Tie Rod End Replacement Woes

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MatthewMcD

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Location
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So, today was "replace the tie rod ends day. Before I started unpacking the replacement ends I sized them up comparing them to the existing ones. I have a May '75 FJ40 left hand drive. The front disk brakes (I guess) were added by the PO. (or the PPO).

So, I am not an expert in what each arm and rod is called, so apologies for the descriptions.
Anyway, the issue is that the replacement rod end that has the hole in it is WAY shorter than the one on my '40.
20231228_211546393_iOS.jpg


Talking to the kind folks at FJParts, they think that during the disk installation the mechanic changed out the parts using different lengths to keep the geometry. So now I am stuck trying to figure out what I have. I took the following photos and measured all the rods to try and paint a picture of what I have. It looks like the other 4 tie rod ends will work, but I haven't done any disassembly in case the sage advice I get here steers me in a different direction.

The unthreaded portion is about 7" long with about 5.25" between pivot centers.
20231228_221716375_iOS.jpg

Passenger side brake and tie rod ends.
20231228_222004849_iOS.jpg

The lower rod measures about 28" from end to end without the ends.
20231228_224044756_iOS.jpg

The longer rod measures about 38.5"
20231228_224133028_iOS.jpg


I'll post the photos of the driver's side as a reply for those wanting to see all the joints.

I'd like to figure out if they used a part from another vehicle or if this change to disk uses standard replacement parts so I can complete the upgrade.



20231228_221719894_iOS.jpg




20231228_221729871_iOS.jpg
 
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So, today was "replace the tie rod ends day. Before I started unpacking the replacement ends I sized them up comparing them to the existing ones. I have a May '75 FJ40 left hand drive. The front disk brakes (I guess) were added by the PO. (or the PPO).

So, I am not an expert in what each arm and rod is called, so apologies for the descriptions.
Anyway, the issue is that the replacement rod end that has the hole in it is WAY shorter than the one on my '40.
View attachment 3519402

Talking to the kind folks at FJParts, they think that during the disk installation the mechanic changed out the parts using different lengths to keep the geometry. So now I am stuck trying to figure out what I have. I took the following photos and measured all the rods to try and paint a picture of what I have. It looks like the other 4 tie rod ends will work, but I haven't done any disassembly in case the sage advice I get here steers me in a different direction.

The unthreaded portion is about 7" long with about 5.25" between pivot centers.
View attachment 3519407
Passenger side brake and tie rod ends.
View attachment 3519411
The lower rod measures about 28" from end to end without the ends.
View attachment 3519425
The longer rod measures about 38.5"
View attachment 3519426

I'll post the photos of the driver's side as a reply for those wanting to see all the joints.

I'd like to figure out if they used a part from another vehicle or if this change to disk uses standard replacement parts so I can complete the upgrade.



View attachment 3519408
Additional Photos of the Drivers's side
20231228_221435834_iOS.jpg


20231228_221435834_iOS.jpg

20231228_221503333_iOS.jpg
20231228_221521927_iOS.jpg

20231228_221556285_iOS.jpg

20231228_221901871_iOS.jpg
 
You have a mini-truck conversion, and a mini-truck tie rod end. The main steering rod on a40 series is larger in diameter than the relay rod. You should plan on acquiring the correct tube and proceeding from there. You likely have the oversized knuckle arm holes as well, and will need tie rod shims to get it fully sorted out.

Most vendors, myself included, stock these parts.

www.marksoffroad.net
 
You have a mini-truck conversion, and a mini-truck tie rod end. The main steering rod on a40 series is larger in diameter than the relay rod. You should plan on acquiring the correct tube and proceeding from there. You likely have the oversized knuckle arm holes as well, and will need tie rod shims to get it fully sorted out.

Most vendors, myself included, stock these parts.

www.marksoffroad.net
Thanks Mark,

Are there more measurements you need to assess what the correct parts are? The thread diameter on the rod in question (steering rod?) is 5/8".
 
I was waiting for that too. Seems like fish in a barrel.
I replaced the lug nut with a proper castle nut and put cotter pins on both nuts. All is right with the world for now. @65swb45 If you have time to let me know what I might need to get rolling on replacing the rod ends I'd be grateful. The steering is pretty good even with the blown grease boots. Is it as simple as getting the correct rods (I assume it is longer than the one I have now).

