Delta VS rear bumper sneak peek

[SNLC]

Some owners are planning on towing for overlanding or for whatever. Mud flaps help protect what your towing from debris thrown up by the rear tires. This pic of same view of my Kaymar (from post# 46 in this thread):

Austrailian built, 15 yrs old, not a rock crawling bumper, made for overlanding. As you can see, it's not as much big rock protection as Delta's or 4x4 Labs. It is quite an upgrade from stock though, and it's made so you can remove either the mud flap, flare or both with out a major detraction from the looks. If you remove the mud flap you can see the leading edge matches the curve of the wheel well. Rock crawlers really don't have any use for mud flaps - usually end up breaking or tearing them off, and it seems that is the trend, so most after market bumper buyers aren't really interested in them.

I had a Kaymar on my FJ60. First time I stuck it in the dirt on a climb, it bent upwards.

Not a very strong bumper at all in my opinion.


Cheers

 

[Box Rocket]

Well deserved, I'm sure. Edited my posts - I'll try to maintain my negativity.

It’s ok. Unedited responses are quoted in my posts.

One more thought on the bumper I wanted to throw out there regarding other accessory options. Id love to see an option to carry a Pull-Pal. It’s a tool I’d rather not carry inside the truck and I’m not aware of any universal mounting options for those. Whether that’s something that Delta would be willing to produce along with the other planned accessories (which I would prefer) or it’s produced by Pull-Pal or someone else would be awesome.

 

[80t0ylc]

I had a Kaymar on my FJ60. First time I stuck it in the dirt on a climb, it bent upwards.

Not a very strong bumper at all in my opinion.


Cheers

I was not promoting the bumper, just the mud flap and flare compatibility. I would hope that Delta's bumper is superior to the Kaymar. That was 15 yrs ago. I even said:

"....not a rock crawling bumper, made for overlanding. As you can see, it's not as much big rock protection as Delta's or 4x4 Labs."

This is Delta's thread. The only reason for showing Kaymar is the wing compatibility. I think it's possible to have a "strong bumper" and still make it blend with existing features, as much as possible.

 

[Delta VS]

It’s ok. Unedited responses are quoted in my posts.

One more thought on the bumper I wanted to throw out there regarding other accessory options. Id love to see an option to carry a Pull-Pal. It’s a tool I’d rather not carry inside the truck and I’m not aware of any universal mounting options for those. Whether that’s something that Delta would be willing to produce along with the other planned accessories (which I would prefer) or it’s produced by Pull-Pal or someone else would be awesome.

We could certainly look into that, but it would be lower on the priority list for sure. Would need somebody to send one to us as well. Also, love that it's main purpose is to get Humvees un-stuck.

 

[Box Rocket]

We could certainly look into that, but it would be lower on the priority list for sure. Would need somebody to send one to us as well. Also, love that it's main purpose is to get Humvees un-stuck.

Understood. I’ll check back with you later after some of the other things have been addressed. If it can squeeze into the schedule I can see about finding one to leave with you for a while.

Thanks for being open to it.

 

[Lumpskie]

@Delta VS Do you happen to have any more pictures of the production-esque version of your bumper? The only reason I ask is because I've day dreamed, looking at the photos on the first page here and I want new material to obsess over.

 

[Delta VS]

@Delta VS Do you happen to have any more pictures of the production-esque version of your bumper? The only reason I ask is because I've day dreamed, looking at the photos on the first page here and I want new material to obsess over.

Soon @Lumpskie, soon

 

[Beej]

How is the bumper attached? Stock holes? Heres some feedback that may be useful.

When i installed my current bumper, I had this crazy guy mount it up and without my consent he installed an enormous captive nut on each frame rail and equally beefy bolt. I was pissed at the time because the cost was major $$.

A month later, truck rolled freely backwards down an incline and into a tree 60 ft away. Impact caused most of the mounting hardware on the impact side to shear and one of the stock captive nuts ripped out of the frame. The only thing that saved me was these comically large mounts the guy put on. Without them the bumper would have ripped right off.

My pride did not allow me to thank him but it occured to me that the stock mounting points arent built to accomodate a 250+ lb bumper...

...Not that anyone should be rolling their truck into a tree. In my case though, there was permanent damage to the bumper and truck but the blow didnt end my truck. It didnt even end my trip.

 

[Delta VS]

How is the bumper attached? Stock holes?

It uses "stock holes", but a lot more than just a normal bumper. There are two additional brackets on each side, the frame rails, and the cross-member holes.

@White Stripe, here is a look at the jigging setup. Not really something that could be done at home. We do this so the arms are completely replaceable if something were to happen to part of the bumper (most other manufacturers will only sell the arms with the initial purchase because they have to be welded together on the bumper).

 

[Somebodyelse5]

It uses "stock holes", but a lot more than just a normal bumper. There are two additional brackets on each side, the frame rails, and the cross-member holes.

@White Stripe, here is a look at the jigging setup. Not really something that could be done at home. We do this so the arms are completely replaceable if something were to happen to part of the bumper (most other manufacturers will only sell the arms with the initial purchase because they have to be welded together on the bumper).

View attachment 1827804

When you say "completely replaceable" does that mean the arms are not welded to the main bumper?

I asked previously about your dev costs... what sort of analysis are you guys doing to justify your rates? It sounds like someone over there has an engineering background... has there been any FEA or any sort of stress analysis? Further on the rates, are you guys considering "fully burdened rates"? (ie., insurance, tooling, resources, as well as hours?) I can't stop thinking about that $30k development cost and how you guys got to that number.

 

[Delta VS]

When you say "completely replaceable" does that mean the arms are not welded to the main bumper?

