Builds Zed, the Ultimate Cruiser - A Build Thread (1 Viewer)

[Behemoth60]

Are you at all concerned about the reliability issues inherent to an air ride suspension?

Yes. I had air bag suspension on TippyR (That was my 60 series on 53" tires - see my Avatar) and blew out at least 3 air bags. All of them for the same reason... poor engineering/fabrication that allowed the air bag to make contact with some other part of the suspension/body.

I am so concerned that I toy with the idea of NOT using air bags at all... just using coil over springs, but having multiple sets of coils, each with a different spring rate to match the various different configurations... Either that or a combination of coils and helper air bags - rely on the coils for the lightest load, then helper bags just for additional loaded situations.

I've used air bags enough that I am confident that they won't wear out just because they are in the dirt and mud. If well engineered to not make contact with the body, then it will take a very unfortunate and unlucky poking stick to take one out. If it does happen, then I will ride home on my air-bump stop.

 

[Glenn-BJ74]

you vary your load by 1.4 megagrams ?? that is 3,100 lbs - how is that possible.
My loaded and unloaded weight difference is about 350-450 lbs in my 74. Fully loaded about 6,000- 6,100 lbs.

 

[Behemoth60]

you vary your load by 1.4 megagrams ?? that is 3,100 lbs - how is that possible.
My loaded and unloaded weight difference is about 350-450 lbs in my 74. Fully loaded about 6,000- 6,100 lbs.

I have three data points around which I am making that estimate...

Fully Loaded for extended expedition with passengers... Scaled at 7,250lbs.

Emptied of gear, but still with the heavy tires on, top, and 4 doors and driver.. Scaled at 5,700 lbs.

empty bone stock factory BJ74, no passengers, but with doors and top still attached... 4,600lbs. Does the top, doors and windshield weigh in at a combined 550 lbs? I bet it's close.

That's where I get the two extremes adding up to aprox. 3000lbs difference. Beleive me, I was surprised how just emptying the truck of all the expo gear immediatley dropped 1800 lbs!

 

[mano002]

One sharp stick is all it takes. I've seen it happen a couple of times on Land Rovers with factory EAS.

Local to Peter and I we have had 2 sharp stick incidents that have made me realize that you can't built for every sharp stick event. A jeep had a stick penetrate the fire-wall and pin the poor driver to his seat by his inner thigh. The firewall didn't even slow it down. Another perforated the radiator and knocked a header off the side of a 350. The rad and body work didn’t slow that stick down either. I think a spare bag in the tool-kit and the piece of mind to watch out for sharp sticks will sufficiently mitigate the risk of damage. The alternative is like peter says, change coil springs, have adjustable coil-overs, neither of which allow for dumping the air to allow you to drive in a normal 7' garage door, or level for Roof-top-tenting. I have seen more broken leafs than I have perforated air-bags, so I think it’s a risk worth taking.

 

[crushers]

pay attention to the trail and getting spear-chucked is much less likely.
same with brake flex lines, brake steel lines, fuel lines ... a stick can take any of these out. can't prevent it.
every form of suspension will have it's weaknesses ... at least airbags are adjustable so you don't end up with a kidney busting ride when the load is off.

 

[Glenn-BJ74]

I have three data points around which I am making that estimate...

Fully Loaded for extended expedition with passengers... Scaled at 7,250lbs.

Emptied of gear, but still with the heavy tires on, top, and 4 doors and driver.. Scaled at 5,700 lbs.

empty bone stock factory BJ74, no passengers, but with doors and top still attached... 4,600lbs. Does the top, doors and windshield weigh in at a combined 550 lbs? I bet it's close.

That's where I get the two extremes adding up to aprox. 3000lbs difference. Beleive me, I was surprised how just emptying the truck of all the expo gear immediatley dropped 1800 lbs!

I don't know how you would put that much weight in a 74.
My truck has 5 x 85 lbs tires (315s), heavy back bumber, 2x40 litre fuel swing out, heavy front bumber with PTO, rock sliders, spare parts, front axles, tools, 24v Puma, 60-70 litres of water, hi-lift, shovel, porta-potti, shower enclosure, on-board shower, propane, food and water for a week, full camping equipment, 6' table, cast iron frying pans, awning, ARB fridge, 80 watt solar panels, -- all loaded max weight 6,100 lbs.

 

[Behemoth60]

I don't know how you would put that much weight in a 74.

41" Michelin Militarty tires with heavy Duty Trail Ready rims and inner air locks... times 5! that's 750lbs of rollers right there.

A Weathergard Pack Rat drawer, that the manufacturer says weighs 322lbs empty!

http://www.weatherguard.ca/truck_tool_boxes/view_products.php?subcat_id=18

Said drawer is basically full of steel... either spare parts, tools, drive shafts, axles, and contains a full welding shop, including drills, grinders, welder, and an armload of spare steel tube, bar, angle, etc.

Then one of these monster fridge drop slides at another 80 lbs: http://www.sleeoffroad.com/products/products_dropslide_detail.htm

Not to mention the TWO fridge freezers. They are another 100lbs empty!
Driving the freezers is a NorthStar telecom battery which weighs in itself at around 90lbs.
The technitop RTT and Fox wing awning (150lb)
A roll cage
A toybox.

40l of fuel/water on the rack, and a propane tank. Cast iron pans and dutch ovens, food, water, and gear for a 2 week adventure in the desert.

Add me and my wife into the cab and all of a sudden the scale on the side of the road is reading 3150 kg. It seems like a lot, doesn't it. I am hoping to lighten that up some.

