover (small weep behind it).
Still need to pull the waterpump.
Then I got after it with my puller, and suddenly there was a pop, and the drive gear let go of its grip and before I knew it, this was sitting on my bench...
I'm sending it *somewhere* this week for a full go-through/refresh.
I've also ordered up some o-rings, seals, gasket, timing belt, tensioner, water pump, and spring. I may as well do it while I'm in there, right? Realized when I parked it that I left it with 3/4 of a tank of fuel, so dropping the tank may have to wait until everything else gets put back together? I have this hankering to look at the pickup in the tank and see just how bad it is, but perhaps the rest of the work will resolve my smoky mornings and necessarily advanced timing?
Fingers crossed! And also I'm hoping the snow is done, because the Mini Cooper isn't quite as awesome in winter on my backroads to work.
ATL Cruiser
GOLD Star
I've got a spare water pump if you want one. Brand new. PM your address.
JDM Journeys
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- #465
Wow! Very kind of you! I've already ordered one though, as part of a package, and its only one province over so shipping isn't terrible. Thanks though!
You're encouraged to come on up and pull mine though. I haven't gotten it out yet. LOL!
ATL Cruiser
GOLD Star
Lol I bought one and then realized several of the bolts were hiding behind the timing belt. Very strange design.Wow! Very kind of you! I've already ordered one though, as part of a package, and its only one province over so shipping isn't terrible. Thanks though!
You're encouraged to come on up and pull mine though. I haven't gotten it out yet. LOL!
Huge congrats on getting your injection pump out! We are all super stoked to see the end of the story.
JDM Journeys
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- #467
Water pump is now out! It wasn't terrible to pull, but did require the alternator bracket to be loosened off (two bolts on left) , as well as a hose guide (up behind the a/c pulley assembly, accessible form the top). The old water pump didn't look terrible, and spun freely, but I'm not planning to go back in there for a while hopefully, so I may as well knock off the maintenance list?
I am planning to drive an hour out of my way tomorrow evening to drop off the inj pump at a reputable shop that is not too far. And then I hurry up and wait for parts and the pump...
I did start cleaning, and found a lot of silicone gasket on the back side of the timing rear cover. I'll have to check the fsm and see where exactly its required, if at all. But it was leaking slightly, so I guess the sealer was no longer doing the job it was supposed to? Belt hadn't gotten contaminated yet, but it would've been just a matter of time.
I am planning to drive an hour out of my way tomorrow evening to drop off the inj pump at a reputable shop that is not too far. And then I hurry up and wait for parts and the pump...
I did start cleaning, and found a lot of silicone gasket on the back side of the timing rear cover. I'll have to check the fsm and see where exactly its required, if at all. But it was leaking slightly, so I guess the sealer was no longer doing the job it was supposed to? Belt hadn't gotten contaminated yet, but it would've been just a matter of time.
JDM Journeys
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- Thread starter
- #468
New wp/gasket!
Then it was time for a new oil seal on the injection pump drive gear. The FSM advised a small screwdriver to lever out the old seal in the case of replacing it in situ.
Nope. That wasn't happening. I ended up firing a small self drilling screw into the seal and then pried it out using a small pry tool. Then it POPPED out so quickly that it fell into the jug of coolant down below. LOL. Isn't that always the way?
When I put my new seal in it went in slightly crooked, even with a seal driver, and I had to go a little further in than I wanted to. FSM says to install it level with the face of the lower cover. But I'm in about another seal's width. I'm pretty sure I'll damage it again to get it out, but it's sealing the inj pump from the other side of the cover, so I'm thinking there isn't really "too close"?
Finally, I put a new seal in the upper back cover of the timing setup, where the camshaft comes through. The previous owner had silconed this all to hell as well, but if the seal is in correctly, and there is sealant where the grooves are made for it, it seems like extra mess to me?
Next up is installing the upper cover with some FIPG and then I wait for the pump to be done. News from the shop on that too. They didn't see any failures inside the pump, so they're going to do all the internal seals etc. then calibrate it, and I should have it back next weekend.
Then it was time for a new oil seal on the injection pump drive gear. The FSM advised a small screwdriver to lever out the old seal in the case of replacing it in situ.
