I finally get the shop I have wanted for too long (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Michael B
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Well I have questions...I may have missed it but how many amp service did you run from the house?
Why did you do turn down footers? I ask because most post frame construction in these parts do not require them since the weight of the building is on the poats and not the concrete.
Were the 6x6 posts treated with anything additional where they are in the ground and how deep did you go?
I am just over in Rome, GA and am axiously awaiting prices to ease before I start on my 40x45. This turned out great.
Why did you do turn down footers? I ask because most post frame construction in these parts do not require them since the weight of the building is on the poats and not the concrete.
Were the 6x6 posts treated with anything additional where they are in the ground and how deep did you go?
I am just over in Rome, GA and am axiously awaiting prices to ease before I start on my 40x45. This turned out great.
Michael B
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #203
@Hugh Heifer thanks! I’m pretty pleased with it over all.
I ran 100 amp service to the shop.
The footers were the architects bright idea. Not a requirement for code. I didn’t catch this until my permits had been issued and I wasn’t willing to go through the process of changing my plans/permit.
Nothing but concrete is around the pressure treated 6x6’s. The posts are 5’ in the ground.
I wouldn’t wait too long on the prices. I don’t see any major reduction in prices coming.
I ran 100 amp service to the shop.
The footers were the architects bright idea. Not a requirement for code. I didn’t catch this until my permits had been issued and I wasn’t willing to go through the process of changing my plans/permit.
Nothing but concrete is around the pressure treated 6x6’s. The posts are 5’ in the ground.
I wouldn’t wait too long on the prices. I don’t see any major reduction in prices coming.
Thanks Michael. In our termite belt I have been thinking about other options for the posts and also considering all metal.
You are right about prices. I thought as the pandemic slowed we would get another price dip in lumber but now with the Ukraine situation I can't see that happening.
I am unsure about what amp service I want to run. I want a residential oven for powder coating and then of course be able to run a welder possibly at the same time. If my air compressor kicked on at the same time as those two I am not sure 100 amps could carry all that (but I am no electrician).
Michael B
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #205
@Hugh Heifer What size breaker will the oven, welder and compressor require? The other question is where will you get power for the shop? If you’re tapping the house panel, as I did, and it is a 200 amp panel, as most are, a100 amp panel is the largest, that I am aware of, you could use. If you’re coming straight from a pole/underground transformer, with a separate service, you can go as big as you need. But most situations won’t allow for this. There are other ways to get a larger service but they get complicated and expensive rather quickly.
You make good points. I have a meter in the wall of a small 1 car building right beside my site. I am going to talk to my electrician buddy for the best scenario. If I had to, I could make the little biilding the secondary. It just needs lights and some 115 plugs for battery chargers. 50 amps would be far more than adequate.
I will have to go back to my plans but I think oven, 60 gallon 2 stage compressor and welder will all need seperate 40 amp (220 v) breakers .... from memory. Then of course I will need a spot to wire in a lift. So that's another 220v breaker.
In my jurisdiction I only need to pull a permit for electrical if the building is "agricultural" but that limits the service to 100 amp iirc.
My plan has been build the building then the electric box after since the permit process for suck a situation is the way it is here.
It kills me that I am looking at twice the cost today of what it was 18 months ago but I had a sight issue that I had to attend to myself and that took some time.
I will have to go back to my plans but I think oven, 60 gallon 2 stage compressor and welder will all need seperate 40 amp (220 v) breakers .... from memory. Then of course I will need a spot to wire in a lift. So that's another 220v breaker.
In my jurisdiction I only need to pull a permit for electrical if the building is "agricultural" but that limits the service to 100 amp iirc.
My plan has been build the building then the electric box after since the permit process for suck a situation is the way it is here.
It kills me that I am looking at twice the cost today of what it was 18 months ago but I had a sight issue that I had to attend to myself and that took some time.
Michael B
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- Thread starter
- #207
@Hugh Heifer Voltage is, for the most part, not your concern. It’s the amperage. Your lift will likely require another 40 amp breaker. Any 3 of your 40 amp circuits in use at the same time puts you at a potential 120 amp draw on a 100 amp box. That would very likely trip your main breaker. Nothing dangerous but certainly a nuisance.
Add that to lights and a couple fans and a stereo playing it adds up. I had been contemplating a 150 amp service.
WarDamnEagle
SILVER Star
5hp 220v compressor pulls 28 amps. Lights aren’t a lot if you use LEDs. A welder can vary a lot but let’s say around 30 amps. The issue for 100 amp service would be a kiln. That’s big steady draw.
Edit: yes and AC. Forgot about that.
Edit: yes and AC. Forgot about that.
This has been really helpful guys. I still am on the fence about pole barn or all metal (which increases the concrete cost since a turn down foundation is required) Comes down to estimates. Pole barn makes it easier to modify I think but that is because I find wood an easy medium.
When I built my workshop, I upgraded my 200A service to the house to 400A. It goes from the meter (a C320 service) and splits to a 200A panel in the house and a 200A disconnect that then runs to a 200A panel in the workshop.
The electric company required the duplication of the 200A disconnect at the house and the 200A panel (with main disconnect) at the workshop so that you could shut everything down at each location - they didn't want a situation where you were at the service entrance and had to run out to the workshop to shut that down or that you were at the workshop and had to run up to the house to shut the workshop down.
I did this in the late '90's, but I'm seeing it more often just with larger homes - particularly those with dual A/C systems and such. They bring 400A to the house and then have two panels at a central location that either each serve half the house or one for first floor and the other for second floor (or however they divide things up).
