1983 Rear brake job questions.

[Stumpalama]

What I found the last time I had my drums turned was that only one shop had a brake lathe big enough to handle the LC drum.
Have you checked with truck repair shops? I'll bet they could turn them.

 

[fjgdk]

Emergency brake bell crank rebuild

Sorry about the confusion, I intended to put both the caliper rebuild and drum brake bell crank fsm pages to show they both use the same grease.

I rebuilt the calipers with brand new OEM cylinders and the official Toyota "lithium soap base glycol grease" because I could get each piston for around 10-12 bucks each from amayama.com. So far so good. Yes my old pistons were not reusable.


Here is the bell crank page sideways (dont ask me why)

here is the caliper rebuild page again:

here is what I got from Amayama along with the oem rebuild kit:

Here is the original condition of the caliper parts with the bodies derusted and one already painted and baked :

 

[fjgdk]

What I found the last time I had my drums turned was that only one shop had a brake lathe big enough to handle the LC drum.
Have you checked with truck repair shops? I'll bet they could turn them.

So far there have been two places within a 100 mile radius that knew what I was talking about and had a price right away when I called about getting the drums turned. Going to do more investigation:

Gunther's Machining & Rebuilding, Inc. - Home

Town Square Auto Parts & Service

 

[Spike Strip]

Oh, yeah, I remember your other thread, now ... I'm Gettin' old....

Before wasting your time with a long trip, measure the thickness of the drums. Min/Max Specs are usually cast on the drum or they're certainly in the FSM. Chances are if you have the OE drums they've been turned or worn and may not have enough material left to be in the safe zone after turning. Amount of material that will need to be removed will depend on how out-of-round they are: could need just a touch up to alot of shaving.

 

[fjgdk]

Oh, yeah, I remember your other thread, now ... I'm Gettin' old....

Before wasting your time with a long trip, measure the thickness of the drums. Min/Max Specs are usually cast on the drum or they're certainly in the FSM. Chances are if you have the OE drums they've been turned or worn and may not have enough material left to be in the safe zone after turning. Amount of material that will need to be removed will depend on how out-of-round they are: could need just a touch up to alot of shaving.

Yes I am definitely not machining them if they are out of spec per the FSM (inner diameter 295 mm - 297 mm).

 

[fjgdk]

I was planning to start this job today - taking apart everything, starting the soak in evapo-rust etc. Unfortunately it was decided that my carport is to be painted soon (as soon as the weather is ok for it) and so I can't have the truck on stands because when the painters come I will need to move it.

Anyhow, I thought I'd take the drum off just one wheel (rear driver's side) to familiarize myself with what I will be dealing with. This is the wheel that spins even when the parking brake is on. The rear passenger side doesn't spin when the parking brake is off.

I learn by braking things often times. The drum and shoes were within spec and evenly worn. That being said, here are some questions I was hoping someone could answer:

1) There was a hole in the rubber cap of the wheel cylinder. Obviously I will be addressing this when I do the brake job (new cylinder etc.), however since I have to wait for that a bit, should I be ok with this hole in the rubber? Am I correct in saying that this part of the cylinder isn't what is sealing in the brake fluid ? I didn't think it was, and there were no leaks, but just wanted to make sure.

2) I made the mistake (learning opportunity) of pushing the brake pedal without the drum on. The star wheel separated and I had to slowly depress and release the brake pedal linking up the two star wheel pieces as the shoes retracted. Does this mean my star wheel should be completely replaced ? The truck seems to brake fine now but I am trying not to drive it more than a mile now if I can help it.

3) There is absolutely no movement of the parking brake bell crank. With the parking brake lever up or down, the cable tightens or slackens, but after the bell crank part of the circuit nothing changes. The position of the bell crank protruding in the drum never changed from where it was below, no matter if the parking brake lever was up or down.

4) Putting the drum back on was difficult. I think the adjustment of the star wheel is off given that it separated and I had to haphazardly put it back together. Does this sound right or are the drums always supposed to be that tight when installing them ? I ended up turning the star wheel maybe 1/16 of a revolution in the retraction direction. I then managed to get the drum on even though it was still contacting the shoes.

5) The drums are worn evenly, as are the shoes. However, I should add that there is a small, evenly not-worn patch of metal (now rust) around the outermost part of the drum because the width of the shoes is less than the full width of the wall of the drum. Is this normal ?

