Builds Work In Progress aka: Badass (5 Viewers)

[NeverGiveUpYota]

Picked up the head. They pulled 2&5 to check the valves, said they lapped, magnafluxed and found all was good. $125.

I got home and tried a test someone told me... I poured alcohol into the ports and tipped the head to see if any leaked out of the closed valves. All intakes #6, 5, 2 & 1 leaked. 3 & 4 remained dry, no leaks showed. God damn.

Additionally, I’m sure I asked him to magnaflux and they hadn’t. He had me wait for him to dip it again and then do it, w/ the valves in. That was maybe 20 mins I sat waiting. Think he even accomplished it sufficiently?

 

[mattressking]

Picked up the head. They pulled 2&5 to check the valves, said they lapped, magnafluxed and found all was good. $125.

I got home and tried a test someone told me... I poured alcohol into the ports and tipped the head to see if any leaked out of the closed valves. All intakes #6, 5, 2 & 1 leaked. 3 & 4 remained dry, no leaks showed. God damn.

I'm a little confused, wasn't checking valve seal part of the deal?

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

Yes and now I can 100% attest that two machine shops blew it on my head.
I suppose at this point it may be time to lap them myself.
???
I’m letting the head dry in the open garage now and will run the test a second time just to verify I was doing it right.

 

[mattressking]

Yes and now I can 100% attest that two machine shops blew it on my head.
I suppose at this point it may be time to lap them myself.
???
I’m letting the head dry in the open garage now and will run the test a second time just to verify I was doing it right.

Want me to reach out to some friends in CT that have better machine shop resources?

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

Want me to reach out to some friends in CT that have better machine shop resources?

I suppose but honestly at this point I’m not sure I’d trust anyone. Lmk tho.

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

@Cruiserdrew, @FJACS, who else? I really would like the wisdom of the hive to speak up, ^^^^.
I’m going to smack the springs w/ a rubber mallet and run the test again. Will report back in an hour or so.
Scratch that. Nearly an hour and #2 intake still very shiny around the rim. I’ve not run the test again. I’m going to let it dry longer. I know I could use the air compressor but trying to not ignore kid too long and heating up food.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

I would think that just because a bit of alcohol runs through the valve, doesn't mean it isn't sealing properly when at high speed in a running motor. It's not a perfect seal, it's just 2 metal surfaces pressed against each other at 45 degrees or so with a bit of spring pressure. I've never heard of the alcohol test as a definitive test anyway. Usually, you test seating with Prussian Blue, but I have not done that for decades and have trusted the machine shop to get things right.

But why did they only examine 2 of the cylinders? Usually a head rebuild involves re machining the Valve seats and valves themselves, replacing the stem seals and replacing the valve guides, and surfacing the mating surface. Of course, that costs a lot more than $150. We had one redone recently that was $600 give or take if I remember correctly.

The good news is, you hopefully ruled out a cracked head.

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

I would think that just because a bit of alcohol runs through the valve, doesn't mean it isn't sealing properly when at high speed in a running motor. It's not a perfect seal, it's just 2 metal surfaces pressed against each other at 45 degrees or so with a bit of spring pressure. I've never heard of the alcohol test as a definitive test anyway. Usually, you test seating with Prussian Blue, but I have not done that for decades and have trusted the machine shop to get things right.

But why did they only examine 2 of the cylinders? Usually a head rebuild involves re machining the Valve seats and valves themselves, replacing the stem seals and replacing the valve guides, and surfacing the mating surface. Of course, that costs a lot more than $150. We had once redone recently that was $600 give or take if I remember correctly.

The good news is, you hopefully ruled out a cracked head.

So why would nothing run out of both valves on 3 & 4?
They only did those because it was a ‘performance check’ on those two. I suppose when he said that, it seemed logical. You saw that they didn’t take the valves out to do the magnaflux? And in 20 mins he dipped and fluxed. Is that actually possible?
I’ve not rechecked, laying next to a sleeping kid and relaxing. Tomorrow I’ll try again.
And as I understand it, Prussian blue is to see how well it’s seating, not how tight they’re seating. That’s similar to going to the dentist and after a filling is done they’d have you bite down on the carbon paper to check for high spots. Yes?

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

What you need to know before you pull that head off - Hagerty Media

From your engine, not your neck.

www.hagerty.com

The test I tried is plainly explained in this link.

