1974 FJ40 Distributor Issues

[roadstr6]

OP would also have to change his pushrod cover to use big-cap... and track down a coil/ignitor to run the big-cap. I just don't see it as worth it to track everything down when there's a single-purchase distributor available that will outlast the rest of the truck.

Maybe I am biased since I also sell 19100-61080's
OP should buy one from Mark though.

Totally agree. If this were a late 40 or a 60 series truck, the big cap dizzy would be a more attractive option. My response was meant more as general info about the availability of repop parts that are technically NLA for the big cap dizzy and not necessarily a recommendation for the OP.

 

[cptmackay]

I am 99% sure I have the 49 state version. Here is a picture of the base of the carb.

I dont see that port you are talking about. When you say ported vacuum do you mean I need this box thing?

 

[73FJ40]

I am 99% sure I have the 49 state version. Here is a picture of the base of the carb. View attachment 3541441I dont see that port you are talking about. When you say ported vacuum do you mean I need this box thing?View attachment 3541443

IF you have ported vacuum, it would be a little brass tube on the engine side of the carburetor, at the base. If the carb is original, it may not have it.

While I'm all in favor of the new distributor (that's the path I took), have you considered just a simple tune up? IMHO, the first step would rule out the possibility of a bad condenser and/or points (for $30- $40) from a local parts store.

In your post, you mention a picture of the "points", but the picture is of the inside of the distributor cap. The points are actually under the cover plate below the rotor.

Your pictures looking down on the distributor reveal a condenser (cylindrical thing fastened to the side of the distributor, on the engine side of the terminal post) that is dirty enough to be original equipment. There's enough crud on that terminal post and wires that a thorough cleaning is in order.

A tune up is a one banana job FOR SOMEONE WHO HAS EXPERIENCE, but is likely challenging for a first-time mechanic.

 

[65swb45]

IF you have ported vacuum, it would be a little brass tube on the engine side of the carburetor, at the base. If the carb is original, it may not have it.

While I'm all in favor of the new distributor (that's the path I took), have you considered just a simple tune up? IMHO, the first step would rule out the possibility of a bad condenser and/or points (for $30- $40) from a local parts store.

In your post, you mention a picture of the "points", but the picture is of the inside of the distributor cap. The points are actually under the cover plate below the rotor.

Your pictures looking down on the distributor reveal a condenser (cylindrical thing fastened to the side of the distributor, on the engine side of the terminal post) that is dirty enough to be original equipment. There's enough crud on that terminal post and wires that a thorough cleaning is in order.

A tune up is a one banana job FOR SOMEONE WHO HAS EXPERIENCE, but is likely challenging for a first-time mechanic.

View attachment 3541475

I agree with your points (pun intended) but only on a theoretical level.

1. People who are interested in driving and maintaining these relics should, as a practical matter, acquaint themselves with these early mechanical systems.

2. The fact of the matter is that the overwhelming majority of people who are buying these vehicles now are not interested in learning how to maintain these systems. They're mostly interested in just limiting their vulnerability, the same thing I wrote about in the Toyota Trails twenty years ago (yes, it's been twenty years) Hence the visceral attraction of EFI for people who won't (or can't) get down ' into the weeds' to solve vacuum issues that victimize carburetors.

3. While I personally am not bothered by the use of a dwell meter to properly set point gap, I think (no offense intended) that it borders on sadism to suggest that THAT 50 year old OE distributor can even achieve a proper dwell any more. In my experience, the point gap will likely be under .010" before it's even close to dwell. That is a gap at which the points will only last a week or two before they burn.

In forum-speak: YMMV.

 

[73FJ40]

I agree with your points (pun intended) but only on a theoretical level.

1. People who are interested in driving and maintaining these relics should, as a practical matter, acquaint themselves with these early mechanical systems.

2. The fact of the matter is that the overwhelming majority of people who are buying these vehicles now are not interested in learning how to maintain these systems. They're interested in limiting their vulnerability, the same thing I wrote about in the Toyota Trails twenty years ago (yes, it's been twenty years) Hence the visceral attraction of EFI for people who won't (or can't) get down ' into the weeds' to solve vacuum issues that victimize carburetors.

3. While I personally am not bothered by the use of a dwell meter to properly set point gap, I think (no offense intended) that it borders on sadism to suggest that THAT 50 year old OE distributor can even achieve a proper dwell any more. In my experience, the point gap will likely be under .010" before it's even close to dwell. That is a gap at which the points will only last a week or two.

In forum-speak: YMMV.

I don't dispute your assessment. It is apparent that the OP has limited experience in automotive mechanical systems.

