Builds Zed, the Ultimate Cruiser - A Build Thread

[crushers]

remote vacumm pump:
Vacuum Pump Kit
we are installing stick and wire feed capabilities:
High Output Alternators manufactured in the USA by ZENA, Incorporated

<sorry again for the highjack buddy>

 

[Ratpuke]

Are you doing hydroboost on this truck?

I am scouring for a 1 ton GM unit and looking at going with a PSC PS pump.

I would LOVE to get rid of the vacuum pump and go to a much bigger alternator. How does the 13B-T shut down? Does it use the VSV valves?

VSV = yes on 13BT

 

[ElHefe]

those are nice looking switches, no disagreement.

i had a 3 way that snapped perfectly into a factory switch opening on my 70, most wouldn't even knew that it wasn't factory.

i found a source for small indicator lables ... i will see if i can find a pic of them, makes for a nice finished look.

here we go:

Very cool. Where did you source these?

 

[Behemoth60]

Well, Zed is still alive but has narrowly dodged two potentially lethal project ending hurdles.

Insurance, and the Wife.

Turns out, Insurance was no problem at all. Meloche Monnex continues to be the insurer of choice for RHD vehicles in Canada, it seems.

The wife went for a test drive with me (She was driving - it's an automatic, remember). "This is so small". "I could drive this." "I've been thinking of selling the Subaru... I could drive this...." So, I started shopping for another truck, but after a serious conversation, she agreed to keep driving the Subaru. Whew. That was a close one!

I took the tape measure to it to validate some measurements. I report them here for my own records, if nothing else...

Zed in very nearly stock-like configuration. Ziplock, same measurement
Top of front axle to bumpstop: 70mm 200mm
Top of front axle to frame: 130mm 250mm
Top of rear axle to bumpstop: 130mm
Top of rear axle to frame: 230mm 320mm

Those measurements would indicate that I have about 90mm of lift in the suspension from between Zed and Ziplock. I wonder what would happen if I removed that lift....

Current distance between top of front tire and bottom of fender well in Ziplock. 200mm
Current distance between top of Rear tire and bottom of fender well in Ziplock. 190mm

Hmmm... seems I can drop the suspension 90mm, and still have 100-110mm of room for compression and articulation before I need to rais the fenders. The factory bumpstops would be very well positioned if I did this. Interesting.

Other interesting measurements.
In the BJ74, with the mid wheel base, the front axle moved forward 40mm and a toybox installed which lengthens the driveline by 180mm.... The front and rear driveshafts are nearly the same length. The front is currently 900mm, and the rear is 830mm. I wonder if I can move the rear axle back another 70mm, or maybe just get driveshafts build with enough slip yoke that the shafts (and spare shaft) are interchangable front to rear!

Distance from bottom of axle tube to ground on the Michelin 12.5R20 Tires: 435mm.
Rolling radius: 473mm
That means those Michelins flatten out my 44mm at 'street pressure'.

Frame height - belly to ground. 595mm. It would be nice to drop that 90mm. It's definately too high as it is.

Frame width - inside to inside, outside to outside, above rear axle: 940mm - 1040mm

 

[crushers]

i like your thinking ...
sqat = stable

 

[The Dude]

I love how you have embraced the metric system...

I now need to go remeasure my rig.

 

[Behemoth60]

I love how you have embraced the metric system...

Well, I have embraced a metric tape measure, if nothing else.
Actually, I am kind of sick and tired of counting the little ticks between the inches, and working backwards in my head whether each one is an eight or a sixteenth... Then trying to add your sixteenths to your quarters... bah. The metric system is way easier, and I am lazy.

sqat = stable

Stability is the toque forces that operate through your center of gravity around your roll axis. Squat generally lowers your center of gravity, yes. But that's only half the equation for stability. Some good engineering of the suspension is coming up next. I hope to get my 4 and 3 link calculations done in the next few days based using the measurements I've taken.

Speaking of which, let's talk about ideal link length.

I've heard some 'rules of thumb' that seam reasonable.
= top links should be 70% the length of the bottom links.
= on the axle, the top and bottom links should be vertically separated by 25% of the wheel diameter.
= Bottom links should mount to the frame approximately at the output of the t-case.
= The shorter the bottom links, the less they are struck and less they tend to bend.
= Personally, I would like the bottom links to be interchangeable, front to back.


