What constitutes a good number for fuel trim? And which fuel trim numbers do you use on torque pro?
When cleaning the radiator, do you just blast a jet of water at the fins? Or is there some special method?
I'm getting fuel smells and long venting (60 sec +) after a big steep slow climb OAT 97F, 1/2 tank of ethanol free 88octane, 7-9k elevation
196K miles 2003
ECT reached 215F
Running new fan clutch at 195K
coolant flush, new water pump and timing belt at 179K
orig radiator, cap and t-stat I believe.
Images of stats.
View attachment 2386866View attachment 2386865
So this is a prime example of engine (ECT) running to hot and fuel boiling. This is great anecdotal evidence and data. Thanks for posting!
Whereas it not a bad idea to replace radiator. I'd be inclined to first clean the fins of radiator, see what outcome is. I'd also replace radiator cap and thermostat with new OEM.
You may also want to reflush using BG Flush & Cool kit. Make sure you drain block drains and examine flush distilled water for color and practicals. This will yield clues of health of radiator. Use compressed at ~10 PSI ,to blow out system before filling with Toyota coolant. That way you'll get most distilled water out. IIRC 03 is Toyota SLL "Pink". Personally I prefer "Red" LL at 50/50 distilled water. But I stick with whatever Toyota OEM recommends for the year.
I've a 90 degree wand for my HP washer. I blast water from inside out, from between fan blades. I pull #1 skid and wash between all radiators. I blow water in from front also. I repeat and repeat and repeat as many times as it take.
LTFT are what engine is doing to correct STFT. Yours are okay. We see LTFT 2.5 to 5.5 often. Closest to zero is goal of ECU. The 5.5 indicates bank 2 running a little lean (hot). ECU is correcting the baseline of STFT to richen the mixture, in your screen shot.
I've a 06LC w/192K I just bought. In reading history I found PO complained of engine temp raising when both front and rear AC on. Toyota Dealership diagnosed with clogged radiator fins. Recommended new OEM radiator, $600 for the US spec Radaitor plus coolant and labor. They should have added...
forum.ih8mud.com
UPDATE: Today we ran Mineral Creek (slow rocky uphill that seemed a lot rougher that last year, lots of spotting) to Engineer Pass (12,800ft) then later to California Pass (12,960ft) all with normal ethanol gas. Zero issues. Engine temp never got above 190. I kept the engine on at all passes. Zero gas smell. Night and day difference from last year! Last year in colder weather I had boiling fuel on half dollar which is nothing. Tomorrow is Ophir and Imogene and I’ll keep everyone posted. At this point I’m not even going to try non ethanol fuel.
Now that too is great anecdotal evidence and data. Thanks for posting!
This is what I'd expect to see ECT at. It speaks volumes, as to health of your engine and it's cooling system. Nice JOB! It also show this is not a systemic problem with all 100 and 200 series. Even a heavy aromed like yours. Which is what I'm seeing time and time again with my anecdotal evidence of manly stock rigs.
BTW. Do you have Slee bell pan armor or any brand?
To be clear, I think pressure is important in that the tank should disallow high pressure (pressure should remain very low). Higher pressures keep the hydrocarbons in liquid form at higher temps, but I think the OEM system is only designed to hold a very small internal tank pressure roughly equal to the vapor pressure of typical fuels - far less than people are experiencing when they start to get prolonged, violent venting out of the gas filler area.
If the tank allows high pressures, then the last resort safety valves will vent (gas cap and the filler vent thing). I believe the OEM purge system is a part of what is meant to prevent the pressure from ever building high enough to trigger the last resort safety valves.
I thought about this more and I think common temps on the highway in hot climates are 160F+. The fuel system should work flawlessly with fuel temps at a minimum at 160F. Ambient temps 10" above the road surface in rush hour traffic in Phoenix in summer are probably 130-140F+. Unless folks have fuel temps in excess of 200F, I just can't see temp being the culprit here. A contributor that likely highlights the problem, yes, but not the root cause. That pressure should be managed by something other than the safety vents.
Pressure in tank and atmospheric pressure, is reason I replaced the FPR. But it still just a hunch on my part. Thinking was: FPR may be one more factor in high fuel tank pressure. That to much returning fuel to fast, may overwhelm increasing pressure..
I do agree with you on OAT and blacktop radiant temps. These rigs can handle it, when basic are inline as they should be. Or we see this in every 100 & 200 series and many fires. DOT would have had a field-day! But for sure, OAT and radiant heat does contribute to fuel, cabin and drivetrain temps. But should not ever cause fuel boiling to point of overwhelming EVAP or causes a dangerous condition. At least not on this planet as we know it today!
