From Hundy to 2024 LC 250? (2 Viewers)

[MongooseGA]

@MongooseGA I don't think we're disagreeing - at all. I'm just pointing out that WE are proving to be an insignificant buyer segment. What we want - the space, the V8, the lockers, the quality, etc. doesn't check the boxes for Toyota, or any manufacturer for that matter. Toyota has proved this to themselves.

We all talk about the great Land Cruisers the Aussies get. But THAT is a viable market for Toyota. Despite being 1/12th the population of the U.S., Australia buys 4x the number of Land Cruisers.

When Toyota cancelled the Land Cruiser for the U.S. market, my first thought was "Well, that makes sense." That they're bringing any Land Cruiser back, I see as pretty lucky - given how few they sold here in the past 15 years.

Lucky how? The only way it's lucky is if you just HAVE to drive a car called Land Cruiser, no matter what it is. I don't see it as lucky to use a name that is recognizable for certain features (as you just mentioned), and then stick it on to a vehicle that has none of those features. I see it as an insult and as Toyota hoping nobody will really notice. Don't taint a good brand with something inferior just to sell more of the lesser vehicle. That's literally resting on laurels.

I wouldn't have any real opinion if they'd just called it a Prado. Even Ford knew enough that when they revived the Bronco brand, which people really loved, they kept the 'full-strength' truck as Bronco, and the girls' version as 'Bronco Sport'. Toyota wasn't that good here. They took a Freelander and named it a Range Rover. This is why Bronco is a hit, but GTO and TrailBlazer are/were absolute duds.

 

[Bennymic]

If they wanted a Land Cruiser in the U.S. they should have just brought in the 70 series with cloth, no sunroof and a stick shift. The vehicle was ready to go. It would have sold well at roughly this price point.

Wouldn't meet FMVSS IIRC. And there isn't the demand. I'd love a ute 79 series with a v8 diesel. But the big 3 made the law that you pay 25% tax on importing trucks. Thus the Tacoma and Tundra.

 

[Manhattan]

But you see the paradox, right? "Don't taint a good brand..." So kill it? The Land Cruiser, as we know it, is DEAD in the U.S. market. It just is. Americans don't want a $100,000 off-road-biased V8 SUV, nor will they buy a defeatured, a.k.a. "poverty pack" $80,000 off-road-biased V8 SUV. The numbers don't lie.

 

[MongooseGA]

But you see the paradox, right? "Don't taint a good brand..." So kill it? The Land Cruiser, as we know it, is DEAD in the U.S. market. It just is. Americans don't want a $100,000 off-road-biased V8 SUV, nor will they buy a defeatured, a.k.a. "poverty pack" $80,000 off-road-biased V8 SUV. The numbers don't lie.

Then yes, they should have left it gone/dead from this market. 2 generations of a watered down truck being sold as a Land Cruiser and the brand will turn into 'meh', instead of having a well-regarded status. 1-2 generations of not having an LC here and people would be clamoring for one again in the future. Bringing the 250 here and selling it in the exact same space they will, but calling it anything else, would not have impacted its sales. It would have been a budget-friendly off-roader offered by the company who makes the venerable Land Cruiser.

There are myriad examples of manufacturer building cars to maintain a brand identity and to satiate their most loyal buyers. There is a reason that Porsche still makes the 911 despite the Cayman (and earlier, 944) being an objectively better car. Same with the Corvette. Same reason Ford wasn't able to replace Mustang with the Probe as they intended. There is a reason the GTO, TrailBlazer, Eclipse, or any other revived nameplate slapped on to a not-great vehicle are failures. You can always sell more cheaper cars by using your flagships to showcase tech and quality. Mercedes sells significantly more C-classes to women than S-class to anyone. For Toyota, that vehicle IS the Land Cruiser. It is their magnum opus, it is what the rest of the manufacturers in the world (or in our case, our market) point to and say "That's what we have to compete with". The brand has been built over decades of incredible vehicles, and there are plenty of people who will only drive LC platforms for this reason. That won't exist now. The brand in this market will just be 'bigger 4Runner'.