What if I used my Tire diameter as my lower link length, and started from there.... 1020mm. 714mm top links. Very interesting. When I built the 5 link rear suspension in Tippy back in 2001 I used 1000mm lower links and 700mm uppers. And that worked excellent. I think that's where I'll start wit the design.

 

[Tapage]

= on the axle, the top and bottom links should be vertically separated by 25% of the wheel diameter.

at least .. but the more the better .. but ( here is ) we never have that much space up there .. ( over the housing )

 

[The Dude]

Not sure why that 25% rule keeps rearing it's head. I think it has to do with using muffler tube and spring bushings for links.

Lots of guys are running MUCH less then 25% and lots are under the 6" rule as well. More torque on your links but that's why baby jesus made 1/2" wall DOM and EMF joints.

I like the idea of keeping the lower links the same length. I have done that with mine as well.

 

[Tapage]

if going less than 25% parallel to the ground uppers make the difference ..

 

[pradocruzer]

Hey Behemoth60. Looks like you have a awesome project ahead of you. I have a little bit of info I can pass along. I three linked the front of the lj78 this year. I ended up with around an 80% difference between between the upper and lower links and the separation is around 10 inches for the 35 inch tires I have. I found that with a 70% ratio the pinion angle changed to much from fully compressed to fully drooped and 80% lessened this change. If your dealing with a low pinion center section this will come in to play a lot more then a high pinion. The most challenging part for me was the panhard and the steering. I found the down fall to the rhd is the power steering box is on the right side of the frame also the panhard mounts to the frame on this side too. The center section of the diff is off set on the right side also. When you put these together it makes very tight quarters for every thing to fit flex and turn. I three linked the rear of my truck years ago and it has been great and with the front now three linked ( with no sway bars front or rear) spring rate choice is is very important.

Can't wait to see the build in progress.
Take Care.

 

[Behemoth60]

Hey Behemoth60. Looks like you have a awesome project ahead of you. I have a little bit of info I can pass along. I three linked the front of the lj78 this year. I ended up with around an 80% difference between between the upper and lower links and the separation is around 10 inches for the 35 inch tires I have. I found that with a 70% ratio the pinion angle changed to much from fully compressed to fully drooped and 80% lessened this change. .

Attention to Pinion angle is a lesson I learned the hard way. My second multi-link suspension was on TippyR, and under compression, the pinion would twist upwards to the point of binding the u-joint under extreme compression. This happened on the Rubicon climbing a ledge, just above Buck Lake. Broke the rear u-joint. (There's no way the Unimog pinion was going to break!) That led to a cascading series of other failures and I don't want to talk about Rubithon 2005 anymore, thank-you very much! But... pinion angle less on learned!

I have the 3 and 4 link calculators, and in addition to the above guidlines, will be seeking the following deisng numbers:

Rear end 2-4% squat.
Front end 0-1% squat
Rear Roll axis with 1-2% understeer.
Front roll axis flat.
Front and rear Roll axis at the same height and as close as possible to Center of Gravity
Suspension frequency of 1.10 front, 1.27 Rear (That's optimized for an 80kmph speed)
Spring Compression at rest: 55-60%

The most challenging part for me was the panhard and the steering. I found the down fall to the rhd is the power steering box is on the right side of the frame also the panhard mounts to the frame on this side too.

I have been looking at this. The big tires already tag the stock power steering box and are polishing it up. I am hoping the 80 series width axles will keep the tires off the steering box, or at least push them out enough to allow clearance to steer around.

The other option that might work is to use a LHD 70 sereis steering box... it is a mirror image of the RHD box, and sits would sit on the inside of the frame rail. I make have to shimmy the radiator over a CM or two to make it fit, and the PS cooling lines would have to move, but It should otherwise work.