One only needs to keep up PM as spelled out in OM & FSM. Which also included washing radiator fins, remove dirty & debris. Than this should only be issue if a failure occurs. Which is rare if OM followed, like "do not fill gas tank past auto shut off of pump handle". That was clearly spelled out in the 2003-up OM from Toyota. I'd add, that fuel boil building creating excessive pressure, may damage EVAP components.
My question has always been. Does off road modifying vehicle cause issue with EVAP. By reducing air flow, retaining heat and heavy weights work drivetrain harder.???
But We're seeing rigs like
@abuck99 and
@guardcompany built. The ECT are just fine. They do not have fuel boiling issues of any concern. One of the most off-road built rig I've ever had the pleasure of working on, belongs to
@gungriffin. Yet he has no fuel issue. Interesting, His TRD package, has a 160F thermostat and he run what I'd call too cool for a stock engine.
Whereas
@J1000 is indicating he at least had fuel boiling issue, before installing many heatshield in the system, even a fuel cooler. Some cool stuff...
But that is a modified fuel system engine and not the norm in most built rigs. His data is valuable, but for very different reason. He points to the many in mud with this issue and engine stalls. In places like LV NV. But the key in all cases: Is the vehicle up to spec with PM. My anecdotal evidence says 90%, of all 100 series are not up to spec. 100 series are so over engineered, they'll keep running under very poor maintenance condition, that would kill most vehicles. But just because it gets down the road, does not mean it's fit. I can assure you, my anecdotal evidence of more 100 series than I can remember inspecting and working on. Most need a lot of work. But then it's the sick ones that come to me the most. Yet even so, most do not have the fuel boiling issue. BTW, all I see are running blended fuels.
I ran all the same trails last week, most of them with full tank or nearly full tank every day vs half tank last year. I was using 87 or 88 octane fuel with stated 10% ethanol content. I never had any boiling issues, didn't have any staining on the side of the truck but I did have an occasional wiff of fuel vapor and some marginal pressure at the gas cap; but it was quite random. I don't have any heat shielding, or fuel line wrap, still have original canister. Some 12,000+ trails were fine and others even at lower elevation produced some vapor smell. In previous years I left my engine running constantly at elevation, this year I shut my engine off on several high passes as a test and didn't have an issue to report. I think it might be due to how quickly you ascend altitude. Corkscrew rises pretty quickly and I noticed some vapor smell at the 1/2 way stop 10,000ft +/- before you climb up to the pass. Full tank of 88octane 10% ethanol blend ascending Black Bear and no vapor smell or pressure indication. I will say that the ambient temps were cooler this year than last year- avg 50's-60's at higher elevations last week and rainy vs 70's + and sunny last year. Engine temps climbing passes were 186-190 and trans temps never exceeded 132F. On down hill slopes of trail decnends, lowest recored engine temp was 179 and lowest trans temp was 107! I do have fan clutch mod in place which moves a fair bit more air at low speeds and rpms up to 3,000rpm +/-.
Hwy driving through Salida (7,000 ft +/-) 80's ambient temps ( had been driving for several hours, I noticed some vapor smell and my gas cap self-venting. Removing the gas cap very warm moist vapor escaped, it condensed on my hand quickly, while not overly pressurized but I could feel it lightly outgassing warm vapor for several minutes. Engine load, heat soak from road has some impact. Turn up your volume and if you listen closely to the video you can hear my fuel cap venting:
Great data, THX!
See there you go; 186 -190f ECT in a heavy climbing passes. A well tuned and maintained heavy built 100 series. No unusual temps issues climbing off road passes at high altitude... Nice job my friend!
So it seems built is not big issue, even with full belly pan. May be adding 3f to ECT. I do recall you did the fan clutch mod. That may be helping you keep ECT in line.
Undoubtedly normal US fuel blend is a factor. But still in properly maintained rig, it should not really be factor, that's of high concern.
You should be able to keep those temps w/both AC running, IMHO. Which is hotter ECT, than I'd expect in a stock rig. But not so much as to overwhelm the EVAP.
Will be interesting to see you swap out FPR. See if that minor tank pressure "Removing the gas cap very warm moist vapor escaped" reduces/improves.
I think when these occurrences happen- its important to file a NTSB Vehicle Safety complaint to record the concern.
Get resources and info about staying safe on America’s roads. And, find out if there’s a recall on your car or how to report a vehicle safety problem.
www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov
I think it's import he tune this puppy. Tune includes inspecting all lines and coolant system service. I bet I'd find a ton of work to do on this one.
