- Thread starter
- #261
I cant say I know, but the head gasket and block hold half of the pre cups in place within the head so I can only assume they come out in pieces.
Finally Bought my first CRUISER! (3 Viewers)
- Thread starter dkyuss
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- Thread starter
- #262
Typical of what I have seen (new on top)
- Thread starter
- #263
Make that 8 out of 8, 100% cracked and stainless precups. Not sure on how many kms but does not make me super confident in the 'upgraded' stainless new ones I am installing. I guess they are all still intact so not catastrophic..... but 
How many kms should these be replaced for preventative maitenence? 100,000kms?
Note to self, GET NEW SIDE MIRRORS!
About 250 pages of manual so far.... all of it read. Some of it many times over!
Diffs are the only mechanical thing left. I sure hope they wait till I can afford lockers!
So on to putting together The Beast's 'new' 3B head.... Many careful comparisons, but I dont really know how original either of my 3b heads are so take it for what its worth. My 81 is an 58010 and the 86 is a 58012 part number.
Springs, valves, and all rocker arm dimensions appear identical.
The 86 springs had shim washers under 7 of 8 springs, all worn on the underside, so recently flipped. My old 81, no spring washers.... Springs sit on the head yet depth of bore on the head appears identical.
The 86 pushrods measure about 1mm larger diameter and about 2mm shorter, but both ends (ball and cup) appear identical.
Having a smoother finish, and larger diameter, I plan to use the newer pushrods.
How many kms should these be replaced for preventative maitenence? 100,000kms?
Note to self, GET NEW SIDE MIRRORS!
About 250 pages of manual so far.... all of it read. Some of it many times over!
Diffs are the only mechanical thing left. I sure hope they wait till I can afford lockers!
So on to putting together The Beast's 'new' 3B head.... Many careful comparisons, but I dont really know how original either of my 3b heads are so take it for what its worth. My 81 is an 58010 and the 86 is a 58012 part number.
Springs, valves, and all rocker arm dimensions appear identical.
The 86 springs had shim washers under 7 of 8 springs, all worn on the underside, so recently flipped. My old 81, no spring washers.... Springs sit on the head yet depth of bore on the head appears identical.
The 86 pushrods measure about 1mm larger diameter and about 2mm shorter, but both ends (ball and cup) appear identical.
Having a smoother finish, and larger diameter, I plan to use the newer pushrods.
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- Thread starter
- #264
Newer version of valve train, springs and spring retainers also to be used. So only my old valves in this newer head.....
The rocker arm ratio appears identical, but are visually different. Longer screws, smaller diameter ball to mate with pushrod, thicker contact surface for valve end in the newer version. (newer head on the left)
The 'spring keepers' are also subtly different. I have not measured, but I believe the tapered locking pins seat at the same depth, and would be technically interchangeable...
And I almost forgot to show off my new tail light covers. Nice to have something solid and water proof on there!
The rocker arm ratio appears identical, but are visually different. Longer screws, smaller diameter ball to mate with pushrod, thicker contact surface for valve end in the newer version. (newer head on the left)
The 'spring keepers' are also subtly different. I have not measured, but I believe the tapered locking pins seat at the same depth, and would be technically interchangeable...
And I almost forgot to show off my new tail light covers. Nice to have something solid and water proof on there!
hj 60
JT1W0HJ6000960839
So you are keeping the diff as desert! very nice to do last: the smell of diff oil is great.
Just get the right paper and cork gaskets (mine still leaks so did front with locktite film) and maybe new seals while there.
And new stakenuts, I forgot to order them.
And a dremel to mark the axles with a deep and thorough mark line.
And maybe new spider bearings, sorry
Now get that thing started soon!
Just get the right paper and cork gaskets (mine still leaks so did front with locktite film) and maybe new seals while there.
And new stakenuts, I forgot to order them.
And a dremel to mark the axles with a deep and thorough mark line.
And maybe new spider bearings, sorry
Now get that thing started soon!