Nope. That wasn't happening. I ended up firing a small self drilling screw into the seal and then pried it out using a small pry tool. Then it POPPED out so quickly that it fell into the jug of coolant down below. LOL. Isn't that always the way?
When I put my new seal in it went in slightly crooked, even with a seal driver, and I had to go a little further in than I wanted to. FSM says to install it level with the face of the lower cover. But I'm in about another seal's width. I'm pretty sure I'll damage it again to get it out, but it's sealing the inj pump from the other side of the cover, so I'm thinking there isn't really "too close"?
Finally, I put a new seal in the upper back cover of the timing setup, where the camshaft comes through. The previous owner had silconed this all to hell as well, but if the seal is in correctly, and there is sealant where the grooves are made for it, it seems like extra mess to me?
Next up is installing the upper cover with some FIPG and then I wait for the pump to be done. News from the shop on that too. They didn't see any failures inside the pump, so they're going to do all the internal seals etc. then calibrate it, and I should have it back next weekend.
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JDM Journeys
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- #469
Pump is back! Finally back from the rebuilder...
But it ain't gonna install itself! Although I wish it could. Man alive what a painful job. The injector pipes are poking you, the drive shaft key won't cooperate, the f/c solenoid wiring harness is trying to escape and meanwhile you're leaning in with this heavy, unbalanced awkward lump, trying to be gentle. Arggg..
I finally decided to rotate the crank a tiny bit in order to get the shaft through the hole (let's not mince words here) and my inspection mirror confirmed that it was settling in place.
Set the timing to 1.08, did up the rest of the bits, reinstalled all the things that had previously been in the way.
New timing belt, tensioner, pulley, cover seals, new access belts all got installed. (Old one was only 50k km ago, but 9 years... so...) Topped up the coolant, and then crossed fingers and toes while it cranked it over.
I've done quite a few timing belts st this point, but I ALWAYS have that moment of doubt just before I turn the key.
Fortunately all rotated smooth and she started ... With a giant smoke show!
So... Lots of air?
Bled at the injectors and then... Test drive!
Way quieter at factory timing spec for sure. First driving up my street it felt like it was hesitating but that went away after a trip round the block. More random white smoke here and there (sometimes with black! Lol) as I drove it some more, but by the time I came back after 10kms or so the white was gone.
Not super duper fast, but zero sounds of nailing. I might be able to advance the timing a couple of degrees more?
So. White Smoke.
Either it's the same issue and simply warmed up and went away or I was purging air, which eventually went away.
You know which scenario I'm hoping for?
But it ain't gonna install itself! Although I wish it could. Man alive what a painful job. The injector pipes are poking you, the drive shaft key won't cooperate, the f/c solenoid wiring harness is trying to escape and meanwhile you're leaning in with this heavy, unbalanced awkward lump, trying to be gentle. Arggg..
I finally decided to rotate the crank a tiny bit in order to get the shaft through the hole (let's not mince words here) and my inspection mirror confirmed that it was settling in place.
Set the timing to 1.08, did up the rest of the bits, reinstalled all the things that had previously been in the way.
New timing belt, tensioner, pulley, cover seals, new access belts all got installed. (Old one was only 50k km ago, but 9 years... so...) Topped up the coolant, and then crossed fingers and toes while it cranked it over.
I've done quite a few timing belts st this point, but I ALWAYS have that moment of doubt just before I turn the key.
Fortunately all rotated smooth and she started ... With a giant smoke show!
So... Lots of air?
Bled at the injectors and then... Test drive!
Way quieter at factory timing spec for sure. First driving up my street it felt like it was hesitating but that went away after a trip round the block. More random white smoke here and there (sometimes with black! Lol) as I drove it some more, but by the time I came back after 10kms or so the white was gone.
Not super duper fast, but zero sounds of nailing. I might be able to advance the timing a couple of degrees more?
So. White Smoke.
Either it's the same issue and simply warmed up and went away or I was purging air, which eventually went away.
You know which scenario I'm hoping for?
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Nice work bud!
I can definitively say from my experience - if it was still air getting IN to the system (rather than working OUT the air bubbles) it would still randomly smoke white and you would get stutters and hesitations even once the engine has warmed up. The fact that this all went away tells me you have no air getting into the system, and it would appear that you have solved this nebulous gremlin that has vexed you for some time. Congrats!!
