Any reason this wouldn't work on a 93-94 model on a low boost application? I imagine the stock airflow meter would be the limiting factor.
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Builds Turbo 1FZFE FZJ80 Build
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I'm new to cruisers and how they work. But supra, sc300, is300 have all been using piggybacks with autos for years. Is the landcruiser that much different?
If I were going the turbo route. I would use something like the AEM piggyback and run map instead of MAF.
If I put any forced induction on anything I want to be able to check my air fuel ratios. (even the TRD kit)
If I were going the turbo route. I would use something like the AEM piggyback and run map instead of MAF.
If I put any forced induction on anything I want to be able to check my air fuel ratios. (even the TRD kit)
The AEM FIC supposedly allows for complete control, even enough to over come O2 sensor corrections. Its far from the crappy old VAFC/SAFC units of old. The problem with just running bigger injectors, is the problems of drivability and poor fuel mileage at off boost conditions. The stock ECU is programmed to run 310cc injectors and when you go to slapping 450cc or bigger you inevitably run rich at part throttle. That is the nice thing with a programmable ECU. I really think there would be something to gain for all Landcruiser if we could tune the whole ECU. I bet I could make better fuel mileage just by tuning the fuel and ignition curve.
The MAF is a good way to run the engine, as it just measures airflow. Nothing wrong with that. But we need to be able to adjust for bigger injectors with that MAF.
I wonder what would happen if I called Denso and ask them about re-flashing the old ECU? They would probably laugh me off the phone.
The MAF is a good way to run the engine, as it just measures airflow. Nothing wrong with that. But we need to be able to adjust for bigger injectors with that MAF.
I wonder what would happen if I called Denso and ask them about re-flashing the old ECU? They would probably laugh me off the phone.
I am all for tuners getting their heads together to crack the code, but I think for the moderate boost I want, a URD O2 manipulator and possibly a 7th injector, teamed up with a good AFR gauge will be all I need.
Yes if you just slap bigger injectors in you're going to have problems, but you won't run rich, the O2 sensor will just keep shortening the injector pulse width until you get back to 14.7
That's why I think the 7th injector is a good idea. You fool the O2 sensor, so it thinks all is good then you add fuel with the 7th injector, and URD allows you to map the fuel for that injector across the RPM band independent of the stock injectors. The tuning is all done via the AFR. But I could be WAY off!!! It's just what makes sense to me given the boost goals I have.
Yes if you just slap bigger injectors in you're going to have problems, but you won't run rich, the O2 sensor will just keep shortening the injector pulse width until you get back to 14.7
That's why I think the 7th injector is a good idea. You fool the O2 sensor, so it thinks all is good then you add fuel with the 7th injector, and URD allows you to map the fuel for that injector across the RPM band independent of the stock injectors. The tuning is all done via the AFR. But I could be WAY off!!! It's just what makes sense to me given the boost goals I have.
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- #25
On the topic of tuning. My recommendation would be one of 2 routes depending on what your power goals are.
1) If you plan on staying within the limitations of how much power the factory fuel injectors can support then do not touch anything. Don't mess with the MAF, don't use a piggy back, don't use a 7th injectors, don't do anything. Just bolt everything on, monitor your AFR's and raise boost up until you start to get to around 11.9:1, then back the boost down until you're at around 11.5:1 and leave it there. Enjoy the new found power, and leave the rest of the system alone.
2) If you plan on wanting more power than what the stock fuel system can support then you need to take the next step and go with a programmable ECU. In the case of the FZJ80, there's not an easy plug'n'play solution that will also control the transmission. The best choice here is to use something like an E-manage, AEM F/IC, or other unit along-side the factory ECU. Take over timing/fueling functions with the new ECU and leave the factory ECU there for all other controls that it already does well. The only thing you will be using the aftermarket ECU for is to control timing maps and fuel maps. Along with the new ECu you will also need larger fuel injectors. The appropriate injector size will depend on how much power you want to make and what type of fuel you want to use to make that power.
In cases like the Land Cruiser where most owners don't really know how much power they actually want, they just know they want more than what the OEM setup offers... I recommend you start by bolting on all of the necessary components such as turbo, fuel pump, intercooler, exhaust, etc... And set the boost to within the capabilities of the factory fuel injectors/ecu. If this power level is enough for you and puts a huge grin on your face every time you hit the pedal, then leave it at that. If this power level is nice, but you still want more, then the next step would be the new ECU, injectors, and tuning. Or if you're a gear head that already has a WHP number in mind, then that makes the decision much easier.