WarDamnEagle
SILVER Star
My house has 400 amp service but there is only 100 amp pulled to the shop from the main panel. The house has 2 100 amp subpanels and the shop has 1. All the other major loads come off the main panel (Heat Pumps, oven, etc.). I haven't looked at the cable size to the shop. It would be nice if I could up the panel size as it's about a 500' underground line. That would be pretty pricey to change so I will likely have to live with 100 amp service. It has a heat pump which I think is around 2.5 ton and I plan to add a 5hp compressor, a lift, and welder(s). Everything else will be 110v intermittent usage.
Had I built the shop, I would have pulled a cable good for 150 amp service.
Had I built the shop, I would have pulled a cable good for 150 amp service.
Contractor came and went this morning. I am cautiously optimistic I can afford what I want from him. Thanks to @Michael B for giving me the nudge to go ahead and make the call.
We set on a 40x45 with 14' eve height and a big leanto. We discussed 12' eve height with scissor trusses or steel trusses (open ceiling) and he said that the cost to do one of those would be the same as the additional height with regular trusses. He would have to special order the others. This will give me a good height to be able to add a mezzanine above my workbench space. He gave me an idea on cost of a smaller building (40x30) he finished this week and it has some significant differences and add-ons that I will not have so it added to that guy's cost. The building was really nice looking. Had lots of windows and high-end finishes, insulation and a ceiling. it also had considerably more concrete than he needed since the owner plans to add to it after his main residence is built. It was well below what I would have expected given the current cost of materials.
I really liked the dude. He is from nearby and said I should expect 1 to 2 weeks for completion weather permitting once he gets started. I found him on Facebook of all places which I think is good because there are no negative things posted about his projects. Lots of pictures posted in progress as well. I have done a ton of research and nothing he said was a surprise or something I was unfamiliar with.
He recommended a spray foam guy he knows nearby as well. Finally, he told me he should be able to get stuff on paper for me by the end of the day. I guess that is the second test (seeing if he delivers on a plan and estimate that fast as promised). The first being that he showed up here earlier than he thought he could - texted and said he was running early and asked if he could go ahead and come out. He added that he has been behind on some of his stuff due to the recent weather. We have been getting a ton of rain so that is not surprising.
As a plus, he also does asphalt and I am going to need my long driveway resurfaced in the next few years so this may be a really good relationship.
Here are some images of my plans:
I will now stop hi-jacking Michael's thread with the plan on starting my own once I sign papers (fingers crossed). Thanks again guys! You have all been helpful. Mud delivers once again.
We set on a 40x45 with 14' eve height and a big leanto. We discussed 12' eve height with scissor trusses or steel trusses (open ceiling) and he said that the cost to do one of those would be the same as the additional height with regular trusses. He would have to special order the others. This will give me a good height to be able to add a mezzanine above my workbench space. He gave me an idea on cost of a smaller building (40x30) he finished this week and it has some significant differences and add-ons that I will not have so it added to that guy's cost. The building was really nice looking. Had lots of windows and high-end finishes, insulation and a ceiling. it also had considerably more concrete than he needed since the owner plans to add to it after his main residence is built. It was well below what I would have expected given the current cost of materials.
I really liked the dude. He is from nearby and said I should expect 1 to 2 weeks for completion weather permitting once he gets started. I found him on Facebook of all places which I think is good because there are no negative things posted about his projects. Lots of pictures posted in progress as well. I have done a ton of research and nothing he said was a surprise or something I was unfamiliar with.
He recommended a spray foam guy he knows nearby as well. Finally, he told me he should be able to get stuff on paper for me by the end of the day. I guess that is the second test (seeing if he delivers on a plan and estimate that fast as promised). The first being that he showed up here earlier than he thought he could - texted and said he was running early and asked if he could go ahead and come out. He added that he has been behind on some of his stuff due to the recent weather. We have been getting a ton of rain so that is not surprising.
As a plus, he also does asphalt and I am going to need my long driveway resurfaced in the next few years so this may be a really good relationship.
Here are some images of my plans:
I will now stop hi-jacking Michael's thread with the plan on starting my own once I sign papers (fingers crossed). Thanks again guys! You have all been helpful. Mud delivers once again.
Michael B
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #215
Glad to be of service @Hugh Heifer The pictures look nice. I look forward to your shop thread soon!
When I did mine, I went as large as I could. Next step up would have been a commercial service. Typically, most of the cost ends up being in labor, so the increase in materials is generally worth it for "future proofing" things.
Having just done this, I agree go as big as you can to future proof. Who knows what you'll add in the future, mill, lathe, AC, ???
I respectfully disagree on the second part of your statement. Copper was the biggest cost for me. If you haven't priced it out lately it's crazy, especially if you're talking 100+ feet underground for 3 runs of 0 gauge
True. I ran mine over 20 years ago. At the time I was pissed because they had just "deregulated" the electric companies in Pennsylvania. A couple years earlier and all of the work on the power company's side would have been done for free figuring they'd make it back in increased use as a customer. But now materials costs are ridiculous...
Still, whatever you do today you're going to look back in five years and costs will likely have only gone up further, so don't have regrets.
Still, whatever you do today you're going to look back in five years and costs will likely have only gone up further, so don't have regrets.
1911
chupacabra
FWIW, I have 200 amp service to the shop and apartment, and a separate meter with its own 200 amp service for the house. It's way overkill for the house, but once I paid to bring poles and wire in from the county road, the incremental cost was minimal. The transformer on my pole will easily handle three 200 amp connections, the co-op engineering dept. said.