JDM Journeys
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- #471
Well I wish I could say it was all good, but no such luck.
When I put the pump back in, I set timing at 1.08. Then test drove, as I mentioned above.
The next day I took it on my long rural commute. Streams of white smoke for about 15min (a lot) until warm up, accompanied with sputter, hesitation etc. Also high egts, and black smoke. Same on the way home. That night I advanced the timing by ear, and backed off the fuel a tiny bit. Yesterday morning was better, but about the same as it has been for the last year or so. Lots of smoke for about 30 seconds, along with a stumble, then smoke disappears, things smooth out, and good to go.
Temps are between 0 and 10*C.
Today I went back to basics, after chatting with @Rigster for a bit.
Tried the (new last year) primer. 6 pumps and then there was resistance.
Pulled all the glows (just over a year old and OEM). Under full battery power they visibly glowed at the tip starting around 7 seconds, and stopping increasing glow (at about 1/3 of their length) after about 13 seconds. All consistent.
Then I probed the system itself. 14 seconds at 22v, then dropped to 14v then down to 0.
Everything in the starting circuit seems to be working as it should.
Bled the injectors (again), and saw a tiny bit of bubbling from 3 and 5), I guess left from the new pump? But only because we were looking closely with a lot of light.
So i now have new injectors, rebuilt pump, good (?) glow system. Fuel filter is new. Primer pump is newish. Air filter is new. Cold starts still yield 30 seconds of significant (whitish/gray) smoke and stumble before smoke disappears and everything smooths out. Valves are at the edge of their range, but not totally out of whack. Smoke smells like unburnt fuel, not cloudy coolant sweet...
Any other suggestions? I am running out of avenues to go down... Maybe this is as good as it gets.
When I put the pump back in, I set timing at 1.08. Then test drove, as I mentioned above.
The next day I took it on my long rural commute. Streams of white smoke for about 15min (a lot) until warm up, accompanied with sputter, hesitation etc. Also high egts, and black smoke. Same on the way home. That night I advanced the timing by ear, and backed off the fuel a tiny bit. Yesterday morning was better, but about the same as it has been for the last year or so. Lots of smoke for about 30 seconds, along with a stumble, then smoke disappears, things smooth out, and good to go.
Temps are between 0 and 10*C.
Today I went back to basics, after chatting with @Rigster for a bit.
Tried the (new last year) primer. 6 pumps and then there was resistance.
Pulled all the glows (just over a year old and OEM). Under full battery power they visibly glowed at the tip starting around 7 seconds, and stopping increasing glow (at about 1/3 of their length) after about 13 seconds. All consistent.
Then I probed the system itself. 14 seconds at 22v, then dropped to 14v then down to 0.
Everything in the starting circuit seems to be working as it should.
Bled the injectors (again), and saw a tiny bit of bubbling from 3 and 5), I guess left from the new pump? But only because we were looking closely with a lot of light.
So i now have new injectors, rebuilt pump, good (?) glow system. Fuel filter is new. Primer pump is newish. Air filter is new. Cold starts still yield 30 seconds of significant (whitish/gray) smoke and stumble before smoke disappears and everything smooths out. Valves are at the edge of their range, but not totally out of whack. Smoke smells like unburnt fuel, not cloudy coolant sweet...
Any other suggestions? I am running out of avenues to go down... Maybe this is as good as it gets.
ATL Cruiser
GOLD Star
Have you smoke tested the entire fuel system?
Empty all the lines and run a smoke system through it to find a leak between the pump and the fuel tank.
Or even an easier step would be to put a clear line right next to the fuel pump and see if there are bubbles going in.
Empty all the lines and run a smoke system through it to find a leak between the pump and the fuel tank.
Or even an easier step would be to put a clear line right next to the fuel pump and see if there are bubbles going in.
JDM Journeys
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- #473
I haven't smoke tested, and my once a year cigar isn't likely gonna help. LOL
I did do a clear line test at the FF a while back but it wasn't definitive, since it was a sloppy fit, and was semi opaque anyways. Sooo... I just went out and bought a long length of 3/8 clear hose, and once it cools overnight, I'll fit it in the morning and see what I can see.
Thanks for the reminder. Back to basics, right?