 

[The Dude]

Yup, we are in the same boat as Peter but in a 61. It's reeeediculus how much stuff he can pack in to the back of that 74. It's an art really.

I would have to look it up to be exact, but I shed 1000lbs + just in winches, bumpers, swingouts, sliders skidplate etc when I peeled Marmaduke down for his overhaul.

 

[Glenn-BJ74]

Well for me 6,000 lbs is as heavy as I want go - otherwise my mobility and traction start to suffer in challenging situations.
For that kind of weight another axle might be in order !

 

[crushers]

hummm, traction is directly related to the weight on that tire ... how does being heavier affect traction?
just curious.

 

[Glenn-BJ74]

hummm, traction is directly related to the weight on that tire ... how does being heavier affect traction?
just curious.

Follow a built-up light Suzuki through soft- muddy/steep slippery terrain - heavy won't get you too far.

 

[crushers]

hummm, that isn't an issue of traction. that is an issue of gravity.
but that discussion is for a different thread.

 

[Behemoth60]

I finaly started working on Zed

Well folks, after a long hiatus during which I did some garage prep, including new welders, plasma cutters, grinders, sanders, press brakes and such, I started working on the Zed project.

The project will be in two parts. Part A will take me through this summer, during which time I will build all manner of bolt on niceties. I will bolt those niceties onto Ziplock, which I will drive for at least one more summer.

Part II, I will build a REAL shop, and in that shop, I will strip Zed down to the frame and build it back up right proper.

In the mean time, I started on the seats. I bought some $30 1984 Toyota Celica seats from the local Pick-N-Pull. I acquired a 24V seat heater kit, and took the whole kit down to a local upholstery shop. After discussing material options, they talked me into Marine Vinyl as the most durable fabric considering the exposure to the elements that a topless-doorless truck could experience. We selected some colours to match the truck, and I got seats.

I cut the factory tabs off the bottom of the seats, and used my new shop tools to bend up some tabs, and weld together an aluminum frame to mount the seats. Took it for a test drive, and it's pretty comfy!

Pic 1 - The Aluminum Frame.
Pic 2 - Close-up showing tabs bent on my new press brake and some of my 'Still Learning to Weld Aluminum Welding'
Pic 3 - Frame sitting in the Truck in it's final resting place

 

[Behemoth60]

And here's the seat, fully installed.

 

[Hanna Quality]

I like the seat logo!

what wheels are on ziplock? I like them

 

[Bambino840]

Did you completely remove your front wheel well skirts or just beat the crap out of them up into the well?

 

[Behemoth60]

Ken
The Wheels are Trail Ready. Non-Beadlock, 20x9. Raw aluminum, sand blasted, then clear powder coat. I do have InnerAirLocks installed in them.

Bambino
Fenders were trimmed, about 5cm was removed. If you go to the link below, and look at pictures 27 through 40, they are close ups of the fenders immediately after I cut them, but before I welded them back up.

http://gallery.2slow.ca/view_album.php?set_albumName=album02

 

[Behemoth60]

CAD Models

I've been doing some planning. In the process, I've decided to model the suspension before building it. So, I have solidworks and modeled the 74 frame. I started with the frame specifications page out of the Body and Chassis Manual.

I imported the picture into Solidowrks and started using the picture to trace the frame design, and plotted 3D points for all the body mounts.

Then I decided I needed an axle. I am planning on using 80 series axles, so that's what I modeled.

I am uploading the models to the CAD Library on TrailsLessTravelled.com. They are now pending approval. Feel free PM me if you want me to e-mail the solidworks part file to you directly.

 

[Behemoth60]

ORI Struts

I am looking at ORI air struts for Zed.

http://oristruts.com/

The neat thing about these is that they are an air spring, but unlike some like Fox and others, there is air in both sides of the piston which counter act each other, making the strut want to sit in a 'Park' position, set by adjusting upper and lower air pressures as well as adjusting internal oil levels.

This "Park" setting seems to eliminate the needs for anti-sway, as when the body rolls, the strut pulls down on the body once they extend past the park setting, instead of regular springs that are still pushing off and working to increase body roll, and require anti-sway bars to counteract this motion.

The ORI struts also have built in bumps stops.

I spoke to Kurt at ORI on Friday and asked about using these on an Expo truck like Zed, which can be quite heavy, and require high reliability. I was encouraged when he asked what size jumps I plan to take with my expo-loaded Cruiser!

His advice is that these can handle up to 860 kg sprung weight each, but the ride gets stiffer as the weight goes up. Piggy back reservoirs are available to smooth this out on heavier rigs. His advice was to use doubles in the rear for reliability (If one dies, the other is still there doing some work), comfort, and load capacity, and singles in the front with the piggy backs to smooth them out.

He also suggested getting the longest shocks possible. More stroke means I can take my truck off bigger jumps.

By my past measurements and calculations, a loaded BJ74 will have front and rear sprung corner weights of 545kg front, and 750kg rear... well within the 860kg capacity of a single strut. 2 struts on each rear corner and singles in the front should work.

And this is cheaper than coil-overs, bump stops and anti-sway bars too. And adjusting weight is simpler too.. coil overs require disassembly to swap coils, and $75 per coil each attempt you make to dial in the spring rate. Like air bags, these have infinitely adjustable spring rate by adjusting nitrogen pressure.

 

[Douglas S]

I've heard very good things about the ORI struts on Jeeps.