From Hundy to 2024 LC 250? (1 Viewer)

[shane431]

The only offense is that you've attempted some kind of condescending 'gotcha' but in reality you provided nothing of substance. Your initial post was full of logical fallacies that show you weren't really prepared to have a discussion beyond asserting yourself as edgy and ignorant. "Sounds like these guys don't know anything about big business, heh heh!!"

I'm someone who has worked professionally in the auto industry, am degreed in marketing, studied in psychology, and am still actively self-employed in an industry that is very supply and demand oriented. I understand business, especially when it comes to sales.

Nah, man. You don't understand big business. There's a massive value to brand loyalty, and there's a massive amount of psychological knowledge/understanding that goes in to maintaining that brand loyalty. As I mentioned earlier, this is the reason the Mustang still exists, or the 911. It's the reason that when Chevy brought back the Camaro after a hiatus, the name didn't get put on to a Cobalt. It's why Ford will sell you a "Bronco", which is closer to scratching the nostalgic itch of the original, and a "Bronco Sport", which is more appealing to a broader market but still is not the real-deal. It's the reason the new 'Mitsubishi Eclipse' and Chevy 'TrailBlazer' and recent Pontiac GTO are flops. Big businesses, who absolutely do get things wrong, decided to take established brand names, names capable of pulling in buyers based on nostalgia, and put them on to vehicles that were not adequate to carry that name. Toyota wants to sell more SUVs, that's great. They could do just that by selling the 250 as a Prado, and leaving the full-flavored LC out of this market for a while. It would have captured all the same down-market sales and built up an expectation/demand for the return of the real LC in the future.

Yes, Toyota is very much interested in the secondary market. They aren't only thinking of selling $100K LCs to original owners. They're wanting to tout resale value. The LC has, for decades, been the halo car. It's the vehicle people aspire to when they buy their first 4Runner or whatever. It's the quality, overbuilt car that keeps people in the Toyota family. You can test out new tech in the flagships and then carry it down to lesser models. That's how SRS seat belts, ABS, and airbags all exist. Thank the S-Class for that. Do you know how many times Mercedes has moved their S-class down market? None times. They build down-market cars to capture down-market sales. You don't castrate your flagship brand in an attempt to capture more sales. That's objectively stupid.

Your points were debated already. Yes, the 250 will be a much better seller. If that's the only true point you can make, great... Everyone clap at this guy. He's figured it all out.

Please correct me if I'm making the wrong assumption but you seem to be saying that Toyota has tarnished the Land Cruiser name by releasing the 250 with the nomenclature of Land Cruiser which is of lesser quality, reliability, capability, powerful, etc....... and this will in the long run hurt the Toyota and LC brand/legacy even if they sell more vehicles?

I guess time will tell.

 

[newbielx470]

Yesterday Toyota issued (yet another) recall on the new Tundra, for fuel leak this time. Now I have even less confidence about the LC250's reliability

Maybe it's my false impression, but is the Tundra recall becoming almost monthly, and approaching Stellantis' frequency?

Toyota recalls: Toyota Tundra, Hybrid pickups recalled for fuel leak, fire concerns

Toyota is recalling about 168,000 of its 2022 and 2023 model year Tundra and Tundra Hybrid pickups for a fuel leak issue and possible fire concerns.

www.usatoday.com

 

[OwnerCS]

Let's not turn into the Packard Club. I see a similarity happening between the junior and senior owners.
The juniors were mass-produced using new efficient manufacturing techniques and sold well in the medium price range in spite of the great depression.
The seniors were well respected by the community but unable to produce a profit.
A management change sent the company screaming back to the old ways to regain the original cache of the cars produced before the juniors saved the company.
We all know the final chapter of the story. Don't get me wrong, there is no comparison between Toyota and a tiny automaker from Detroit.

My point here is that unless you are a member of the club, or studied the different models, does anybody here know the difference?

 

[BullElk]

Yesterday Toyota issued (yet another) recall on the new Tundra, for fuel leak this time. Now I have even less confidence about the LC250's reliability

Maybe it's my false impression, but is the Tundra recall becoming almost monthly, and approaching Stellantis' frequency?