Upgrading to the 19100-61080 is let's say a $400 - $500 investment, and if you can't even find the points in a dizzy, you better get an FJ40 expert to upgrade to Pertronix (additional $$$), stab that distributor properly into the oil pump and set the timing.

So it comes down to the OP's wallet. Learn about "antique" points-based ignition systems and fix this or a replacement distributor, or
Buy a replacement distributor upgraded to a pertronix system and drive on blissfully ignorant of how it works.

 

[65swb45]

I don't dispute your assessment. It is apparent that the OP has limited experience in automotive mechanical systems.

Upgrading to the 19100-61080 is let's say a $400 - $500 investment, and if you can't even find the points in a dizzy, you better get an FJ40 expert to upgrade to Pertronix (additional $$$), stab that distributor properly into the oil pump and set the timing.

So it comes down to the OP's wallet. Learn about "antique" points-based ignition systems and fix this or a replacement distributor, or
Buy a replacement distributor upgraded to a pertronix system and drive on blissfully ignorant of how it works.

One of Pirsig’s themes in Zen and The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance.

 

[charliemeyer007]

I really like my straight mechanical advance Delco. I don't mind adjusting points or setting the timing for the conditions. Tweaking the carb etc. can all be done by ear with a few hand tools you could carry in your pocket. Plus they are EMP resistant if not proof.

 

[cptmackay]

IF you have ported vacuum, it would be a little brass tube on the engine side of the carburetor, at the base. If the carb is original, it may not have it.

While I'm all in favor of the new distributor (that's the path I took), have you considered just a simple tune up? IMHO, the first step would rule out the possibility of a bad condenser and/or points (for $30- $40) from a local parts store.

In your post, you mention a picture of the "points", but the picture is of the inside of the distributor cap. The points are actually under the cover plate below the rotor.

Your pictures looking down on the distributor reveal a condenser (cylindrical thing fastened to the side of the distributor, on the engine side of the terminal post) that is dirty enough to be original equipment. There's enough crud on that terminal post and wires that a thorough cleaning is in order.

A tune up is a one banana job FOR SOMEONE WHO HAS EXPERIENCE, but is likely challenging for a first-time mechanic.

Thanks for your suggestion,

I apologize for mislabeling the points, I am a novice mechanic unfamiliar with the world of points and carbuerated systems. One of the reasons I bought this truck was to learn how to work on it.

That may be a good idea to start with. The only reason why I ruled out a tune up is the slop on the rotor and how the inside of the rotor keeps getting chewed up, I figured there had to be something wrong with the spindle the rotor turns on, whereas if it just needed a tune up i figured the rotor would still be in good shape.

 

[Trollhole]

Ditch that distributor. Buy a new Vac advance dizzy. If your carb is not ported for it find one that is. Also replace the coil while your in there. Quit screwing around with a Vac retard distributor they are not worth it. Every one I've run up on my dizzy machine is s***.

 

[Spike Strip]

@cptmackay

Do yourself (and everyone else ) a huge favor and get a $20/year 'Silver Star' subscription so you can post unlimited pix. LINK It will save time and $$$ and get you concise answers to all your future questions - you will have many of them.

The carb vacuum port, if there, will be on the side of the carb closest to the valve cover, next to the Idle Mixture screw. I ask about that because you won't be able to take full advantage of a new dissy if you don't have it. A vacuum port can be added as part of a carburetor rebuild if the rebuilder has the jig set up to properly machine the throttle body, like 65swb45 does. An F engine with a vac-retard distributor is like jogging with a mask on.

The -61080 Distributor comes with points installed and properly adjusted, should you want to keep the points. If you still have the electronic ignition (igniter box on top of the ignition coil on the passenger fender) the points will last a looooong time.

The picture you posted of the inside of the Distributor cap looks like the rotor is hitting some of the terminals, or possibly arching.

 

[73FJ40]

Thanks for your suggestion,

I apologize for mislabeling the points, I am a novice mechanic unfamiliar with the world of points and carbuerated systems. One of the reasons I bought this truck was to learn how to work on it.

That may be a good idea to start with. The only reason why I ruled out a tune up is the slop on the rotor and how the inside of the rotor keeps getting chewed up, I figured there had to be something wrong with the spindle the rotor turns on, whereas if it just needed a tune up i figured the rotor would still be in good shape.

" I also notice some play in the rotor probably 5-10 degrees or so." 5 - 10 degrees suggests rotation. It's supposed to rotate, that's what mechanical advance does. Distributor shaft wear would be evidenced by excessive side-to-side movement. You may have this problem, since it looks like the rotor may be hitting the cap.

The consensus around here is to move on, get a new distributor and be done with it. I don't disagree, it's just that your original posts were a bit confusing.

If you want to learn how to work on it, you should at least become familiar with how your distributor works, because the 19100-61080 has points as well.