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- Thread starter
- #266
Busy holiday weekend so not much time 
.
But I did get my head back from the machine shop before the weekend. The shop was amazed that the valve seat didnt fall out as it was cracked right through, but I dont think this head ran very long after being rebuilt. Now has brand new intake and exhaust valve seats!
Did find some time to polish the precups. About a half hour of polishing for each of these as it is amazing the number of profiles and crevices that 'appear' once some polishing begins. I Did not change the profile or angles, and minimized any opening of the angled port. Basically just removed all casting lines and dimples while smoothing any and all edges and corners.
Cropped shot of the stainless precombustion chambers as supplied (for comparison). The flash shows EVERYTHING.
And 'polished''... They actually look/feel way smother than this (should have looked at my pics before proceeding) but maybe I should have kept grinding?! But still much better than 'as supplied'.
I decided against dimpling the mating surfaces as @gerg had shown and left them much more closer to 'stock'. Partly as I am a little nervous modifying too much and partly as I want the beast running ASAP and this will help ease some time. They are now installed and came out very level and flush with the head but I will kiss the head on the grinder at work tomorrow to ensure all is flat and smooth anyways...
.But I did get my head back from the machine shop before the weekend. The shop was amazed that the valve seat didnt fall out as it was cracked right through, but I dont think this head ran very long after being rebuilt. Now has brand new intake and exhaust valve seats!
Did find some time to polish the precups. About a half hour of polishing for each of these as it is amazing the number of profiles and crevices that 'appear' once some polishing begins. I Did not change the profile or angles, and minimized any opening of the angled port. Basically just removed all casting lines and dimples while smoothing any and all edges and corners.
Cropped shot of the stainless precombustion chambers as supplied (for comparison). The flash shows EVERYTHING.
And 'polished''... They actually look/feel way smother than this (should have looked at my pics before proceeding) but maybe I should have kept grinding?! But still much better than 'as supplied'.
I decided against dimpling the mating surfaces as @gerg had shown and left them much more closer to 'stock'. Partly as I am a little nervous modifying too much and partly as I want the beast running ASAP and this will help ease some time. They are now installed and came out very level and flush with the head but I will kiss the head on the grinder at work tomorrow to ensure all is flat and smooth anyways...
Nice, and yes pre cups all crack and should be scheduled in like any other consumable on an engine like a timing belt. They only drop when you forget about them. Nice work. Get new mirrors!
- Thread starter
- #268
How many kms is a safe schedule?
Well, grinding is done. Took off about 6 thousandths of an inch to fully clean up.
Lookin pretty fine if I do say so myself!
So how long.......? 100K? That would be on the very safe side of things.
That is the nicest head shave finish iver ever seen man. Very smooth. Your MLS gasket will love you for it. I always use permatex copper to seal up the little grooves. Only needs just a dusting.
That is the nicest head shave finish iver ever seen man. Very smooth. Your MLS gasket will love you for it. I always use permatex copper to seal up the little grooves. Only needs just a dusting.
- Thread starter
- #270
Thanks! It sure helps to have good equipment, and free time!
I got a chance to work on the beast today. Valves are assembled with new stem seals and new spring washers (Got them from the machine shop... about 20 thou smaller OD/ bigger ID and about 10 thou thicker than OEM.... better than springs sitting on the head!)
And got er installed. 1 man job! Just the same as I removed it but in reverse.
Basically set up like this... I pre cleaned everything, then oiled cylinder walls, drop on the HG, +towels and 2x6 x 6'.
Then lay down some clean heavy duty plastic to keep it all clean while we are shifting the wood around. As well as another smaller piece of 2x6 on the block so we can 'drop' the head (about 8" controlled drop) without worrying about damage.
Looking at the 'Point of No Return'.