Toyota recalls: Toyota Tundra, Hybrid pickups recalled for fuel leak, fire concerns

Toyota is recalling about 168,000 of its 2022 and 2023 model year Tundra and Tundra Hybrid pickups for a fuel leak issue and possible fire concerns.

www.usatoday.com

Made in NONJapan Tundra correct?

 

[Chrisek]

So you think if they brought back the LC300 to the US with a $100K sticker it would sell like hot cakes? Toyota had to make a change. They choose to make the LC more affordable and improve mpg with im guessing a goal of selling a lot more than 7,000 vehicles a year. Their target is the whole US not just Ih8mud.

To correct your point, Toyota’s target for the LC80/100/200 and now 300 is the whole world. Toyota USA has always been a small player in these vehicles. The Prado has always been available in the rest of world as a durable more affordable Land Cruiser (in USA as GX and 4Runner) and will fill that role here as USA’s main Land Cruiser while the 300 is a Lexus here (LX600) And looking to serve as a halo vehicle (as Mongoose mentioned) without competing against a Toyota product. Considering the LC300 is already on a 3+ year wait in other parts of the world, we will have to wait a few years to see how everything turns out.

 

[J1000]

If they wanted a Land Cruiser in the U.S. they should have just brought in the 70 series with cloth, no sunroof and a stick shift. The vehicle was ready to go. It would have sold well at roughly this price point.

This is such a meme but it's totally dumb. You can't have a basic truck like that in the USA. All vehicles sold in the USA have to have tons of electronic driver's aids like traction control, lane keep assist, automatic cruise control/brake assist, tire pressure monitors, backup camera, collision intervention, automatic crash notifications and a few others. Also, starting 2026 all new cars will have to have remote kill switches, driver inebriation technologies (which don't exist), AI driver monitoring, etc. The list goes on.

So if Toyota is building a car with all these features then it's going to be expensive. Some of it is probably not so easy to do with a solid front axle either.

 

[shane431]

To correct your point, Toyota’s target for the LC80/100/200 and now 300 is the whole world. Toyota USA has always been a small player in these vehicles. The Prado has always been available in the rest of world as a durable more affordable Land Cruiser (in USA as GX and 4Runner) and will fill that role here as USA’s main Land Cruiser while the 300 is a Lexus here (LX600) And looking to serve as a halo vehicle (as Mongoose mentioned) without competing against a Toyota product. Considering the LC300 is already on a 3+ year wait in other parts of the world, we will have to wait a few years to see how everything turns out.

Agree with your point. I also think the 250 will do well in the US as it's a better fit for this market.

 

[Asanka]

Toyota knows very well that the average US buyer doesn't understand LX is a Land Cruiser. So why not keep the LX superior and offer the Land Cruiser badge to the 4runner, Bronco, "Wildness", "Rockcreek", "Trailhawk", etc market? So many pristine modified 4x4s at my local Costco parking lot on any weekend .

250 will be a success in US, just my 2cents bet...

 

[BullElk]

This is such a meme but it's totally dumb. You can't have a basic truck like that in the USA. All vehicles sold in the USA have to have tons of electronic driver's aids like traction control, lane keep assist, automatic cruise control/brake assist, tire pressure monitors, backup camera, collision intervention, automatic crash notifications and a few others. Also, starting 2026 all new cars will have to have remote kill switches, driver inebriation technologies (which don't exist), AI driver monitoring, etc. The list goes on.

So if Toyota is building a car with all these features then it's going to be expensive. Some of it is probably not so easy to do with a solid front axle either.

Just another example of the liberal government creating fake problems then creating liberal policies to solve the fake problems at everyone’s freedom expense.

 

[OwnerCS]

It will be interesting to see how the new Century SUV compares in price to the LX600.

 

[spressomon]

Yesterday Toyota issued (yet another) recall on the new Tundra, for fuel leak this time. Now I have even less confidence about the LC250's reliability

Maybe it's my false impression, but is the Tundra recall becoming almost monthly, and approaching Stellantis' frequency?

Toyota recalls: Toyota Tundra, Hybrid pickups recalled for fuel leak, fire concerns

Toyota is recalling about 168,000 of its 2022 and 2023 model year Tundra and Tundra Hybrid pickups for a fuel leak issue and possible fire concerns.

www.usatoday.com

Not to mention, Toyota's rocky start when they intro'd the 1VD-FTV. Toyota certainly isn't immune to first gen mistakes. I can name more than a couple on my '99 UZJ100. And they've only gotten more electro-mechanically complex.