The best option would be full Hydro. I want this truck to pass the local Provincial Authorities safety inspection, and there's some local discussion as to whether full hydro is 'legal' or not. The actual legislation does not specify ANY requirements for steering. Vehicle Inspection program's inspection guide tells the technician what to inspect for various types of steering, but leaves some vagary about what is acceptable steering. Here's what the Inspection Guide says:

Item Reject If
8.4 Pitman Arm. Worn Beyond Serviceable Limits.
8.5 Idler Arm. Worn Beyond Serviceable Limits
8.6 Steering Damper Worn Beyond Serviceable Limits
Leaking
8.7 Steering Shaft Any component of the steering shaft Worn Beyond Serviceable Limits
8.8 Steering Gear Gear is not mounted securely
Worn Beyond Serviceable Limits
Fluid Leaks
8.9 Rack and Pinion Mounts are loose, missing, or Broken
Dust Boots are torn or missing
Fluid Leaks (External)
8.10 Power Steering Pump Leaks
Hoses Leak
System is disabled
Active steering does not function as designed or diagnostic trouble code exists.


I will have to speak to some experts to figure out what the reality of an 'Alberta Approved' hydraulic steering set-up.

 

[pradocruzer]

My first design was to run full hydro making the steering a breeze to set up without conflict of space. It was undecided whether it was legal or not for me also. I decided not to run hydro because my rig is a daily driver shared at times between my wife and I and I was afraid I would lose the on road feeling also I didn't want to go through the road side dot inspections we have here and argue with them on this grey area issue. If you decide not to do hydro and stick with hysteer the pan hard location will become apparent there is not to many options for locations keeping it as long as possible and straight ( I'am not a fan of bent links).

Take Care

 

[crushers]

i am all eyes to the result of your enquiry about modifications to the steering on a road vehicle.
i know what i was told, but i hope you have much better results.

 

[Behemoth60]

My first design was to run full hydro making the steering a breeze to set up without conflict of space. It was undecided whether it was legal or not for me also. I decided not to run hydro because my rig is a daily driver shared at times between my wife and I and I was afraid I would lose the on road feeling also I didn't want to go through the road side dot inspections we have here and argue with them on this grey area issue.

At this point, plan A is to do the EMF style full hyydro 'Tie Rod' which does all the work, but the system retains the steering box and drag link, mostly for 'looks' if inspected.

Hydro Assist The EMF Way - Steering Tech - Evolution Forums

 

[Tapage]

personal taste .. I like suspension frequency higher in the front .. lower in the rear ..

 

[lumpy70]

Updates?

 

[Behemoth60]

Updates?

I am trying to fit into the ih8mud build thread modus operandi and only post updates every 6 months or so! ha ha.

Clearly, I started this thread way too early. My shop is not built, and I have a gazzilion guilt-inducing home improvement projects that are halting any progress. But... here are some major advances i have made:

1. I purchased a set of 1985 Celica GT seats from the local Pick 'n Pull for $63. I've decided to go with these seats instead of twisted stitch, PRP, or other custom seats purely for the fact that I already know and love the Celica seats, and I don't fany the idea of paying for custom seats that I cannot sit in and test before buying.

2. I've purchase 24V seat heaters, to go in said Celica seats.

3. I've dismantled the seats, and have them ready to go to the upholsterer to get re-covered in top grain leather with custom leather inlays with the 'Zed' in the seat back. This is where this project stalled...

4. This is the BIG news. I purchased a new-to-me welder, a millermatic 210. I also purchased a spoolgun and all the accesories, so I am now fully aluminum welding ready. I am going to build the seat bases out of aluminum instead of steel. I am going to build a aluminum drawer under each seat for quick storage and access to gloves, flashlights, mountain money, etc. Such seat bases and drawers will be lightened and strengthened with my new dimple dies and bead roller! Wait a minute... I don't have those yet.... this is where this simple project got stalled.

5. Been researching stereo's. I think I am going to get the Kenwood GPS/Sat/Back-up camera double DIN unit. This should clear a lot of the gack off my dashboard and consolidate it all into one unit. I have not purchased this yet.

6. I did clean off my work benches last weekend.

7. I drew a new floor plan for my Shop project, which I might build next summer, whcih is where and when I will actually do most of this project.

Sorry to everyone... this project is not happenging as fast as I had hoped!

 

[lowenbrau]

I think Ziplock will ride for at least another summer. In fact, I'd reccomend just scavanging the few missing parts ( H55f pedal hangers, clutch master and Toybox) from Zippo and Marlin and just keeping Ziplock together untill the bugs are worked out of Zed.

Email the shop plans over. I wanna see them. Still building a tunnel to the house?

 

[Ratpuke]

So does that mean you're not in a rush for the upholstery work? Good luck with your plans. I found some inspiration for my shop's living quarters last week in Vegas.