So basically a tip from there and nose the end of the head onto our strategically placed 2x6 and controlling the slide and decent down to the block. From there I shifted the 2x6 to the front edge (head is sitting on an angle, back edge on plastic, front on 2x6) and wiped/cleaned/blew air to blow out any wood fibers etc. Then the plastic is pulled out with the 2x6 to leave the head properly in place with no damaged surfaces. Engine hoist is on my Christmas list for next year... little less pucker factor.
Head bolts as removed.
Cleaned (wire wheel/solvent tank), oiled and ready to install
And then the RAIN.... so dropped the valve cover on (head bolts are finger tight) to keep er clean and called it a day.
Nice. I like the 2x6. Remember to twist, reach and lay the head down in an abrupt jerky motion. That's the best way to wreck your back! Im kidding of course. Cleaning the bolt threads with a file Deburring them helps minimize torque scatter, but your a machinist so I figure you know this stuff. Be cool to see you driving it.
Cheers
g
Cheers
g
hj 60
JT1W0HJ6000960839
So you are close to starting, very nice, the rain I am familiar with to much lately 
- Thread starter
- #273
Slowly but surely..... So close now.
Valves are set as per the specs for a cold engine.
Ended up having to tighten each screw several turns (2-3mm, 1/8"). Difference from grinding the lobes and having my old 81 smaller cam shaft vs the the heads original 86 engine.
Camshaft, lifters, timing gears, oil pump, rocker arms and valve stems (basically everything that moves) got prelubed with Lucas oil HD oil stabilizer. This stuff is sticky and will ensure it does not drip completely away before we get running preventing a dry start. Amazing stuff. Been using for years and always good results.
And then added this, followed by 6+Liters of Rottela T 15-40. Poured half a liter into the turbo feed line that comes off the engine block to again help prelube her guts.
Manifolds on! Injector crush rings installed correctly! Correct type, orientation and number per hole! 'Devil's hiding in the details'.
Installed an aftermarket water temp sensor (still need a fitting for oil pressure), dropped those new injectors in place and calling it a night.
Im going to be nervous as hell when I get the beast running! Since last time it was on the road Ive done a few major projects;
-New clutch and transmission/tcase installed. (Ive put it through gears/2wd/4wd/Hi/Lo in my driveway but about 200meters max on it)
-Brake lines flushed/replaced. Calipers and seals rebuilt
-Newly ground camshaft
-and now my rebuilt engine, that needs rings to be seated ASAP once I fire it up, at least according to everything I have read.
In addition to this, I have read that with new camshaft installs, it is important to get the RPMS up unloaded soon after first fire to ensure lubrication splashes around onto the camshaft and lifters..... But not sure I should be revving the engine unloaded before my rings are seated..... What to do???
I am thinking I will leave my glowplugs out, fuel lines disconnected and crank the engine with the starter a few times to push some oil around. Should I be able to see oil pressure with just the starter cranking???
Also debating on pulling the thermostat temporarily to assist me in purging/burping the cooling system BEFORE the truck has run long enough to get hot. This way once starting to get warm and no leaks/odd noises I can jump in and go for a rip in minimal idle time.
Valves are set as per the specs for a cold engine.
Ended up having to tighten each screw several turns (2-3mm, 1/8"). Difference from grinding the lobes and having my old 81 smaller cam shaft vs the the heads original 86 engine.
Camshaft, lifters, timing gears, oil pump, rocker arms and valve stems (basically everything that moves) got prelubed with Lucas oil HD oil stabilizer. This stuff is sticky and will ensure it does not drip completely away before we get running preventing a dry start. Amazing stuff. Been using for years and always good results.
And then added this, followed by 6+Liters of Rottela T 15-40. Poured half a liter into the turbo feed line that comes off the engine block to again help prelube her guts.
Manifolds on! Injector crush rings installed correctly! Correct type, orientation and number per hole! 'Devil's hiding in the details'.
Installed an aftermarket water temp sensor (still need a fitting for oil pressure), dropped those new injectors in place and calling it a night.