 

[newbielx470]

Made in NONJapan Tundra correct?

I totally agree that the Japanese made Toyotas are of better quality in general . But given that the US-made Tundra used to be super reliable as well (quite a few million-mile trucks), so as a comparison of old vs. new Tundra, the new one is a lot more problematic. Similarly, I'm worried that the new Japanese made LC with all the new gizmos would likely be less reliable than the old Japan LC.

 

[xswl]

I'm not interested in the LC250 but the GX550 Overtrail+ looks interesting to me. Not replacing my 100, but I may pick up a GX550 in its 3rd year after they fix any issues. The wheelbase being the same as my 100 and the exterior dimensions being very close to my 100 make it very appealing. I will miss having the option of a 3rd row, but with my kids being much older now and one of them off to college by the time I buy a GX550, I won't have a need for a 3rd row anyways. I do wish it had a split tailgate as that's something I used all the time on my 100. If a future LC250 TRD Pro version comes out with a TT v6 instead of the 4 banger, and maybe a front locker, I would consider that instead of a GX550.

 

[MooseMichaels]

I agree with @Manhattan, Toyota powertrains and chassis are well vetted.

I too am tempted with the 250. The old school bone in me says the ttv6 is more proven(?). Not sure if that’s valid. I guess I’ll be curious to see what the new 4Runner is all about when announced.

 

[TXSunDevil]

I love my 100 with 220k on it. I might get a 250 and keep my 100. I am in my late 40s, not sure how many years I will be able to keep the 100 on the road. I think I could keep the 250 on the road the rest of my life.

 

[Asanka]

I love my 100 with 220k on it. I might get a 250 and keep my 100. I am in my late 40s, not sure how many years I will be able to keep the 100 on the road. I think I could keep the 250 on the road the rest of my life.

Gas will become not so easily available in major cities in 10 years. Environmental regulations and EV adoption will convert gas stations to other businesses such as EV charging and commercial buildings. The value of the land, especially in the cities, will drive this.

We will need a bit bigger gas tank I guess, which we want today for different reasons.

 

[Sventvkg]

I love my 100 with 220k on it. I might get a 250 and keep my 100. I am in my late 40s, not sure how many years I will be able to keep the 100 on the road. I think I could keep the 250 on the road the rest of my life.

Let me ask you a question. What do you think would prevent you from keeping your hundred series on the road until you die? I’m planning to keep mine unless I somehow come in to more money where I can buy a 200 for cash. I will rebuild the engine when I need to. I will rebuild the transmission when it needs to, and I will fix things that go wrong. What would prevent me from doing that? What would prevent you?

 

[TXSunDevil]

Let me ask you a question. What do you think would prevent you from keeping your hundred series on the road until you die? I’m planning to keep mine unless I somehow come in to more money where I can buy a 200 for cash. I will rebuild the engine when I need to. I will rebuild the transmission when it needs to, and I will fix things that go wrong. What would prevent me from doing that? What would prevent you?

I think the front end will end up costing a ton of money to rebuild. That and the brake booster and radiator.n I did the steering rack a year ago, I think it was $2200. That is the only repair i have had on this vehicle. I am not worried about the engine going out.

 

[Sventvkg]

I think the front end will end up costing a ton of money to rebuild. That and the brake booster and radiator.n I did the steering rack a year ago, I think it was $2200. That is the only repair i have had on this vehicle. I am not worried about the engine going out.

Nothing you could replace on the entire vehicle including the power plant is 10% as expensive as a new replacement. especially if you do the work yourself, which is easy. Although I would probably have the transmission done as I’ve never done transmission work.

 

[GTV]

Cool…

The 250 does appear to have some super roomy wheel wells. I’m not wild about the space sacrificed for the batteries but if it has the same size fuel tank as the 150 did, we’re talking over 500 mile range. But it probably doesn’t.

I never liked the blocky FJC (or the 120/150 Prado) but I think this one has great lines and proportions. It’s handsome. I bet the entire line up (including the 4Runner coming next) will sell well.

I really wish it had a tailgate.