6) To conclude, how unsafe is my driving braking system given the above ? The parking brake doesn't work, but I just want to make sure I can stop when I am driving and I certainly am able to now.

Here are some more pics:

 

[4Cruisers]

I learn by braking things often times. The drum and shoes were within spec and evenly worn. That being said, here are some questions I was hoping someone could answer:

1) There was a hole in the rubber cap of the wheel cylinder. Obviously I will be addressing this when I do the brake job (new cylinder etc.), however since I have to wait for that a bit, should I be ok with this hole in the rubber? Am I correct in saying that this part of the cylinder isn't what is sealing in the brake fluid ? I didn't think it was, and there were no leaks, but just wanted to make sure.


View attachment 1480819

I'm pretty sure that's just a dust boot on the wheel cylinder, not designed to hold in brake fluid.

 

[Stumpalama]

From your description and the pics, that side looks good, except for the parking brake lever.
The contact pattern is normal. Read up on adjusting the shoes. You turn them in to get the drum on, spin the spreader until the drum won't turn then back off x# of clicks.
Your brake bits just need some cleaning and lubing.

 

[fjgdk]

From your description and the pics, that side looks good, except for the parking brake lever.
The contact pattern is normal. Read up on adjusting the shoes. You turn them in to get the drum on, spin the spreader until the drum won't turn then back off x# of clicks.
Your brake bits just need some cleaning and lubing.

OK thanks for the info. Just to clarify, it sounds like the adjustment procedure involves spinning the spreader with the drum on, in which case a lot of it has to be done with the rear access hole. Is that correct ? (I am not looking forward to that haha).

Also, according to the FSM there are actually only three "Must not reuse parts" any time the thing is taken apart, one of which is the c-clip on the lever activated by the parking clip, which is original part # 47601C. When I look up this part, which tends to be less than a $1, it seems like there are two options, one where "T = 1.2" and one where "T=1.6" which I am assuming is "thickness = 1.2 mm etc.". The respective new numbers are 90213-06013 and 90213-07010. Which one is needed is not distinguishable by VIN it seems. Any thoughts ?

 

[Stumpalama]

OK thanks for the info. Just to clarify, it sounds like the adjustment procedure involves spinning the spreader with the drum on, in which case a lot of it has to be done with the rear access hole. Is that correct ? (I am not looking forward to that haha).

The trick here is to get the shoes really close to the width of the drum, so they will just slide over. It may take a couple tries. Also, either a drum brake adjusting tool or a wide screwdriver eases some of the frustration of trying to position the tool just right on the star adjuster. These are also supposed to be self adjusting, so, technically, you should be able to slip the drums on with the shoes relatively close to the right spacing on the drums, put on the tires, put the truck in reverse and pull up the hand brake a few times to set the shoes properly.

Also, according to the FSM there are actually only three "Must not reuse parts" any time the thing is taken apart, one of which is the c-clip on the lever activated by the parking clip, which is original part # 47601C. When I look up this part, which tends to be less than a $1, it seems like there are two options, one where "T = 1.2" and one where "T=1.6" which I am assuming is "thickness = 1.2 mm etc.". The respective new numbers are 90213-06013 and 90213-07010. Which one is needed is not distinguishable by VIN it seems. Any thoughts ?

This one I am not sure of. Hopefully someone else can chime in on this. I don't recall there being different thicknesses or diameters of c-clips.

 

[fjgdk]

The trick here is to get the shoes really close to the width of the drum, so they will just slide over. It may take a couple tries. Also, either a drum brake adjusting tool or a wide screwdriver eases some of the frustration of trying to position the tool just right on the star adjuster. These are also supposed to be self adjusting, so, technically, you should be able to slip the drums on with the shoes relatively close to the right spacing on the drums, put on the tires, put the truck in reverse and pull up the hand brake a few times to set the shoes properly.



This one I am not sure of. Hopefully someone else can chime in on this. I don't recall there being different thicknesses or diameters of c-clips.

Thanks again. I went out and got a bendy brake adjusting tool from Harbor Freight, hopefully it will perform the function of the wide screwdriver you mention.


As for the different part thicknesses, I think I see why Toyota has two different "47601C" 's aka "C-washer". There is one in the bell crank part and then another one (that is supposed to be replaced every time), further down the "circuit" of the parking brake on the lever that forces out the shoe. I'll post pictures.