 

[Infinity00]

From the reading I’ve done, one of the most common areas for a crack is under the valve so if they didn’t take them out when performing the magnaflux, I wouldn’t put it back on my truck until it was checked properly. I’m a little confused which ones they lapped. Seems like in an earlier post the shop pulled 2 & 5 to lap and they are leaking, correct? My suggestion is to suck it up and find a better shop, and pay them to magnaflux with valves out, check valve spring rate and height, and have them check for leaks after the valves are back in with a water bath and pressure test. This is just stuff I’ve gleaned from the inter web. It seems like shops vary greatly, i’d Find a shop that is willing to show you how they do things so you know they are going to do it right, or do yours while you are there. Kinda sucks that’s what it’s come down to....maybe the last shop will admit their failures and do it right for you while you watch and wait.

 

[roadstr6]

I’m sure I asked him to magnaflux and they hadn’t. He had me wait for him to dip it again and then do it, w/ the valves in. That was maybe 20 mins I sat waiting. Think he even accomplished it sufficiently?

Nope.

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

I called the shop and did my best to just ask questions before stating my findings.
He’s adamant there WILL be seepage esp w/ rubbing alcohol, which he says its very very thin. Their pressure/vacuum test is a special device that hooks on and pulls on the valve area (I don’t quite understand) and they found 2 & 5 good. They HAD pulled the springs and then lapped in both as well.
And he swears magnaflux doesn’t have to be done w/ valves and springs out. He said he checked the whole thing, then dipped it so it wouldn’t be covered w/ the powder.

He also said ‘you know how many valve jobs we’ve gotten from folks who poured gas or alcohol into the combustion chambers? Tons.’

He basically told me I’m worrying too much, that I don’t have a problem.

So now I honestly don’t know what to think.

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

This tho it’s regarding tractors has some very interesting info on valve seating and guides. Information about Small Engine Valves, Springs, Lifters, Camshafts and Exhaust Header Pipe
And annoyingly, I can’t forget what a guy up in NH said to me before I had the valve job done two years ago ‘if you don’t have new guides installed, the head job will fail.’ I waved him off but that article says as much too.

 

[2mountainfish]

This tho it’s regarding tractors has some very interesting info on valve seating and guides. Information about Small Engine Valves, Springs, Lifters, Camshafts and Exhaust Header Pipe
And annoyingly, I can’t forget what a guy up in NH said to me before I had the valve job done two years ago ‘if you don’t have new guides installed, the head job will fail.’ I waved him off but that article says as much too.

I had my head done by a very very good shop, and he measured the guides. He assured me that they were within spec and did not need to be done. 12,000 miles later and I have had 0 problems with the engine. I did rebuild the whole thing though. I'm not bragging, because the Land Cruiser gods would punish me for that , haha , I am just adding to the info everyone else has given. I know how frustrating it can be when thing just aren't right and you can't get a clear answer. Hang in there , you WILL succeed , .

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

I did rebuild the whole thing though

Can you clarify? “Did” as in request all the parts be replaced regardless? Guides?

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

And on valve spring height. https://www.onedirt.com/tech/engine/install-measure-otherwise-obsess-valve-springs/

 

[Cruiserdrew]

It honestly sounds like the head is fine. I would run it.

Your block is well worn, though, so how far you want to get into it is up to you. I once replaced main and rod bearings ( no cam work or rings) and got 10 years out of a '76 2F motor, but when it died, it did so in spectacular fashion leaving me stranded 10 miles outside of Hawthorne Nevada. Look it up if you want to see a bad place to be stuck.

I would be looking around for a good running 2F and consider a swap.

You have no cheap options at this point. Sorry about that. Options as I see them from 3000 miles away:

-Chevy LS swap $15,000, Turnkey $20,000
-Rebuild the existing 2F---$3500
-Running similar year 2F in better condition---$500-$1000
-Reassemble what you have ---$200 in gaskets and stuff.

I'm thinking that if you disassemble the motor and get new rings, you'll only buy a bit of time and in the end, have to rebuild anyway. Keep in mind these are OLD trucks. With poor aftermarket support. With limited finances, I'd put what you have together and just run it. It will eventually fail. That could be years from now.

 

[2mountainfish]

Can you clarify? “Did” as in request all the parts be replaced regardless? Guides?

I meant I rebuilt the entire engine. As far as the head, we only replaced the parts that were bad, surfaced it and repaired a crack.

 

[NeverGiveUpYota]

I meant I rebuilt the entire engine. As far as the head, we only replaced the parts that were bad, surfaced it and repaired a crack.

Thanks... I don’t think I remember reading that you had a crack. Was it stitched like Alex’s? I do remember that you rebuilt... rings too? Toyota brand correct?

 

[2mountainfish]

Thanks... I don’t think I remember reading that you had a crack. Was it stitched like Alex’s? I do remember that you rebuilt... rings too? Toyota brand correct?

Yep, had it stitched. Actually replaced all bearings,cam,pistons,rings etc... The only Toyota sourced parts were new head bolts , head gasket and rear main seal. I don't remember the brand of the other stuff.