 

[cptmackay]

Do yourself (and everyone else ) a huge favor and get a $20/year 'Silver Star' subscription so you can post unlimited pix. LINK It will save time and $$$ and get you concise answers to all your future questions - you will have many of them.

The carb vacuum port, if there, will be on the side of the carb closest to the valve cover, next to the Idle Mixture screw. I ask about that because you won't be able to take full advantage of a new dissy if you don't have it. A vacuum port can be added as part of a carburetor rebuild if the rebuilder has the jig set up to properly machine the throttle body, like 65swb45 does. An F engine with a vac-retard distributor is like jogging with a mask on.

The -61080 Distributor comes with points installed and properly adjusted, should you want to keep the points. If you still have the electronic ignition (igniter box on top of the ignition coil on the passenger fender) the points will last a looooong time.

The picture you posted of the inside of the Distributor cap looks like the rotor is hitting some of the terminals, or possibly arching.

Copy thanks, I think I will hit up Marks off road and get my carb rebuilt and get the vac port added, and order that 19100-61080.

 

[numby]

I really like my straight mechanical advance Delco. I don't mind adjusting points or setting the timing for the conditions. Tweaking the carb etc. can all be done by ear with a few hand tools you could carry in your pocket. Plus they are EMP resistant if not proof.

Running the better 19100-61180 ('77, non-USA 2F-3F) would be pretty easy as well I'd think. They're available for roughly $300 and will run on mechanial advance alone. They run the same points as the 61080 and can be fitted with a Petronix set-up if you'd prefer. Just a thought.

 

[charliemeyer007]

My Delco came with my rig when I got it in 82. I think the top bushing is a little worn judging by the slop in the rotor shaft. I think I can make a new bushing for free. I think there are chinizium copies on Amoron and ebay for less than $100 - need to swap the drive gear!

 

[73FJ40]

Running the better 19100-61180 ('77, non-USA 2F-3F) would be pretty easy as well I'd think. They're available for roughly $300 and will run on mechanial advance alone. They run the same points as the 61080 and can be fitted wite h a Petronix set-up if you'd prefer. Just a thought.

What's the difference between -61180 and -61080?

 

[Spike Strip]

Which points distributor?

So, let's say, for a '78 2F, the only distributor one could put in is a points distributor (brand new). Which one would you put in: the 19100-61080, which is E-1968, vacuum advance and apparently has a decent curve. Or the 19100-61180, which also has vacuum advance and apparently is a good...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[numby]

What's the difference between -61180 and -61080?

As in the post above the 61180 is a little larger - like the size of a '75-'77 distributor so it's a little easier to set the points IMO. It will use the stock or aftermarket '77 cap, rotor, and points. I don't know about the condenser. Simple one wire hook-up but there's a second connector for additional grounding which some have said should be hooked up as well.

Jim C said it has a fairly aggressive mechanical advance curve but I don't know if it's much different than the curve on the smaller 61080. I can run either on my 2F but not with the VA connected on the bigger 61180. Kinda odd but I probably have other issues.

 

[73FJ40]

As in the post above the 61180 is a little larger - like the size of a '75-'77 distributor so it's a little easier to set the points IMO. It will use the stock or aftermarket '77 cap, rotor, and points. I don't know about the condenser. Simple one wire hook-up but there's a second connector for additional grounding which some have said should be hooked up as well.

Jim C said it has a fairly aggressive mechanical advance curve but I don't know if it's much different than the curve on the smaller 61080. I can run either on my 2F but not with the VA connected on the bigger 61180. Kinda odd but I probably have other issues.

Thanks for the details.

I went with the -61080, since its cap and rotor were a match for the stock I had for my original 73 vacuum retard distributor. I also like the octane selector feature for a little more TEQ coolness factor.

 

[Pighead]

Thanks for the details.

I also like the octane selector feature for a little more TEQ coolness factor.

Agreed. and the ability to adjust your timing without having to find a 10mm wrench

 

[Spike Strip]

The 61080 and the 61180 are both very nice, high-quality OEM Distributors. The 61080 is a small cap and the 61180 is a mid-cap. The 61080 has an 'Octane Selector' that's supposed to be a thing for 3rd world crap gas. I've never touched it.

The 61180 comes stock with a 'Rev-limiting' rotor that can be swapped out for a normal one. I have no idea to what RPM it limits. The 61180 is intended as a 3F world replacement dizzy, though will work for any F series engine.

FWIW, you may want to consider a new set of Plug Wires if the aftermarket ones on there are old. New Yazaki OE wires amazingly are also still available from Mr T or various vendors.

Agreed. and the ability to adjust your ** timing** without having to find a 10mm wrench

Is it timing or advance ?