Hey @OutlawMike - Would you mind posting up a pic of where you tapped in to get intake temp post the turbo? I may want to replicate that approach. Would also love to see the mounting location you chose for the display if possible.
Thanks!
Wits End Turbo Owners
- Thread starter spyduh
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Thanks!
Sure, I will get some pictures. The sensor is mounted in the 90 degree elbow after the turbo. I drilled a hole in the outside of the turn, kind of facing the passenger side corner of the engine compartment. the hole was small enough that I could start a thread in the thin metal of the elbow. I added three washers to space the sensor out a bit, added a bit of JB Weld and lightly threaded it in. I then added some JB to the inside, around the sensor. Kind of Jethro, but, looks clean and has no issues. The proper way would be to weld on a threaded bung to the pipe.
The display I just stuck to the ledge on the dash to the left of the AC vent. I have a 3D model I have been working on for a new clock/AC bezel and want to put the display in the place of the clock,.
Pulling a 1500lbs (approx weight) off road camper, my engine only has about 105k original miles, but I did pull the motor and reseal everything around 90k, and also rebuilt the cylinder head and basically installed all new coolant hoses on the entire motor
I'm getting prepared to install my turbo once I finish up ensuring cooling system is ready for the task (changing to blue fan clutch — probably should change fluid viscosity prior to install JIC).
- 180K and no leaks that I can find.
-- Doesn't seem to burn any noticeable amount of oil (checked oil and normal level on dipstick after 3K miles) and no smoke.
-- I did have to fill the coolant reservoir from 'empty to high' recently but honestly I don't think I ever checked this when I bought the car 3 years ago and never added any to this point. I will check radiator fill for bubbles next time I have it running to rule out coolant leak into cylinders.
From what I read a few pages ago, It sounds like Joey and Ryan recommend either heat wrap or ceramic coating on exhaust manifolds + downpipes.
I purchased both parts of downpipe blanket...because my hood paint looks nice and I want to keep it that way
- 180K and no leaks that I can find.
-- Doesn't seem to burn any noticeable amount of oil (checked oil and normal level on dipstick after 3K miles) and no smoke.
-- I did have to fill the coolant reservoir from 'empty to high' recently but honestly I don't think I ever checked this when I bought the car 3 years ago and never added any to this point. I will check radiator fill for bubbles next time I have it running to rule out coolant leak into cylinders.
From what I read a few pages ago, It sounds like Joey and Ryan recommend either heat wrap or ceramic coating on exhaust manifolds + downpipes.
I purchased both parts of downpipe blanket...because my hood paint looks nice and I want to keep it that way
In case it helps, East on Vail Pass is a tough grade. I have a 2004 Sequoia with the 2UZ and 4-speed and I have to flog it in second to maintain any kind of speed. It is running 34s so I can run 2nd at 60 mph at 4,000 RPM, but there’s no cruising up with OD off in third.Just an update on my turbo install. A quick refresher: my setup has been reliable but for some weird reason that I have yet to figure out, she wasn't going to 7psi and she didn't have the oomph I was seeking. Climbing Vail pass was ridiculously embarrassing last fall.
After checking everything that I can think of, and not finding anything, I bought a Tial blue spring for the wastegate that bumps up the psi to 11 or some such thing. With a lot of trepidation, I swapped out the spring combo in my wastegate then ran it. Thankfully, she doesn't go past 5-ish no matter how hard I push her but still, I'm not going to go stupid with it. I bet I'll see 7psi now if I flog her but don't have the mountain grade around me to see what'd happen. The end result being the engine is way more responsive and pulls way harder than before while staying under 5psi, usually. She does go to 5psi rather quickly and w/o much flogging which I'm ecstatic about.
The only thing that hasn't been addressed is the Bosal muffler which I'd guess to be around seven years old by now. Everything in the fuel system that is consumable, has been replaced, including the FPR. The injectors were balanced/cleaned around 12 years ago when the HG was done.
She's is still reliable, predictable and fun as hell
I also have a 2004 4Runner with the 2UZ and a five speed on 33’s, that one is 4,000 RPM in 3rd and still have to flog it to maintain speed. The 4Runner is better because of the 3rd gear and half a ton lighter, but it’s hardly running up that pass. Reality is these trucks can’t crush the big Colorado pass grades just humming along in top gear.