1) If you plan on staying within the limitations of how much power the factory fuel injectors can support then do not touch anything. Don't mess with the MAF, don't use a piggy back, don't use a 7th injectors, don't do anything. Just bolt everything on, monitor your AFR's and raise boost up until you start to get to around 11.9:1, then back the boost down until you're at around 11.5:1 and leave it there. Enjoy the new found power, and leave the rest of the system alone.
2) If you plan on wanting more power than what the stock fuel system can support then you need to take the next step and go with a programmable ECU. In the case of the FZJ80, there's not an easy plug'n'play solution that will also control the transmission. The best choice here is to use something like an E-manage, AEM F/IC, or other unit along-side the factory ECU. Take over timing/fueling functions with the new ECU and leave the factory ECU there for all other controls that it already does well. The only thing you will be using the aftermarket ECU for is to control timing maps and fuel maps. Along with the new ECu you will also need larger fuel injectors. The appropriate injector size will depend on how much power you want to make and what type of fuel you want to use to make that power.
In cases like the Land Cruiser where most owners don't really know how much power they actually want, they just know they want more than what the OEM setup offers... I recommend you start by bolting on all of the necessary components such as turbo, fuel pump, intercooler, exhaust, etc... And set the boost to within the capabilities of the factory fuel injectors/ecu. If this power level is enough for you and puts a huge grin on your face every time you hit the pedal, then leave it at that. If this power level is nice, but you still want more, then the next step would be the new ECU, injectors, and tuning. Or if you're a gear head that already has a WHP number in mind, then that makes the decision much easier.
Baktash,
In your scenario 1, you say turn boost up until you hit 11.9. Is that at WOT? When the truck is over fueling in open loop? What about closed loop when you are under 3k rpms and have low value TPS readings? That is my big concern, simply because that is where 85% of my driving is done. I am a big gear head but I am trying not to get carried away with this build. I think you're right though let's just bolt everything up and see where it lands, on stock fueling and engine management.
In your scenario 1, you say turn boost up until you hit 11.9. Is that at WOT? When the truck is over fueling in open loop? What about closed loop when you are under 3k rpms and have low value TPS readings? That is my big concern, simply because that is where 85% of my driving is done. I am a big gear head but I am trying not to get carried away with this build. I think you're right though let's just bolt everything up and see where it lands, on stock fueling and engine management.
The ECU should meter fuel according to airflow with small corrections from the 02 sensor at part throttle.
Anybody speak Japanese? I can't seem to get a human at Denso here that can help.
This has been my big concern with running a turbo on stock fuel management
Denso will not be any help at all, MKIV Supra guys tried for years to crack the Denso ECU's they are all running standalone ECU's now. Would be nice if they where as easy as Hondas to crack.
I'm watching this thread with great interest, I wan to turbo this spring.
Any change there will be a DIY parts list so one can buy say the manifold adapter and build the rest?
- Thread starter
- #30
Wheelingnoob, we haven't finalized what will be for sale in mail-order form yet. We will keep that in consideration.
- Thread starter
- #31
I don't know if I would trust the stock 93/94 electronics to be able to handle boost. I would go to a tunable ECU on a 93/94 when doing a turbo/supercharger. But all the hardware that bolts on will be the same.
There is a company out there that offers electronic control units for the early Cruiser transmissions. That would be such an easy option.
https://www.hgmelectronics.com/display/hgm/COMPUSHIFT+II
This would allow you to use a stand alone on the early trucks.
https://www.hgmelectronics.com/display/hgm/COMPUSHIFT+II
This would allow you to use a stand alone on the early trucks.
What necessitated the truck pictured's head swap? Did it blow up after the turbo install?
Tapage
Club 4X4 Panamá
- Thread starter
- #35
Overheated due to a leaking radiator. It was leaking before the turbo install and the added heat made quick demise of the already tired and leaking unit. Now it's getting a built/ported head with upgraded springs, MLS headgasket, ARP headstuds, new timing chain/guide/tensioner, crank main seal, etc...