Meanwhile, I turned down the fuel a tiny bit more, and turned up the preload on the ACSD a tiny bit too. Tweaks! My subsequent drive to home depot was actually pretty smooth and uneventful... but it's only been a few hours since it was running, and temps are up above 10*C. Almost shorts weather!
I did do a clear line test at the FF a while back but it wasn't definitive, since it was a sloppy fit, and was semi opaque anyways. Sooo... I just went out and bought a long length of 3/8 clear hose, and once it cools overnight, I'll fit it in the morning and see what I can see.
Thanks for the reminder. Back to basics, right?
Meanwhile, I turned down the fuel a tiny bit more, and turned up the preload on the ACSD a tiny bit too. Tweaks! My subsequent drive to home depot was actually pretty smooth and uneventful... but it's only been a few hours since it was running, and temps are up above 10*C. Almost shorts weather!
JDM Journeys
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- #474
I'm making progress on this: putting a clear fuel line before the pump has been a great way to diagnose air in the system. This little saga was documented in a separate thread just for visibility in case future owners are as useless as me at diagnosing issues. Lol. The thread is here:
forum.ih8mud.com
"The great 1HZ Smoke show": (losing fuel pressure overnight?)
I've been chasing down cold start/white smoke for quite a while, which some of you may be tired of hearing about. I recently had my injection pump rebuilt, but the problem persists. I am in the process of fitting a clear hose on the line right before the injection pump to look for air but I...
forum.ih8mud.com
JDM Journeys
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- #475
And since I'm making mechanical progress, I thought it might be fun to put some lipstick on this pig? The stripe project has begun. Note, I bought stripes for a troopy so I could have enough extra for errors, and to be able to have enough leftover to wrap around the back.
Here is a mock-up - note there is white backing still attached and it's held by masking tape so... Lower your expectations. Lol. Even lower.
Here is a mock-up - note there is white backing still attached and it's held by masking tape so... Lower your expectations. Lol. Even lower.
I look at that and all I can think of is how many different ways I could screw that up.And since I'm making mechanical progress, I thought it might be fun to put some lipstick on this pig? The stripe project has begun. Note, I bought stripes for a troopy so I could have enough extra for errors, and to be able to have enough leftover to wrap around the back.
Here is a mock-up - note there is white backing still attached and it's held by masking tape so... Lower your expectations. Lol. Even lower.
View attachment 3293368
View attachment 3293369
View attachment 3293370
JDM Journeys
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- #477
No bubbles in my "viewport" this morning. Possibly the first time since I installed the clear line. That little line 2/3 of the way back may have been a big contributor.
If it goes another day without any signs I'll probably bleed the injectors again just in case, given that there was definitely air in the system. Then I can get back to fine-tuning the pump...
If it goes another day without any signs I'll probably bleed the injectors again just in case, given that there was definitely air in the system. Then I can get back to fine-tuning the pump...
Awesome sauce! Yeah, I ended up replacing EVERY line in the cruiser except for the hard line on the firewall.
I figured if one is suspect, might as well do them all.
I still have the hard lines from along the frame going back if you end up finding one of those is suspect. You can have them if you need them. They are 12 years newer! Lol.
Mine tested ok, but I had them out anyways, and I already had new ones so I just replaced them.
Way to go my friend, confidence renewed!! I have thought myself going crazy on more than one occasion when I was chasing these gremlins down. Your tenacity encourages us all.
I figured if one is suspect, might as well do them all.
I still have the hard lines from along the frame going back if you end up finding one of those is suspect. You can have them if you need them. They are 12 years newer! Lol.
Mine tested ok, but I had them out anyways, and I already had new ones so I just replaced them.
Way to go my friend, confidence renewed!! I have thought myself going crazy on more than one occasion when I was chasing these gremlins down. Your tenacity encourages us all.
JDM Journeys
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- #479
Oh wow this is painful. If anyone ever decides to tackle stripes, think long and hard about putting it at the beltline. Door handles, badges, intakes... It's all in the way. I think aesthetically it's the right place, but holy crap what a giant pain in the...
Front fender on RHS is done. Working on the door now.
Front fender on RHS is done. Working on the door now.
Easter weekend with the family 
Enjoy! Looking good!
Enjoy! Looking good!
