1983 Rear brake job questions.

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F

fjgdk

10 Year
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Well I just spent a LONG time doing my first front axle job on my 1983 FJ60. I want to do a rear brake job as well. Not only is it long overdue on this truck, but when I bled the brake system for the front axle job the passenger side rear would not rotate with the e-brake off/on (not matter what), and the drivers side rear would not stop rotating with the e-brake on/off. The truck won't hold on a hill in neutral with the e-brake on, it will only hold on a hill in gear.
This will be my first drum brake job on any car. After looking at the FSM and watching some of the youtube videos on this, I have a few starter questions before I jump in:

1) I will be replacing the shoes with new OEM ones. Will it suffice to completely de-rust the drums, paint them and have them machined or is it a bad idea to use old drums, even if machined, with new shoes ? I've heard that the old shoes wear in their imprint into the drums and even machining won't help. Everything on the truck is stock/OEM so I'd rather not have to drop approx $300 on new OEM drums if I don't have to.

2)Should I go ahead and do a rear axle bearing job while I am at it ? I've seen the powermodz youtube video on this, but I don't think that was on a semi-floating axle like my truck has. Seems like I will have to open the rear diff to remove the axle (per the FSM). How can I tell if the rear axle bearings need changing ?


I will have more questions as I start this job, so thanks in advance for everyone's help.
 
There is nothing wrong with having the drums machined, as long as they are within spec. Machining them will remove any old wear from the old shoes and give them a fresh surface to bed with. As far as the axle bearings going, if they aren't making any noise I would leave them alone. Replace the outer axle seals if they're leaking but other than that I'd just leave it.
 
I just did my rear brakes a few months ago. Not a hard job. I got new drums from NAPA and all the other necessary parts from Rockauto.
 
Got my Wagner drums from rock auto as mine are not usable. They worked just fine.

Getting them resurfaced is almost a lost art these days. The problem is they may be worn down where they are to thin to resurface.
Years ago a shop I worked in we had a brake machine and would resurface disk and drums. Now I cannot find a shop to do it.
 
You will probably want to purchase new brake cylinders. One for each side. While you have the drum off, it is a good idea to check the condition on of the axle seal. The bearings are usually fine, at least mine were with over 120K on the odometer.
Now, changing the axle seals is a more involved job and requires opening the rear diff to get to the c-clips that hold the axle shafts in. It's not difficult, but can be time consuming the first time around.
 
I am going to see if my Napa can re-surface the drums (I've heard they can). I have this weird obsession with keeping everything OEM, which is why I am going to try everything to resist replacing these drums.

Yes I was planning om replacing the cylinders. I had an interest in rebuilding them just because I like to see the internals of things so I can see how they work, otherwise it isn't cost effective to do so.

So what should I expect when it comes to the e-brake bell housing ? I understand that can be a beast to deal with and get working again.
 
Drum brakes do not have a "bell housing", that I know of.
The shoes are mechanically spread to hold the drum when the ebrake lever is pulled.
When you remove the the drum, pay attention and take pictures of the set up before dismantlung the componets to ensure you can put it back together correctly. It also helps to do one side at a time and keep the other together as a reference.
 
So, maybe you are referring to the bell cranks. In that case, if they are frozen, soaking them in a rust remover, like Zero Rust usually does the trick. These are side-specific, so, again, doing one side at a time is a good idea.
 
Stumpalama said:
So, maybe you are referring to the bell cranks. In that case, if they are frozen, soaking them in a rust remover, like Zero Rust usually does the trick. These are side-specific, so, again, doing one side at a time is a good idea.
Click to expand...
Yes the e-brake bell crank is what I was referring to.
 
The OEM for brake drums is Ikuda, but you won't be able to find them anymore. They were available a few years ago but have disappeared. If you want OE, you'll have to buy in a Toyota box.

And as others have stated, very difficult these days to find a competent person, let alone find a shop with a brake lathe. After I had a very expensive pair of rotors ruined, not to mention the time I spent installing them and figuring out they had been ruined, I gave up and just buy quality new. Avoid Chi-comm if you can.

I spoke too soon - These are Ikuda: Brake Drum, 81-90 FJ40 60 62, Rear, Japan

brakes0004_2-jpg.369329
 
Spike Strip said:
The OEM for brake drums is Ikuda, but you won't be able to find them anymore. They were available a few years ago but have disappeared. If you want OE, you'll have to buy in a Toyota box.