Don't get me wrong, the 250 will sell better than a 200. But it's at the cost of its own brand name, and at the cost of 4Runner (which is still going to exist!) IMO, Toyota is pretty arrogant to try it.

Coming from Toyota in 2025: The new 2000GT. It's everything you've always loved about the original 2000GT, except it's a FWD 2-door Prius platform. Lucky us we get to have a 2000GT again.

 

[Jfcol]

Slightly ironic, to me at least, that the 100 series forum is debating the merits of a cheaper version of the Land Cruiser. I’m making an assumption here that most of us waited and purchased ours with some years and miles on them. Both because we didn’t want to pay for a big dollar luxury vehicle and because we wanted to modify them and not worry about thrashing around off road. We are some of the most diehard Toyota/Land Cruiser owners out there. If most/many of us aren’t the target for another $100k LC, who is?

 

[MongooseGA]

Slightly ironic, to me at least, that the 100 series forum is debating the merits of a cheaper version of the Land Cruiser. I’m making an assumption here that most of us waited and purchased ours with some years and miles on them. Both because we didn’t want to pay for a big dollar luxury vehicle and because we wanted to modify them and not worry about thrashing around off road. We are some of the most diehard Toyota/Land Cruiser owners out there. If most/many of us aren’t the target for another $100k LC, who is?

People who buy LCs brand new and leave them at the secondary and tertiary homes, or they get handed to each child as they get older. LCs are heirlooms, even to people who don't off-road them. Additionally, plenty of people who buy an LC new, use it as a family hauler for 10-ish years, then move it to trail truck and replace with most recent model at the time.

Wrangler is really one of the only other comparable vehicles in that regard. There's a really interesting statistic about the average household income of a Wrangler buyer. It's significantly higher than you'd expect because so many wealthy people buy them as toy cars for themselves and their kids. LC is similar, just not cheap.

 

[jLB]

Slightly ironic, to me at least, that the 100 series forum is debating the merits of a cheaper version of the Land Cruiser. I’m making an assumption here that most of us waited and purchased ours with some years and miles on them. Both because we didn’t want to pay for a big dollar luxury vehicle and because we wanted to modify them and not worry about thrashing around off road. We are some of the most diehard Toyota/Land Cruiser owners out there. If most/many of us aren’t the target for another $100k LC, who is?

People who buy LCs brand new and leave them at the secondary and tertiary homes, or they get handed to each child as they get older. LCs are heirlooms, even to people who don't off-road them. Additionally, plenty of people who buy an LC new, use it as a family hauler for 10-ish years, then move it to trail truck and replace with most recent model at the time.

Wrangler is really one of the only other comparable vehicles in that regard. There's a really interesting statistic about the average household income of a Wrangler buyer. It's significantly higher than you'd expect because so many wealthy people buy them as toy cars for themselves and their kids. LC is similar, just not cheap.

Well, I did buy a 94 LC new (and outfitted & off roaded) and held onto it for 10+ years.

In 2004, I got a bit of sticker shock from the 04 LC, so I replaced the 94 LC, with an 04 T4R Limited 4x4 V8 (and hated it).

Apparently I whined enough to get a 98 LX hand me down from my father. It was T-boned, so I bought an 06 LX (new).

2014, my kid hated the T4R, and wanted my 06 LX. I test drove a new 200, and vetoed the idea. Bought a used 00 LC for him instead.

2019, I bought a used and abused 20 year old, 200+k mile, 99 LX, from its original owner, as a “spare” vehicle.

Saying that everyone on this board bought their vehicle as a cheap used high mileage off roader, probably isn’t as accurate as you think.

I know a number of families in my neighborhood, where “the wife” gets the new LC/LX, and the husband gets “the old worn out” LC/LX after ~5 years or so, and one of the kids gets it as a their first car 5-10 years later.

