1983 Rear brake job questions. (1 Viewer)

[fjgdk]

Not sure if anyone answered you about the non-reusable C clips. Use the thicker ones. It's actually fairly important as the self adjuster can sometimes malfunction and over tighten the shoes. If the thin top plate that touches the star wheel is loose from too thin a C clip it can cant slightly allowing it to turn the star even when it shouldn't.

It's not 'best practice' but they can be reused if you were careful in removing it. Best to use an OEM replacement for that part in particular.

Enjoying your thread. Good tech coming from lots of Mudders. Thanks

Thanks for the input ! I figured there was good reason for the two thicknesses. If it weren't something that mattered Toyota wouldn't have made things as such.

I went and got an aftermarket "Drum brake hardware" kit yesterday. It has two different clips in it. I will compare them to what comes off the truck. Additionally, I purchased an aftermarket (Dorman) e-brake kit from Autozone. It comes with the clips necessary for their build. It is designed for a Tacoma/Tundra/4-runner but upon visual inspection it looked nearly the same except for the springs and a few nothches on the arm that I don't think would matter. Can you forsee any problems with this if the lengths etc. are the same but not the springs ?

 

[fjgdk]

A little delayed but as promised. Here's the markings on the Centric shoes I purchased from Rockauto.

I also now have a working e-brake! I'll post an update in my thread (linked in signature).

Hey good to see - your shoes have the "FF" coefficient of friction after all. Good news !

 

[fjgdk]

Yesterday I did the passenger side brakes. I used the aftermarket bell crank for a Taco and seems to be fine (I haven't installed the cable yet - will do that when both sides are done and adjusted.

Unfortunately when I went to take apart the driver's side rear it became apparent that the adjuster wheel was bent. I am going to a junkyard to pull one off today (compatible versions are used up to some 2000 Tundra's).

i haven't bled or adjusted anything yet.

I have some questions after doing the passenger side:

1) Can I just adjust the star wheel, with the drum off, such that the difference between shoe and drum diameter is 0.6mm ?

I ask out of ignorance and not because I think I know better. In particular, the FSM says to rotate the wheel in reverse while having someone pull on the parking break. Once that is done, you are to take the drum off and measure the difference between shoe and drum diameter to be 0.6mm.

My question, again, is one of ignorance and not of knowing better. Why not just adjust using the star wheel so the difference is 0.6mm, put the drum on and be done with it ? What gives with putting it in reverse etc. ?


2) Am I correct in saying that the springs "on the top" and "on the bottom" (I don't know their formal names" are responsible for pretty much holding everything in place ?

3) Should the parking brake screw be adjusted so that it is just starts betting tight (no slack) when the parking brake is off ?

 

[FJ60Seth]

I must have missed the instructions in the FSM about the 0.6mm difference or read it and thought WTF. I’ve only done this twice, but everything seemed straight forward, just stupidly complicated compared to discs.

After reassembly, less drum, I had lovely assistant pull parking brake repeatedly and watched the adjuster. I verified that cable moved star wheel and it ratcheted in the correct direction. Then loosened adjuster, put on drum, tightened until shoes barely snug and had assistant repeatedly pull the parking brake. Verified that adjuster was clicking. Assistant continued pulling until clicking stop. Verified drum was tight, bled fluid and called it good.

Tow more comments:

There’s an SST to replace the tension spring (the big spring between the shoes). It doesn’t look like much, but I couldn’t have gotten that f’kn spring on without it.

I initially reused the parking brake cable (the one that runs thru a pulley & connects the shoes at the bottom). Pulling parking brake did not supply enough tension to ratchet star adjuster. Replaced cable with new and everything worked fine.

 

[fjgdk]

I realized that the reason I was having such a hard time cleaning the drivers side adjuster assembly with a tap and die was because the threads are reverse of normal (not because the stuff was bent)! Stupid stupid me forcing a right hand thread tap on a left hand threaded stud ! Kind of funny looking back at it, gotta get a new assembly now anyhow.

Is it ok to use an adjuster assembly with a 12mm threaded rod as opposed to the 10mm stock as long as the star wheel itself is the exact same size ?

According to Toyota parts pages online the original part is 47470 which became part number 4706260011 which now says it is a 12mm rod. This same part is also used in 4runners through 2000; I went to a junkyard today and pulled one off a 1997 and 1994 4runnner. Both were 12mm rods but the exact same in everything else. Can I use these?

