WarDamnEagle
SILVER Star
According to the Sanden Compressor information on the Vintage Air site, you can go up to 90 degrees from vertical but no further. Looks like you are okay but hard to verify from the photo.
Stock A/C (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Trollhole
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That's an early VA bracket.Now you're really testing my OCD.Asking me to choose between an AC system that looks OEM or the OEM block......
Edit: This bracket looks totally homemade but I'm no expert:
View attachment 3874644
Go stock 60, then you can run a Denso AC compressor in the stock 60 series location. Still OEM just a newer block. The blocks aren't tied to the truck by the VIN anyway.
WarDamnEagle
SILVER Star
I can certainly understand all the advantages to a later 2F engine.
Thanks for the information on the bracket also. Looks like this is their latest and greatest:
WarDamnEagle
SILVER Star
Those VA brackets come in two flavors, OEM alternator or GM alternator. Not sure which one that is. Just FYI.
Thanks for the heads up.
WarDamnEagle
SILVER Star
Decided to order the Vintage Air bracket that I linked above. Installed it this morning and I am much happier with the fit, look, and belt configuration. The earlier version VA bracket (according to @samc2447) is a veritable beast of a bracket compared to the new one (see side by side photo). It goes all the way down to the top bolt of the front engine mount.
One big upside to me is the new bracket allows the alternator and A/C compressor to run on separate belts. With the previous bracket they were running on the same belt and I was getting slippage on the alternator pulley. I think most of that issue had more to do with the belt only seeing a small part of the pulley than the fact that they were on the same belt but, regardless, now the belt will wrap around about 2/3 of the alternator pulley.
The A/C compressor belt will run around the crankshaft pulley, the water pump and the compressor, just as shown on the VA suggested diagram. The alternator belt will run around the crankshaft pulley, an idler pulley (where VA shows the Air Pump), the water pump, and the alternator. I could potentially eliminate the idler pulley and run a shorter belt but it looks like I need to run the alternator all the way out on the adjustment to avoid the main bottom radiator hose. Running the idler pulley allows me to change belts and tension without messing with that hose.
One minor concern is the A/C pulley is not in exact alignment with the crankshaft and water pump pulleys. That's probably down to manufacturing tolerances of the bracket and it can probably be tweaked slightly to shift the backside of the compressor over a tad. Not sure it will cause any issue as is though. That's also not the correct length belt and I was just pushing in on it with my foot to take the photo. I doubt the correct belt, properly tensioned will help with the alignment but there is probably some wiggle room in the bolts/bracket holes.
All in all I'm pretty pleased with the bracket. Needs to be painted or powder coated black but that's pretty easy to take care of. Pretty sure it's cut out of stainless so rust won't be an issue regardless.
One big upside to me is the new bracket allows the alternator and A/C compressor to run on separate belts. With the previous bracket they were running on the same belt and I was getting slippage on the alternator pulley. I think most of that issue had more to do with the belt only seeing a small part of the pulley than the fact that they were on the same belt but, regardless, now the belt will wrap around about 2/3 of the alternator pulley.
The A/C compressor belt will run around the crankshaft pulley, the water pump and the compressor, just as shown on the VA suggested diagram. The alternator belt will run around the crankshaft pulley, an idler pulley (where VA shows the Air Pump), the water pump, and the alternator. I could potentially eliminate the idler pulley and run a shorter belt but it looks like I need to run the alternator all the way out on the adjustment to avoid the main bottom radiator hose. Running the idler pulley allows me to change belts and tension without messing with that hose.
One minor concern is the A/C pulley is not in exact alignment with the crankshaft and water pump pulleys. That's probably down to manufacturing tolerances of the bracket and it can probably be tweaked slightly to shift the backside of the compressor over a tad. Not sure it will cause any issue as is though. That's also not the correct length belt and I was just pushing in on it with my foot to take the photo. I doubt the correct belt, properly tensioned will help with the alignment but there is probably some wiggle room in the bolts/bracket holes.
All in all I'm pretty pleased with the bracket. Needs to be painted or powder coated black but that's pretty easy to take care of. Pretty sure it's cut out of stainless so rust won't be an issue regardless.
WarDamnEagle
SILVER Star
So just musing over coffee, is there any reason all of these brackets swap the original position of the alternator and A/C compressor? Looks like it would be simple enough to keep the compressor low with the alternator on top.