My 94 80 series was ~$36k new. In 97 or so, when I was going through a divorce, I remember ~$55k. My 06 LX was ~$70k new. I wonder what those prices convert to in 2023 $?

 

[Sventvkg]

Again. All you have to do is blow out your hundred series and put all the tech new features in the lockers on the front or back to whatever you want to them or upgrade to a 200 series and do the same. You could drive them for the rest of your life probably. I don’t know what the problem is here. Everybody needs to have new and shiny things? I’ve had all those, and now I don’t have them anymore and I drive a 2005 LX 470. I also don’t have debt and can If I choose to, customize this car and make it better than new if I desire (which I Do Not). It serves its purpose for me. I’m 52 and I have no doubt that I could if I choose to drive this vehicle the rest of my life.

 

[MongooseGA]

Well, I did buy a 94 LC new (and outfitted & off roaded) and held onto it for 10+ years.

In 2004, I got a bit of sticker shock from the 04 LC, so I replaced the 94 LC, with an 04 T4R Limited 4x4 V8 (and hated it).

Apparently I whined enough to get a 98 LX hand me down from my father. It was T-boned, so I bought an 06 LX (new).

2014, my kid hated the T4R, and wanted my 06 LX. I test drove a new 200, and vetoed the idea. Bought a used 00 LC for him instead.

2019, I bought a used and abused 20 year old, 200+k mile, 99 LX, from its original owner, as a “spare” vehicle.

Saying that everyone on this board bought their vehicle as a cheap used high mileage off roader, probably isn’t as accurate as you think.

I know a number of families in my neighborhood, where “the wife” gets the new LC/LX, and the husband gets “the old worn out” LC/LX after ~5 years or so, and one of the kids gets it as a their first car 5-10 years later.

My 94 80 series was ~$36k new. In 97 or so, when I was going through a divorce, I remember ~$55k. My 06 LX was ~$70k new. I wonder what those prices convert to in 2023 $?

$36k in 1994 ~= $75k today
$55k in 1997 ~= $104k today
$70k in 2006 ~= $105k today

They've always been expensive. But they're not so expensive when you consider buyers that hang on to them for years, decades even, and that they're passed down to kids (and grandkids!) all the time. You could buy a similarly expensive luxury sedan in any year, any it would be worth a fraction of the comparable LC after 5, 10 years.

 

[NE Snowman]

1-2 generations of not having an LC here and people would be clamoring for one again in the future.

Truth, people don’t appreciate what they have access to until it’s gone.

They need to ditch the name and call it what it is, a Prado.

Most here appreciate simple NA V8 power and you can’t put it in an MPG field. It’s smooth, its simple, it’s proven. Not sure we’ll ever get the 90s-00s Toyota back, too many safety, ecu, emissions, blah blah on vehicles.

 

[MongooseGA]

My 100 has 325k on it as of last week. I would drive it anywhere, right now. No concerns, no second thought.

Try that in a high-stressed turbo 4-cylinder with a hybrid battery in 10-15 years. LOL! Shoot after watching the first year issues with the new Tundra powertrain, try it in 1-2 years! Good luck!

 

[NE Snowman]

Slightly ironic, to me at least, that the 100 series forum is debating the merits of a cheaper version of the Land Cruiser. I’m making an assumption here that most of us waited and purchased ours with some years and miles on them. Both because we didn’t want to pay for a big dollar luxury vehicle and because we wanted to modify them and not worry about thrashing around off road. We are some of the most diehard Toyota/Land Cruiser owners out there. If most/many of us aren’t the target for another $100k LC, who is?

There’s people in the 300 series forum here.

When you account for inflation like above, it’s not far off.

Toyota has a die hard fan base of newer LC buyers. Their heirlooms to families that understand them and appreciate them. They are mostly stabled with the same family for 10+ years.

Even at 20 year old 100 series owners I’d bet most of us have no problem swallowing larger repair bills and more expensive parts because 1) Toyota OEM, 2) we know the truck will continue down the road.