 

[FJ60Seth]

I realized that the reason I was having such a hard time cleaning the drivers side adjuster assembly with a tap and die was because the threads are reverse of normal (not because the stuff was bent)! Stupid stupid me forcing a right hand thread tap on a left hand threaded stud ! Kind of funny looking back at it, gotta get a new assembly now anyhow.

I pointed out in an earlier post that one adjuster is left hand thread and the other right hand. Check the FSM to see which side is which. Don’t mix them up.

 

[fjgdk]

I pointed out in an earlier post that one adjuster is left hand thread and the other right hand. Check the FSM to see which side is which. Don’t mix them up.

I already messed up the drivers side mechanism by trying to clean up the threads with a tap and die for right handed threads.

Now I'm trying to get a new one and was wondering if having a 12mm (off a ninties 4runner) will do bad things even if the star wheel size is the same?

 

[coenvanwyk]

Hi! I am not a mechanic but more of an artful bodger, so what I do might not work for you. First of all I admire your desire to work on your Cruiser, instead of farming it out to some brake shop, or selling it and buying a plastic SUV.

I would not have a problem with the 12mm threaded rod. When I first serviced my brakes (at 350 000 kilometers - barely run in) I replaced the adjusters altogether with new, aftermarket ones. I would, just because I am a little conpulsive, get two the same size on both sides. You are right about them being sided: Just be sire you get the right ones on the right side. I got them wrong once, and the brakes kept on un-adjusting themselves. I never got mine to auto-adjust, though. Maybe we need a pic of your lovely assistant?

One of the problems I had on mine was a small cable on the bottom that does not seem to do anything. Take care to replace it, it goes into a small groove. If it is left out of it you get a clicking sound when you drive off, with the shoes catching. That was done by a reputable brake shop, by the way, which is why I trust nobody with my brakes.

Getting the springs back in place is a bear. I usually assemble the shoes and springs, then wrestle them into position, levering, pinching fingers, and using bad language. Always a struggle, but I always get it right.

Good luck! The satisfaction of doing it yourself is worth it.

 

[fjgdk]

Hi! I am not a mechanic but more of an artful bodger, so what I do might not work for you. First of all I admire your desire to work on your Cruiser, instead of farming it out to some brake shop, or selling it and buying a plastic SUV.

I would not have a problem with the 12mm threaded rod. When I first serviced my brakes (at 350 000 kilometers - barely run in) I replaced the adjusters altogether with new, aftermarket ones. I would, just because I am a little conpulsive, get two the same size on both sides. You are right about them being sided: Just be sire you get the right ones on the right side. I got them wrong once, and the brakes kept on un-adjusting themselves. I never got mine to auto-adjust, though. Maybe we need a pic of your lovely assistant?

One of the problems I had on mine was a small cable on the bottom that does not seem to do anything. Take care to replace it, it goes into a small groove. If it is left out of it you get a clicking sound when you drive off, with the shoes catching. That was done by a reputable brake shop, by the way, which is why I trust nobody with my brakes.

Getting the springs back in place is a bear. I usually assemble the shoes and springs, then wrestle them into position, levering, pinching fingers, and using bad language. Always a struggle, but I always get it right.

Good luck! The satisfaction of doing it yourself is worth it.

Even though I am not a mechanic and am learning a lot as I go, I've done so because the more I've learned, the more I've realized that most commercial mechanics have no clue what they are doing and are applying the same fix to everything just to get it out the door. Plus, I find figuring all this out quite enjoyable.

I hope no offense is taken to anyone on this thread but I posted another thread just about this screw diameter size with the hope that one of those parts guys (beno etc.) will reply.

 

[fjgdk]

This is what I came to say, just finished my rears but still have to cleanup the bell cranks so they'll work freely and re-install.

Imgur: The most awesome images on the Internet

Take a look at this screenshot from one of the powermodz how-to's. It looks like the main spring is on the adjuster mechanism. Is that right for certain Toyota trucks ?

 

[fjgdk]

Well, I think Ingot the job done right. Took it for a spin, things seemed good. E brake now holds on a hill! Mission accomplished.

 

[fjgdk]

Well I may start another thread for this, but my truck was running way hot after only diving 2 or 3 miles for a test run, going at most 55 mph. I've read about fan clutches going bad or needing a refill kf the silicon oil they use. When I look under the hood I can't quite see anything that looks like the clutches I am seeing online. Where is the fan clutch ?

 

[Spike Strip]

Behind the fan (fan bolted to it), in front of the water pump.

 

[fjgdk]

Behind the fan (fan bolted to it), in front of the water pump.