I’m reading up on everything in plans to turbo mine, and if the turbo end product is “a bit more than a 2UZ”, then that’s not enough to just dust the big grade high elevation passes. Maybe somebody has some more input specific to running 65 mph up the long steep sections (eastbound Vail Pass and eastbound Eisenhower Tunnel)?
@Nay I still haven't gotten around to installing my wits' end turbo, but I did run a similar setup on my truck a few years ago (pretty much the same turbo, different plumbing with a small A/A intercooler). I could do eastbound Eisenhower tunnel in 3rd gear with a good running start through Silverthorne at the bottom of the hill. I don't think I ever did Eastbound Vail pass, but I imagine that would still have to involve some 2nd gear. That hill is brutal.
I'll have that data in a couple months for you but not Vail Pass specifically. I can say I have to climb Coal bank pass down here in the same way, 2nd gear and flogged to hold 50/55. My buddy with his Safari Turbo can run at 65 with his hard side camper in tow. We are both 4.88/37's. I'm sure it will be a pretty big jump beyond a 2UZ
So remember with any NA setup you are losing power at elevation. Let's use the 2UZ for example.
270hp at sea level, approximately 3% loss for every 1000ft of elevation. So at 10,000 you are losing approximately 81hp.
A turbo engine at elevation will just spin the turbo faster to attempt to maintain the same boost level. A Turbo 1FZ in an identical vehicle as a 2UZ above 6,000 would/should do better.
That is why airplane engines were turbo and supercharged to maintain power at elevation.
270hp at sea level, approximately 3% loss for every 1000ft of elevation. So at 10,000 you are losing approximately 81hp.
A turbo engine at elevation will just spin the turbo faster to attempt to maintain the same boost level. A Turbo 1FZ in an identical vehicle as a 2UZ above 6,000 would/should do better.
That is why airplane engines were turbo and supercharged to maintain power at elevation.
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****makes total sense. I think it’s more of a general question of expectations. @alia176 expressed that something must be wrong with his setup because Vail Pass was still a slog.
That’s the kind of grade and elevation that puts a NA in second, high RPM, and then whatever your tolerance for hammering the 1FZ is in effect. The NA will pull in second, it just feels like a put your fan through the radiator kind of pull. A 2UZ is a lot more comfortable at higher RPM than a 1FZ, but the question here would be will a turbo 1FZ be able to hold speed at 60-65 mph up a 7% grade at 10k elevation in 3rd? Or is it just a lot more power in second, but that leaves you up against the RPM wall anyway?
I’m only asking because there’s not a lot of sense in looking for a problem if it’s not a realistic objective. There are very few interstate speed limit high elevation passes that have grades like this, so it’s not really *the* problem to solve. I’m more concerned with stuff like handling a persistent desert headwind that kills max speeds down to 50-55 than being able to crush those few miles of pass.
But I can see being disappointed in a post-turbo pig up a big pass where your thought is “better”, but you’re still managing gears, potentially down into second, and Honda CRVs are still hanging tight. I’d hate to be ripping out cats and whatnot if I’m chasing ghosts - understanding that a complete overhaul of a lot of stuff should probably accompany the turbo and maybe it’s really a $8-9K project and not $6K.
That’s my headspace, because once the dominos fall they don’t stand back up again.
That’s the kind of grade and elevation that puts a NA in second, high RPM, and then whatever your tolerance for hammering the 1FZ is in effect. The NA will pull in second, it just feels like a put your fan through the radiator kind of pull. A 2UZ is a lot more comfortable at higher RPM than a 1FZ, but the question here would be will a turbo 1FZ be able to hold speed at 60-65 mph up a 7% grade at 10k elevation in 3rd? Or is it just a lot more power in second, but that leaves you up against the RPM wall anyway?
I’m only asking because there’s not a lot of sense in looking for a problem if it’s not a realistic objective. There are very few interstate speed limit high elevation passes that have grades like this, so it’s not really *the* problem to solve. I’m more concerned with stuff like handling a persistent desert headwind that kills max speeds down to 50-55 than being able to crush those few miles of pass.