Im going to be nervous as hell when I get the beast running! Since last time it was on the road Ive done a few major projects;
-New clutch and transmission/tcase installed. (Ive put it through gears/2wd/4wd/Hi/Lo in my driveway but about 200meters max on it)
-Brake lines flushed/replaced. Calipers and seals rebuilt
-Newly ground camshaft
-and now my rebuilt engine, that needs rings to be seated ASAP once I fire it up, at least according to everything I have read.
In addition to this, I have read that with new camshaft installs, it is important to get the RPMS up unloaded soon after first fire to ensure lubrication splashes around onto the camshaft and lifters..... But not sure I should be revving the engine unloaded before my rings are seated..... What to do???
I am thinking I will leave my glowplugs out, fuel lines disconnected and crank the engine with the starter a few times to push some oil around. Should I be able to see oil pressure with just the starter cranking???
Also debating on pulling the thermostat temporarily to assist me in purging/burping the cooling system BEFORE the truck has run long enough to get hot. This way once starting to get warm and no leaks/odd noises I can jump in and go for a rip in minimal idle time.
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Looks amazing! For my turbo project, I pulled the distributor plug and cranked for about 10 seconds to prime the turbo feed line and get oil moving around. I know diesels are different animals, but I think that's common practice for gassers, so that's probably what this guy would do 
Looks familiar. 
Nice work altogether!
Hope you have better experience starting the engine than i did.
GL!
Nice work altogether! Hope you have better experience starting the engine than i did.
GL!
- Thread starter
- #276
Looks amazing! For my turbo project, I pulled the distributor plug and cranked for about 10 seconds to prime the turbo feed line and get oil moving around. I know diesels are different animals, but I think that's common practice for gassers, so that's probably what this guy would do
-I will probably disconnect the turbo oil feed line and crank (10 sec cycles) until I see oil. Then reconnect and run one more cycle. Thought of putting 10-20psi compressed air into the valve cover (oil fill hole) with turbo feed line disconnected to see if I could pre-push some oil
....-Then install glow plugs and fire it up.
-Check for oil pressure/leaks and then burp the coolant while trying to gently vary engine RPM (idle -1500). Instead of pulling the t-stat I will just go through my high points and crack the hoses open until they weep coolant. Fill over flow reservoir.
Now here is where I am a little unsure what is the best course of action......
I assume I should wait till the engine is warm/operating temp before driving? Or should I put a load on er immediately?
Ive read of farmers breaking in a tractor by putting it in low gear, finding a big tree to push against and 'give er'
... spin the wheels/dig some ruts to seat the rings.... Others say ease into it.Thinking due to all my rebuilt stuff, I will ASAP go for a quick drive around the block. Vary engine speed and moderate acceleration (some say drive it like you stole it). Couple kms max, just enough to go through the gears and confirm all looks/sounds as it should... then back home. Re torque head? Too early? check everything over, retorque driveshafts, tranny/bellhousing/engine bolts etc... etc....
Lots of hills around here so I can plan a route about 1 hr drive push it fairly hard watching temps and pressures.... Bring tools and fluids and hoses and cell phone (for pictures)! LOL Better to be prepared and not need than unprepared and in a scene....
Is there a EGT temp I should be attempting to achieve for a time period to seat rings? Or no relation? Should I minimize EGT's or try to peak them out ocasionally (most ive seen prior is 1100F pushing her hard, measured pre turbo)
Oh... so many questions still
And I need to slap something on for bumpers to make it 'legal'. Probably wont be pretty for the moment. More important things!
Thanks. Your experience is a mechanics worst nightmareLooks familiar.
Hope you have better experience starting the engine than i did.
GL!
. At least it wasnt the HJ!From what Ive seen, the first time doing something you tend to be so careful that often everything works perfect (and takes 10 times longer to accomplish), and then once you get 'comfortable' and quick is when mistakes can happen.
But i will take all the luck I can get!!
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I'm always trying to be super careful when it comes to engines, i would take the drive in easy. Warm the engine up, check for leaks and listen if there are sounds that doesn't belong there. Then drive it around and "give er" some to seat things in place. Oil change and harmless kilometers to the sunset.