WarDamnEagle
SILVER Star
Not sure how helpful this post will be but thought it was worth documenting a few things. All of the VA hardware is SAE and I don't really like the look of separate bolts on the mounting brackets where you can run a longer bolt all the way through. I changed out four of the SAE bolts for (1) M10x125-120mm for the alternator and (1) 130mm of the same for the compressor. I also changed the one short bolt on the AC compressor bracket for a JIS M10x125-40mm. I'm using JIS flange nuts on all of those. As a total aside, an M10 JIS has a 14mm wrench size. I couldn't find one longer than 100mm so the ones I bought take a 17mm wrench. Not a big deal but I'm not sure if JIS goes to 17mm above 100mm or if it is just something McMaster Carr and BelMetric don't carry. Regardless, it all looks a lot better to me now.
The two SAE bolts that are used for the adjustment hold down on both brackets cannot be changed as the brackets are threaded but I did change them out to Grade 8 bolts. Edit: The M10x125-20mm bolts they sent to mount the bracket to the block are not JIS so they have 17mm heads. I changed those out to JIS and both 20mm or 25mm length will work.
I looked up a '77 FJ55 alternator belt and cross referenced that to Gates. It showed a belt with a 15A section, 15mm top width, and 40 degree angle. I then measured the outside diameter of both using a 59" belt (with that same specification) that I had previously used but was now too long with the new bracket. I ordered the two belts below with the longer one for the A/C compressor. The alternator is perfect but I need something just a bit longer for the compressor. I have just enough clearance for the original 6 blade fan but I want to chance to the OEM "with cooling option" 8 blade fan. Unfortunately it's 3/4" diameter larger so I need to gain another 3/8". There's plenty of adjustment left in the A/C. Just need to find a belt between 58 1/4" and 59". Gates doesn't show one with that same cross section but maybe someone else makes one.
The two SAE bolts that are used for the adjustment hold down on both brackets cannot be changed as the brackets are threaded but I did change them out to Grade 8 bolts. Edit: The M10x125-20mm bolts they sent to mount the bracket to the block are not JIS so they have 17mm heads. I changed those out to JIS and both 20mm or 25mm length will work.
I looked up a '77 FJ55 alternator belt and cross referenced that to Gates. It showed a belt with a 15A section, 15mm top width, and 40 degree angle. I then measured the outside diameter of both using a 59" belt (with that same specification) that I had previously used but was now too long with the new bracket. I ordered the two belts below with the longer one for the A/C compressor. The alternator is perfect but I need something just a bit longer for the compressor. I have just enough clearance for the original 6 blade fan but I want to chance to the OEM "with cooling option" 8 blade fan. Unfortunately it's 3/4" diameter larger so I need to gain another 3/8". There's plenty of adjustment left in the A/C. Just need to find a belt between 58 1/4" and 59". Gates doesn't show one with that same cross section but maybe someone else makes one.
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The VA bracket leaves a lot to be desired, and the SAE hardware drives me insane. Fitting the belts is normally never as easy as the ones they list. Those get you in the right range, but download the Gates catalog which has all their belt sizes listed. It's been a while but the green stripes are typically available in the sizes you need.
Note that while the AC compressor does appear to have a good range of motion with their bracket, the actual usable range to get belt tension is extremely narrow, you need to pick a belt that you basically have to pry on and that will allow you to tension it properly.
There are a couple of different fans you can use which are offset just a bit more, but the clearance is still very close.
Note that while the AC compressor does appear to have a good range of motion with their bracket, the actual usable range to get belt tension is extremely narrow, you need to pick a belt that you basically have to pry on and that will allow you to tension it properly.
There are a couple of different fans you can use which are offset just a bit more, but the clearance is still very close.
WarDamnEagle
SILVER Star
I've been through the Gates catalogue. The TR22588 59 3/8" fits "just right" with the compressor adjustment swung all the way out but unfortunately with very little tension. When you look at their catalogue, the exact OD of the TR22578 58 1/4" is 58.31 and the OD of the 59 3/8" is 59.48. Thinking something around 59" OD exactly would give enough clearance and enough tension.
I haven't looked at other brands yet. Engine is headed to Mosley Motors next week so I'll probably put this issue on the back burner for a while. Worst case I just run the 6 blade fan.
For non-clutch fans you can have a spacer machined or trim the fan. I'll see if I can dig up a part number for the other fan
PabloCruise
SILVER Star
I prefer to use JIS hardware as well.
I have the same on RHD fj56 and rare compressor with 2 inline stroke with pistons. I thought it handmade mount - thank you . As I see compressor mount horizontally. Will try to install it.