And as others have stated, very difficult these days to find a competent person, let alone find a shop with a brake lathe. After I had a very expensive pair of rotors ruined, not to mention the time I spent installing them and figuring out they had been ruined, I gave up and just buy quality new. Avoid Chi-comm if you can.

I spoke too soon - These are Ikuda: Brake Drum, 81-90 FJ40 60 62, Rear, Japan

brakes0004_2-jpg.369329
Click to expand...
Ok great thanks for the info.

As far as avoiding stuff made with Chinese or North Korean slave labor, what brands are there other than Ikuda? All the stuff at Napa/Advanced Auto/Autozone seem to be all Chinese made.
 
OK I just called about the Ikuda drums per the link above and they said they couldn't get them anymore.

If I do get the drums turned, are there some tests I can do (other than getting into an accident on the road) to determine the quality of the job done on them ?
 
If you want to turn your drums, I'd find a good machine shop rather than some auto parts store.

They can measure out-of-round before and after surfacing the drum, but I doubt they will do that at NAPA, unless you find an experienced tech.

I don't know of any other non - Chi-comm brands, now. You'll prolly have to just stick with Wagner, Raybestos, etc - and those are prolly all the same reboxed units.

Wheel cylinders are Aisin/Asco, but about the same price as from Toyota.

Honestly, if the only non-Chi-comm available now were from Mr T, that's what I would buy. I mean, they only last 30 years.

Take the bell-cranks apart and clean well with a wire brush and reassemble with GOOD anti-seize and buy new boots.

Use new brake hardware.
 
Spike Strip said:
If you want to turn your drums, I'd find a good machine shop rather than some auto parts store.

They can measure out-of-round before and after surfacing the drum, but I doubt they will do that at NAPA, unless you find an experienced tech.

I don't know of any other non - Chi-comm brands, now. You'll prolly have to just stick with Wagner, Raybestos, etc - and those are prolly all the same reboxed units.

Wheel cylinders are Aisin/Asco, but about the same price as from Toyota.

Honestly, if the only non-Chi-comm available now were from Mr T, that's what I would buy. I mean, they only last 30 years.

Take the bell-cranks apart and clean well with a wire brush and reassemble with GOOD anti-seize and buy new boots.

Use new brake hardware.
Click to expand...
I have been looking around this afternoon for shops that would seem to have more experienced craftsman as machinists. So far the only one who seemed most knowledgable (by virtue of the fact he knew what I was asking for and asked some reply questions) was about 1.5 hours away. There were a few closer but they make me doubt their experience as they asked "what were you asking for again ?".
 
Yeah, it's because we live in an age of $40 brake drums so why spend $20 to turn them? But you and I know the reason .... ;)

If you don't want to pop for the Toyota, I'd just find some Bendix, Wagner, Raybestos from a local store so you can easily return if there's a problem.

Even 20 years ago pretty much any parts store had at least one old mechanic around who had retired from the fix-it trade, and could easily do the job.

Labor is too expensive today so the young guys just replace. It's cheaper.
 
Exactly the same response I got when I initially looked.

What amazing me is that someone could screw up turning a disk or drum. it really is not that hard.

Spector Off Road has used turned drums in their catalog. maybe give them a try
 
I have yet to take apart the drum, but looking through the FSM one thing I found interesting was that the grease it says to use for the ebrake bell crank is the "lithium soap base glycol greas" and NOT moly or MP grease. I wonder why this is ? The other place I used such a grease was when I rebuilt the front calipers and used it on all the rubber parts per the FSM. This is also known as the Toyota red rubber grease. It seemed to be more of a rubber conditioner type thing than a grease for mechanical metal on metal action.

IMG_4086.webp
 
That's for wheel cylinder, not the bell crank. Normal grease (petroleum) will attack the rubber parts in the wheel cylinder which are made to be stable in the presence of hydraulic fluid. When people use normal grease in those areas they fail quickly. FWIW, I have not had good luck rebuilding those cylinders. They get pitted after 35 years and even honing doesn't help. New wheels OE are about $50 each.

If you want to try your hand at the rebuild, get a 20mm ball hone.

Z-LN1yfo5oy.JPG


On the Bell Cranks (the things the E-brake cable attaches to) use Anti-Seize.

OEM wheel cylinders: Amazon.com: ADVICS WCT-011 Rear Drum Brake Wheel Cylinder: Automotive

They've come down in price a lot since I did mine.
 
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