I'm sure there will be as many opinions as engine builders, each to their own.
I'm sure there will be as many opinions as engine builders, each to their own.
hj 60
JT1W0HJ6000960839
I think there are so many opinions, the full throttle idea was controversial but when you read about it make some sense.
I try to:
-turn engine with plugs out, maybe first even by hand (because of rebuild and not new)
-the first thing is the oil pressure and cooling liquid, then possible leaks so just some idling/revving on the driveway I think. (because my new upper cooling hose popped off I am now even more for round the house testing with phone and safety car ready)
-vary the rpm as much as possible (no long stretch with cruise control)
-small drives to let the engine cool down and heat up again, city driving is best I think, stop&go
-the manual mostly stated no high rpm, but I do but not often or to much, some while driving and some in neutral.
When we had an event with 8 new yamaha quads they put them directly from crate on track and those things all smoked black fumes later.
Good luck! hope it goes well, all seems perfect.
Edit: here at page 21 break in for the 140hp johnson: owner manual Johnson 140.pdf
And I was looking for oil for my 140 and it was mentioned to not use syntetic in the first hours op operation.
I try to:
-turn engine with plugs out, maybe first even by hand (because of rebuild and not new)
-the first thing is the oil pressure and cooling liquid, then possible leaks so just some idling/revving on the driveway I think. (because my new upper cooling hose popped off I am now even more for round the house testing with phone and safety car ready)
-vary the rpm as much as possible (no long stretch with cruise control)
-small drives to let the engine cool down and heat up again, city driving is best I think, stop&go
-the manual mostly stated no high rpm, but I do but not often or to much, some while driving and some in neutral.
When we had an event with 8 new yamaha quads they put them directly from crate on track and those things all smoked black fumes later.
Good luck! hope it goes well, all seems perfect.
Edit: here at page 21 break in for the 140hp johnson: owner manual Johnson 140.pdf
And I was looking for oil for my 140 and it was mentioned to not use syntetic in the first hours op operation.
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- Thread starter
- #279
Finally got a chance to put on the last of the bits and things..... Coolant filled and ready to prime the oil.
I gave it about 10 to 12 ten second cranks with the starter to look for oil flow from the turbo line. No oil would show? Even poured another 1/2 liter down the same hose, then crank and no oil? So put the glow plugs in place and gave it a crank.
Almost instantly she fired to life! a couple minor sputters at first and then sounds like a tank! Or maybe a tractor. LOL
I ran it for about 2-3 minutes to take the video and check for any major leaks. Once the thermostat opened and coolant 'burped', I took it for a quick burn up and down the street 
and then turned it off (about 10 min run time). Will let it cool, and fix a couple minor things. fan belt is a little loose as it was whipping around more than it should. Little bit of diesel weeping from the priming plunger, and investigate possible exhaust leak? Or could just be a bit of oil burning off. I will comb it over well to check for problems.... as next run is hopefully to be a longer burn.... 30-40 min hill climb. So far so good!
I gave it about 10 to 12 ten second cranks with the starter to look for oil flow from the turbo line. No oil would show? Even poured another 1/2 liter down the same hose, then crank and no oil? So put the glow plugs in place and gave it a crank.
Almost instantly she fired to life! a couple minor sputters at first and then sounds like a tank! Or maybe a tractor. LOL
I ran it for about 2-3 minutes to take the video and check for any major leaks. Once the thermostat opened and coolant 'burped', I took it for a quick burn up and down the street
and then turned it off (about 10 min run time). Will let it cool, and fix a couple minor things. fan belt is a little loose as it was whipping around more than it should. Little bit of diesel weeping from the priming plunger, and investigate possible exhaust leak? Or could just be a bit of oil burning off. I will comb it over well to check for problems.... as next run is hopefully to be a longer burn.... 30-40 min hill climb. So far so good!
Right on! GZ!