15 years ago I would have trusted newer tech, I liked the idea of more efficient cars and more tech in the car. After owning 2 4cyl turbo vw, and a 2UZ. I won’t go back, I trust my gas eating v8 to get me somewhere. The 4cyls gave me travel anxiety. Fun quick and efficient they are, left me stranded they have. Also less tech the better, makes fixing and upgrading much easier.

 

[RND1]

It's clear we all love our Hundys. I'm jelly of you guys that don't have to deal with tin worm so your rigs can live on forever. I'm hoping the 250 is a worthy successor. Only time will tell as they make their way to dealerships so we can see and drive them. I like the new design - far more than the T4R, Sequoia, Tundra and Taco. I like the round headlights and cloth seats. It needs some 33 KO2's. And a galvanized frame.

I assume everything will be scaled down to hit the $55K - $65K price point, and I'm okay with that. Sure the jury's out on the 4 cyl turbo hybrid, but I'm going to give Toyota the benefit of the doubt as they've been doing the hybrid thing for a long time now and Prius are routinely getting to 300k miles. Hopefully I can get past it sounding like a sewing machine.

 

[jLB]

Most here appreciate simple NA V8 power and you can’t put it in an MPG field. It’s smooth, its simple, it’s proven. Not sure we’ll ever get the 90s-00s Toyota back, too many safety, ecu, emissions, blah blah on vehicles.

I’m close to retirement, and I’m half tempted to pick up a restored 60/62 series for simplicity/reliability , not as smooth/refined as a 100, no V8, and it would probably cost near 250 series prices. No, it wouldn’t replace any of my 100 series.

 

[GTV]

I agree that it’s a sh!tty marketing trick by Toyota. I also think it’s the best looking Toyota 4x4 since… the 100 series. Instead of the Land Cruiser being its own unique machine, it’s been placed as a trim level on the grade below.

My ‘07 LC was $60k… bottom of the barrel since it didn’t have nav. And it’s still a very luxurious SUV. That’s just ≈$10k less than the LX which had far more accoutrement for the money. I think if you have $100k to spend on a car, you could probably find $120k in the sofa cushions for something much better equipped. It’s amazing to me that the LC sold as well as it did. You had to be stubborn or stupid to choose the LC, and especially so now that LC’s cost more . It’s a shame they didn’t offer the 100 in lower trims here, to spread that $10k gap out to a $15-$20k gap- without stepping on the Sequoia’s toes as it is a different vehicle entirely. It would have entered the enthusiast segment, think TRD Pro 4Runner of today. I’d like to think they could have moved some vehicles. Turns out, “Stealth Wealth” isn’t a real great idea for success in the US.

 

[MongooseGA]

Toyota's Newest Land Cruiser Is Sweet, but It's Not the Icon

The 2024 Land Cruiser is going to be a sales success. But it's not the vehicle most people envision when you say the words 'Land Cruiser.'

gearjunkie.com

 

[BullElk]

The biggest problem for me if these new JV Cruisers catch on and take any of the LX market is there will be less used LXs available for peasants like myself.

 

[RND1]

Toyota's Newest Land Cruiser Is Sweet, but It's Not the Icon

The 2024 Land Cruiser is going to be a sales success. But it's not the vehicle most people envision when you say the words 'Land Cruiser.'

gearjunkie.com

I think that's a fair assessment of the J250 - pros and cons. According to the LC Family Tree, the J70 also falls in the "LC light" category yet is often described as having legendary build quality with few luxuries. I'm hoping the J250 is more J70 than Prado, but based on this author's review it looks to be a hybrid of the two.

 

[Chrisek]

04 LC100 here, I’m thinking of a final year lc200 myself, keeping the 100 of course.

 

[NE Snowman]

04 LC100 here, I’m thinking of a final year lc200 myself, keeping the 100 of course.

I find myself not moving to a 200, it just felt so much bigger and bulky. The power increase was nice don’t get me wrong, I just can’t justify needing it.

Maybe put a 5.7 in a 100? Vrrooom