But I can see being disappointed in a post-turbo pig up a big pass where your thought is “better”, but you’re still managing gears, potentially down into second, and Honda CRVs are still hanging tight. I’d hate to be ripping out cats and whatnot if I’m chasing ghosts - understanding that a complete overhaul of a lot of stuff should probably accompany the turbo and maybe it’s really a $8-9K project and not $6K.
That’s my headspace, because once the dominos fall they don’t stand back up again.
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So not apples to oranges because I do not have a Wits End setup, but I went W-E over Vail pass when I moved back to Virginia for school and I had my cruise control set @70mph and didn't do anything special.
That’s a good data point. Pretty radically different than slogging in second at 4,500. This isn’t a critique in any way, I’m just wondering how realistic it really is to bolt a turbo on to a 270K mile 1FZ and getting what you really wanted out of it.
Following along here, the emerging story may be “not very realistic”? But is that going to be more “it’s this part and that part causing performance degradation?” or is it going to be more adding software tuning?
Or do we not know yet? You can chase a ton of money in a hurry on that question.
There is a big range of 270k trucks. Some have been well maintained and are basically new. Others haven't had any maintenance, they leak out of every seal, and have been running 9mpg and over fueling for years, causing clogging cats. There is any number of trucks between the two.
I think before anyone sinks $6k into a turbo the truck needs to be well maintained. Period. It doesn't have to be a brand new engine, but it shouldn't be raggedy either....
$5k was for the OGs. It's $6K now a day.
One of the main reasons I bought one is to make the i70 west drive more manageable. I hate driving up the passes with 2nd gear pegged and full throttle. I always feel like the truck is going to explode lol. Hopefully the turbo makes it a bit easier.
Not a wits end turbo, but if boost is boost, 5-6 psi from my Safari system will hold ~65 on all of I-70 both directions in overdrive with the torque converter unlocked. If you want to accelerate then 3rd gear. On 33s. I have also outrun a vvti 100 series 2UZ on the hillclimb by Buffalo creek.
In airplanes they call it turbo normalizing, my Cessna 205 is normalized with a supercharger, my engine is rated at 320 hp, with the supercharger I gain nothing at sea level, but at 8000 ft I still have 320hp!!!! It’s incredible how much you loose due to elevation without forced induction!
Exactly right!
My 300k engine stinks over vail pass right now. I used to be able to maintain like 50-55, then 45, then 35 and now I'm doing 25 mph up the pass. Ditto up to the tunnel. I have a turbo on order and engine I am completely rebuilding...unfortunately, I've been working on it since last august and I still don't have my engine back from the machine shop and no turbo....should have my engine back this week. changing the filter sock on the fuel pump tomorrow to see if that solves my 25 mph issue....
I used to fly a cirrus and they offer both a turbo normalized and a turbo. You definitely want the turbo (more than normalizing). I could take off MTOW (3600 lbs) from centennial in the summer and have VS >1000 ft/min.
This makes sense. I keep my front end (all of it) lubricated with seal leaks, but sensors and hoses and other stuff are all pretty new within 20k (chasing low idle). Head gasket was replaced by the PO at Slee forever ago. Full cat back exhaust work with y-pipe leak weld maybe 40K ago by a shop that knows 80s.
In other words, I’ve done all the stuff you can get to without taking anything apart, I run 13 mpg highway on 5.29s and 37’s, 12 around town. It pulls about like it ever did since I bought it at 105K.
I know that nobody can really answer this question, but it sure would be a relevant poll to understand the difference between “I don’t neglect my truck but I also don’t regularly tear my engine apart and yes I have a main seal leak” and “rebuild”.
I’ve done a valve gasket job on a 3.4L, starter and timing belt on a 2UZ, but if the engine has to come out of the bay....
Ok I’ll peace out and read for awhile. I’m doing 38’s for now to scratch the itch. They’ll make the 5.29’s a little better.
I say boost it.
My original engine looked great inside with 248K on it but had lost a bunch of power. The timing chain had a lot of stretch. Engine builder was pretty confident timing was the reason for power loss. So replacing a timing chain on a high mile engine makes sense to me if all other things seem fine.
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