Happy New Year!
 
Leave a voicemail at the shop and we’ll talk when I get back in.😉
 
Sooooo...in addition to replacing the rod ends...I wound up getting a hip replacement. But I am back.

Today I unwrapped the new Tie rod and Relay rod. (Thanks @65swb45) I matched up the tie rod ends they are a larger diameter. That leaves me with three smaller ends. Two appear the same size with opposing threads, I assume these are the Relay Rod ends. The last one has a longer shaft than the other two, I assume this is the Drag link end.

Can anyone confirm this? Is the drag link end longer than the two relay rod ends or am I wrong?
 
Answering part of my question...and learning a lesson...things that look the same are not always the same... :) Also, don't break open the bags without paying attention to the part numbers...

The end in question is 45045-69015 Steering Relay Rod Lh. So I am headed under the front end to begin reassembly.
 
To shim or not to shim...without the shims the ball joints are obviously way too loose. But with the shims they look like they won't snug up. Is that OK? I am worried I won't be able to get the castle nut far enough down to set the cotter pin.
20240504_190958447_iOS.jpg

Or do I need thinner shims? I don't want to tighten everything up and screw it up at this point.
 
OK, I took a bunch of measurements and here is the photo without the shim. There is space around the tie rod end and the nut bottoms out.
The diameter of the tapered hole in the knuckle arm measures 14.8 mm at the narrow end and 15.8 mm at the wide end.
The new tie rod end measures 13mm and 14 mm.
The Shim internal measures 12.5mm and 13.5 mm. The external dimensions are a perfect fit in the knuckle arm.

20240511_212902251_iOS.jpg


So my question is "what now?" Should I replace the sreering knuck arms? Does anyone have the measurements of the taper on the original steering knuckle arms? Are these "mini truck" arms on here for a reason? (Like are OEM steering knuckle arms incompatible with front disk brakes?) I don't want to keep throwing part at this only to find that the arms are on here because of the front disk brakes.

Thanks
 

You likely have large pattern knuckles probably from a mini truck or a fj60. These were used to adapt stk Toyota disc brakes. Earlier fj40 disc brakes(76 to 78) used smaller pattern knuckles which have smaller tapers in the arms. Cruiser outfitters sells shims or you can try to adapt borg warner starter bushing # SB0.
 
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You likely have large pattern knuckles probablyftom a mini ttuck or a fj60. These were used to adapt stk Toyota disc brakes. Earlier fj40 disc brakes(76 to 78) used smaller pattern knuckles which have smaller tapers in the arms. Cruiser outfitters sells shims or you can try to adapt borg warner starter bushing # SB0.
Thanks, I'll get back under tomorrow and measure to see if that's the case.
 
To shim or not to shim...without the shims the ball joints are obviously way too loose. But with the shims they look like they won't snug up. Is that OK? I am worried I won't be able to get the castle nut far enough down to set the cotter pin.
View attachment 3623816
Or do I need thinner shims? I don't want to tighten everything up and screw it up at this point.

What shim is it that you're using in that pic?
 
What shim is it that you're using in that pic?
It's the pair I got from Mark's Offroad along with the Tie Rod and Relay Rod. He was thinking I'd need them since this was a mini truck conversion. The tie rod ends were from FJ Parts. I ordered them before I learned I had the conversion and not a factory set up.
 
I am currently swapping out my small pattern knuckles for large pattern fj60s. I just bought X4378 starter bushing from Rockauto. The number is a crossover # for the SB0#. The 60s arms hole is approx .645" on the big side of the taper.
20240511_190622.jpg
 
At some point I'll be upgrading to 60 tre's.
 
I am currently swapping out my small pattern knuckles for large pattern fj60s. I just bought X4378 starter bushing from Rockauto. The number is a crossover # for the SB0#. The 60s arms hole is approx .645" on the big side of the taper.
View attachment 3629738
So those bushings allow you to fit the smaller tie rod ends into the larger knuckle arms?
If you have them handy can you measure them for me? Inside and out, top and bottom?

My new mantra is "Measure twice and buy once." :)
 
Yes, I pressed them in with a vise. I would guess the shims you got from Mark would do the same thing. If you use the starter bushing get extras.
20240511_191832.jpg
 

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