The factory 95-97 fuel pressure regulator is a 1:1 rising rate regulator that is already setup for boosted applications. There is no advantage to running an aftermarket regulator on this truck since there is no advantage to adjusting the fuel pressure on the stock ECU.
Closed loop is determined by engine RPM, throttle position and MAF input. When you are in closed loop the ECU makes trim adjustments based on O2 sensor readings. There is nothing to be done here, the truck should run fine in closed loop just as it did when there was no turbo.
- Thread starter
- #36
I've ordered up 4 different ECU's that we will be experimenting with over the next several months on my 97 to see if we can create a solution that will hopefully meet the following requirements for us:
1) allow us to create a plug'n'play solution
2) allows the stock ecu to be left in place to control everything it needs to
3) allows full control of timing/ignition and fuel injectors
4) allows the OBDII functions on 95-97 trucks to remain functional for emissions/inspection testing
If we can successfully get the electronics worked out it would give us a solid tunable setup that we can use to tune naturally aspirated, supercharged, and turbocharged FZJ80's. If this all works out we should be able to offer similar setups for just about any year Land Cruiser. But there's a lot of work, $$$, and time involved in getting this right, so be patient with us on the electronics/tuning portion of this
1) allow us to create a plug'n'play solution
2) allows the stock ecu to be left in place to control everything it needs to
3) allows full control of timing/ignition and fuel injectors
4) allows the OBDII functions on 95-97 trucks to remain functional for emissions/inspection testing
If we can successfully get the electronics worked out it would give us a solid tunable setup that we can use to tune naturally aspirated, supercharged, and turbocharged FZJ80's. If this all works out we should be able to offer similar setups for just about any year Land Cruiser. But there's a lot of work, $$$, and time involved in getting this right, so be patient with us on the electronics/tuning portion of this
I've ordered up 4 different ECU's that we will be experimenting with over the next several months on my 97 to see if we can create a solution that will hopefully meet the following requirements for us:
1) allow us to create a plug'n'play solution
2) allows the stock ecu to be left in place to control everything it needs to
3) allows full control of timing/ignition and fuel injectors
4) allows the OBDII functions on 95-97 trucks to remain functional for emissions/inspection testing
If we can successfully get the electronics worked out it would give us a solid tunable setup that we can use to tune naturally aspirated, supercharged, and turbocharged FZJ80's. If this all works out we should be able to offer similar setups for just about any year Land Cruiser. But there's a lot of work, $$$, and time involved in getting this right, so be patient with us on the electronics/tuning portion of this
I'm working on the same thing with mine pre turbo to see if I can something to work.
Just got back from Baktash's shop, it is a top notch place.
Great fabrication with stainless and aluminum, very clean and well thought out system, it was nice to be able to sit in front of a truck and talk to Baktash and his head "mechanic" about what I am looking for. A lot of places would have tried to push me into the things that are easy for them, EMS was very open and receptive to ideas, helping talk through the pluses and minuses.
I won't be going as aggressive as Brett's truck, going to use a smaller turbo, as well as a different air filter setup, hoping that getting the OEM air box out of the way can increase the size of the a/w intercooler.
Check back here for a stock before dyno this week!
Great fabrication with stainless and aluminum, very clean and well thought out system, it was nice to be able to sit in front of a truck and talk to Baktash and his head "mechanic" about what I am looking for. A lot of places would have tried to push me into the things that are easy for them, EMS was very open and receptive to ideas, helping talk through the pluses and minuses.
I won't be going as aggressive as Brett's truck, going to use a smaller turbo, as well as a different air filter setup, hoping that getting the OEM air box out of the way can increase the size of the a/w intercooler.
Check back here for a stock before dyno this week!
I thought about changing the air filter set up, but I am still interested in having a snorkel (if I go with a 4" intake at phase 2 the stock can will have to go-more hesitation in cutting a hole in the fender). That was my main reason for keeping the stock can. If the IC we used wasn't going to be big enough the stock can would have come out. We used a very high capacity reservoir (located where a dual battery set up might reside) with a high volume pump to make sure that the intake stayed cool even while idling off road.
It will be interesting to see how your stock dyno compares to the one of Baktasht's truck out on the EMSPowered website.
This is from Denso. I need to find another way into a real person as opposed to the PR person.