The 2F repair manual doesn't have anything regarding the fan or fan clutch explicitly under the "cooling system" section. It does mention a "coupler" in the section about the water pump which looks exactly like the fan clutch I've seen pictures of online. However, it also says there are "direct coupled" (no clutch) and "coupled" (w/ fan clutch) designs. Is there a particular timeframe etc. when FJ60's would be direct coupled and not have the fan clutch ?

Also, I have seen a youtube video of someone refilling a fan clutch with Toyota Silicon oil P/N 08816-03001. In the video he speaks of somewhere "in the manual" claiming a certain amount (30 ml ? ) to be filled. What manual and where in it is this spec in ?

 

[Spike Strip]

Mr. T calls the fan clutch a coupler.

The coupled nomenclature just means they used to sell the thing as a whole unit, i.e. the water pump, clutch together cuz they usually go out at the same time. Now only available separately.

I have not had good luck trying to refill the clutch. They've always leaked on me because it's very difficult to get the large thin O-ring to seat. New clutch is only about $70. Silicone oil from Toyota is gonna be $30+.

Same clutch for all years. Also, there are some threads where people have used the fan clutch from 80-series. It's supposed to be more robust than the red-hub 60 one.

 

[60Works]

Take a look at this screenshot from one of the powermodz how-to's. It looks like the main spring is on the adjuster mechanism. Is that right for certain Toyota trucks ?View attachment 1495774

Something isn't right about that screenshot. It's not a 60 series, or if it is, its been modified. The E-brake cable tells you its a rear axle (rather than front drums on a 40) but the shocks are mounted to the rear. Its a FF axle but my HJ-61 with FF does not have the spring surrounding the adjuster. It is parallel. This might be a more recent 70 Series.

 

[Spike Strip]

IIRC, that's a screen-shot of a youtube vid done on an 80-series FF rear.

 

[fjgdk]

Mr. T calls the fan clutch a coupler.

The coupled nomenclature just means they used to sell the thing as a whole unit, i.e. the water pump, clutch together cuz they usually go out at the same time. Now only available separately.

I have not had good luck trying to refill the clutch. They've always leaked on me because it's very difficult to get the large thin O-ring to seat. New clutch is only about $70. Silicone oil from Toyota is gonna be $30+.

Same clutch for all years. Also, there are some threads where people have used the fan clutch from 80-series. It's supposed to be more robust than the red-hub 60 one.

Based on the fact that the 2f fsm indicates "with coupling type" and "direct type", I would say that there are some fans that have no clutch (direct connection to the shaft of the water pump) and others have the clutch.

Refilling the clutch vs buying new presents a quandry. From what I've read, many say that Toyota simply did not fill the fan clutches as much as they should have such that the fan clutch was activated less resulting in better fuel economy numbers ("better" at the time). Therefore, buying a new one still doesn't solve the "running hot" problem that Toyota seems to have designed. Old or new clutch, there would still be a desire to put more clutch fluid in.

I'm going to start by trying to clear and refill my current fan clutch.

 

[fjgdk]

Mr. T calls the fan clutch a coupler.

The coupled nomenclature just means they used to sell the thing as a whole unit, i.e. the water pump, clutch together cuz they usually go out at the same time. Now only available separately.

I have not had good luck trying to refill the clutch. They've always leaked on me because it's very difficult to get the large thin O-ring to seat. New clutch is only about $70. Silicone oil from Toyota is gonna be $30+.

Same clutch for all years. Also, there are some threads where people have used the fan clutch from 80-series. It's supposed to be more robust than the red-hub 60 one.

Ok I need help troubleshooting the "running hot" issue. Basically driving about 1.5 non-highway miles heats the thing up to where the temp gauge is more than 3/4 of the eay to the "red zone".

Today was real hot here, and right at the cold start the cooling fan was on (ie clutch was engaged). I shouldn't have jumped to that conclusion.

Toward the end of my test drive, I turned on the heat to help keep the meter from rising, and it did stabilize if not slightly lower the gauge.

Underneath the hood, I would say it was an unscientific reading as "hot as hell".

What is the typical logical order of cooling system troubleshooting ? I would guess first see if there is coolant in the radiator. After that, what is next ? How do I test if the radiator doesnt need to be cored out ?

 

[fjgdk]

Also, is this the correct direction the cooling fan should be in ? The picture was taken from the passenger side looking towards the front of the vehicle.

I should add that while the fan seems to be engaging correctly (to me), most of the air seems to be circulating above the fan, and not either to the radiator or engine. I am suspecting that it is actually blowing it at the engine but all the stuff between the fan and the engine deflects it. Is that correct ?