I asked previously about your dev costs... what sort of analysis are you guys doing to justify your rates? It sounds like someone over there has an engineering background... has there been any FEA or any sort of stress analysis? Further on the rates, are you guys considering "fully burdened rates"? (ie., insurance, tooling, resources, as well as hours?) I can't stop thinking about that $30k development cost and how you guys got to that number.

What I meant by that is the arms are not welded as the bumper itself as a jig. A lot of the bumpers on the market today demand that you order swing outs at the time of initial purchase because they need to be assembled as a complete package (at least that's the way it seems, but is really just a guess). With our bumper, you can order with 0/1/2 swing arms at any point in time, and know that they will fit. If you mess up the bumper, you can replace it, if you mess up one of the arms, you can replace it.

Rates: we are all engineers here. Not sure what FEA would have to do with cost, but if we decide it's needed, we do it. Our "other job" is a small engineering firm. As explained in the very first post from this account (on edit: just went back and checked, actually didn't make that clear, so now it's known I guess), Delta is a "side project" of ours, one we hope will outgrow that label. Happy to talk business at length, but that'll happen around a campfire in the mountains, not the internet.

 

[Somebodyelse5]

What I meant by that is the arms are not welded as the bumper itself as a jig. A lot of the bumpers on the market today demand that you order swing outs at the time of initial purchase because they need to be assembled as a complete package (at least that's the way it seems, but is really just a guess). With our bumper, you can order with 0/1/2 swing arms at any point in time, and know that they will fit. If you mess up the bumper, you can replace it, if you mess up one of the arms, you can replace it.
Arms being the swing out arms? or the wings/sides of the bumper? I guess that would change my question.

Rates: we are all engineers here. Not sure what FEA would have to do with cost, but if we decide it's needed, we do it. Our "other job" is a small engineering firm. As explained in the very first post from this account, Delta is a "side project" of ours, one we hope will outgrow that label. Happy to talk business at length, but that'll happen around a campfire in the mountains, not the internet.
FEA is expensive, takes a lot of time, and a lot of expertise to do correctly. That expertise is not cheap and neither are licenses for the software (Abaqus, Nastran, Patran...native, built in FEA tools in SolidWorks or Fusion are pretty rudimentary and generally produce results that "look" right, but the numbers aren't even close). I'm not saying it's needed, I'm just trying to understand what makes your "sold for no profit, $3k" bumper with "over $30k into development" better than the competitors. I realize I am asking you guys a lot, and you owe me nothing, but you guys are participating in the technical forums and I'm asking technical questions

Responses above

 

[Delta VS]

Responses above

The "bumper" is what we call the weldment that mounts to the vehicle, the "arms" mount to the bumper.

Ask away, but don't expect answers to every question. Like I alluded to in my previous response, happy to discuss all this stuff in a more personal setting.

Yup, that's what I was looking for, I appreciate you taking the time!

That being said, we are in the Solidworks environment, which works quite well for this type of stuff (we hopefully aren't dealing with things that fly or blowup). We have compared SW outputs to hand calcs for complicated systems more than once and are happy with the results it provides for our use case.

 

[White Stripe]

It uses "stock holes", but a lot more than just a normal bumper. There are two additional brackets on each side, the frame rails, and the cross-member holes.

@White Stripe, here is a look at the jigging setup. Not really something that could be done at home. We do this so the arms are completely replaceable if something were to happen to part of the bumper (most other manufacturers will only sell the arms with the initial purchase because they have to be welded together on the bumper).

View attachment 1827804

I kinda figured it wouldn't be sold as a kit but just asked. That's a very nice bumper that you have designed.

 

[CascadeCruisen]

Why is everyone asking Delta to justify their own internal rates and trying to pick apart their business? Ridiculous. These guys are bringing new, innovative and exciting products to a bunch of nerds who drive 20-30 year old vehicles around. Small market. We should welcome them with open arms and not dissect them and their (private) business practices.

I am continually amazed at what a tough crowd this forum is.

Great work Delata. Keep it up.

 

[Will Van]

Why is everyone asking Delta to justify their own internal rates and trying to pick apart their business? Ridiculous. These guys are bringing new, innovative and exciting products to a bunch of nerds who drive 20-30 year old vehicles around. Small market. We should welcome them with open arms and not dissect them and their (private) business practices.

I am continually amazed at what a tough crowd this forum is.

Great work Delata. Keep it up.

Second that. Excellent work, Delta!

Also, moar pics.

 

[Jgunner]

Why is everyone asking Delta to justify their own internal rates and trying to pick apart their business? Ridiculous. These guys are bringing new, innovative and exciting products to a bunch of nerds who drive 20-30 year old vehicles around. Small market. We should welcome them with open arms and not dissect them and their (private) business practices.

I am continually amazed at what a tough crowd this forum is.

Great work Delata. Keep it up.

No doubt!!!

 

[Mudder]

Wait...engineers that are also mechanics That can't be true!

In all seriousness that is a sweet looking bumper. Keep up the awesome work!

 

[Delta VS]

Wait...engineers that are also mechanics That can't be true!

In all seriousness that is a sweet looking bumper. Keep up the awesome work!

What are these “mochanics” you speak of? And thanks!

 

[80t0ylc]

What I meant by that is the arms are not welded as the bumper itself as a jig. A lot of the bumpers on the market today demand that you order swing outs at the time of initial purchase because they need to be assembled as a complete package (at least that's the way it seems, but is really just a guess). With our bumper, you can order with 0/1/2 swing arms at any point in time, and know that they will fit. If you mess up the bumper, you can replace it, if you mess up one of the arms, you can replace it......

The more I learn about your bumper, the more I'm liking it. Speaking of the arms brings up a question, though.

Pic is from this thread. The step cutout in the arm could also be used as a High Lift jacking point, if the arm will support it. Any thoughts or recommendations?