 

[fjgdk]

Here is the FSM diagram of the drum, with black diamonds indicating a "non-reusable part". I have my pen pointing to the part in question.

Now looking at the part number diagram, I have my pen pointing to two different references of "47601C", which is what I am guessing is the source of Toyota referncomg the same old part number with different thicknesses in two new parts.

 

[Ian Crawford]

hese are also supposed to be self adjusting, so, technically, you should be able to slip the drums on with the shoes relatively close to the right spacing on the drums, put on the tires, put the truck in reverse and pull up the hand brake a few times to set the shoes properly.

This is what I came to say, just finished my rears but still have to cleanup the bell cranks so they'll work freely and re-install.

Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet

 

[fjgdk]

This is what I came to say, just finished my rears but still have to cleanup the bell cranks so they'll work freely and re-install.

Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet

Wow that looks real good ! I've got a couple questions haha:

1) It sounds like I can disconnect and work on the bell crank and still be able to drive the truck, just with no e-brake. Is that correct ? How hard is it to take the bell crank off without taking EVERYTHING off on the drum ?

2) Did you get new cylinders ? Can they be painted for better corrosion protection and if so, is caliper paint ok for that ?

3) Is caliper paint ok to paint any of these parts with (such as the backing plate etc.) or is there some consideration I am not thinking of that would be best not to use caliper paint ?

4) Do I have to remove the axle to remove the backing plate ? Did you do a rear axle job as part of this ?

5) What type of parts (OEM/non-oem) did you use ? For all the springs and small stuff, including the "always replace clips and such I mentioned in previous posts, did you just use an aftermarket "bag of parts" that they sell ?

Any info is much appreciated.

 

[Ian Crawford]

Wow that looks real good ! I've got a couple questions haha:

1) It sounds like I can disconnect and work on the bell crank and still be able to drive the truck, just with no e-brake. Is that correct ? How hard is it to take the bell crank off without taking EVERYTHING off on the drum ?

2) Did you get new cylinders ? Can they be painted for better corrosion protection and if so, is caliper paint ok for that ?

3) Is caliper paint ok to paint any of these parts with (such as the backing plate etc.) or is there some consideration I am not thinking of that would be best not to use caliper paint ?

4) Do I have to remove the axle to remove the backing plate ? Did you do a rear axle job as part of this ?

5) What type of parts (OEM/non-oem) did you use ? For all the springs and small stuff, including the "always replace clips and such I mentioned in previous posts, did you just use an aftermarket "bag of parts" that they sell ?

Any info is much appreciated.

Thanks!

1.) Yes, but the "auto-adjuster" may or may not work, it may work in reverse without pulling the handbrake. As for removing, yes you can take it all out without disassembling everything, you just have to take the cables (under the truck) off so you can work the bell crank to loosen slack inside.

2.) Yep! They can be painted but I've never really practiced that. Caliper paint would be fine.

3.) Caliper paint would work, drum brakes don;t get too hot so you would be fine using something else, my backing plates are painted with Rustoleum High Performance Enamel. I prefer flat black over gloss.

4.) Yep... I didn't remove mine, with all components removed I hit them with a cup brush then brakleen and painted them on the truck.

5.) Centric brand, all from Rockauto.com, I bought their "hardware/spring" kit, too.

Hope that helps. Good luck!

 

[fjgdk]

This is what I came to say, just finished my rears but still have to cleanup the bell cranks so they'll work freely and re-install.

Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet

Is the cylinder a new Centric brand cylinder as well ?

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

@fjgdk, Not that I have any experience yet on this but I recently watched a youtube video on my Nissan (1997 Sentra) drum brakes and that C clip/washer is the exact same and in both vids I watched its reused.

 

[Ian Crawford]

Is the cylinder a new Centric brand cylinder as well ?

Yep!

 

[fjgdk]

When replacing the cylinder, how are you supposed to stop the brake fluid from coming out of the line when it is removed ? Since the whole line to each rear cylinder is hardline, I don't see how one can "pinch it off". Am I missing something ?

 

[Ian Crawford]

When replacing the cylinder, how are you supposed to stop the brake fluid from coming out of the line when it is removed ? Since the whole line to each rear cylinder is hardline, I don't see how one can "pinch it off". Am I missing something ?

Don't pinch it off! Just let it drip, put tape over it, cap it with a vacuum cap, or let it drip into a rubber hose into a container.

You're going to have to bleed the system once you get it all buttoned back up regardless.