TRD supercharger questions

[djsixbillion]

Good deal! I've also got the MR2 plugs, and I don't remember changing the gap from the factory setting.

Re: intercooler - I went water/air because of the efficiency at slow speeds vs. an air/air setup, and chose an IC over meth injection mainly due to the maintenance aspect. Once set up, you can pretty much forget about it for a couple years until the coolant needs a flush and fill.

 

[cruiserdan]

.8mm, already set.

 

[NLXTACY]

Good deal! I've also got the MR2 plugs, and I don't remember changing the gap from the factory setting. Re: intercooler - I went water/air because of the efficiency at slow speeds vs. an air/air setup, and chose an IC over meth injection mainly due to the maintenance aspect. Once set up, you can pretty much forget about it for a couple years until the coolant needs a flush and fill.

Oh and you sell a pretty comprehensive kit to do just that

 

[djsixbillion]

Oh and you sell a pretty comprehensive kit to do just that

Wasn't gonna say nuthin', but yeah

https://forum.ih8mud.com/merchandis...-kit-trd-supercharged-fzj80-land-cruiser.html

 

[Mlachica]

Wasn't gonna say nuthin', but yeah

https://forum.ih8mud.com/merchandis...-kit-trd-supercharged-fzj80-land-cruiser.html

Ya, I've run across that in all my research. I really like what you've come up with and your engine bay looks great btw. With as much as I've spent on my truck recently anything with a $1700 price tag hurts. Nothing against your product or its value - I'm just broke lol. I think your solution is my preference. I'm not really in favor of the idea of having to monitor or fill up a meth tank. Still more pondering and research to do...

Man, I can't wait to get this bad boy installed and give it a few good shake downs before summer. I've got a decent trip on the calendar for august from socal to copper mountain, colorado. Family of 5, adventure trailer, camping gear, steep grades & heat - I'd say that's putting the 80 to work haha

 

[djsixbillion]

Sounds like an awesome trip! You'll definitely love the extra power pulling a trailer over the passes.

 

[concretejungle]

the MR2 plugs are already gapped correctly. Just screw em' in and go.

 

[Roc Doc]

"Of the three basic supercharger types, the Roots design historically possessed the worst thermal efficiency, especially at high pressure ratios." - Bell, Corky. Supercharged!. Bentley Publishers, 2001, p. 48.

L

I have been reading Corky Bell's white papers on forced induction as far back as the early 80's, his research is squared away.

Anyway, intercoolers are about the best "free" power investment you can make. If you don't have room for an air-to-air intercooler, a smaller Air-to-water cooler can be mounted just about anywhere with a fan.

 

[Mlachica]

With a properly front mounted, good quality air to air IC with quality plumbing - is there that much loss in efficiency to be concerned about?

 

[Roc Doc]

With a properly front mounted, good quality air to air IC with quality plumbing - is there that much loss in efficiency to be concerned about?

No. Intercoolers should be sized according to the size of the engine, how much boost, etc. Most factory intercoolers for cars are undersized as they're really only designed for short term use. A HD diesel is a different story with it pulling a load up a big grade, you've got to have a properly sized turbo and intercooler or you'll have high EGT's and can melt pistons.

 

[Mlachica]

Ya from the people I've been talking to it sounds like an air to air intercooler can be effective without diminishing performance. It just needs to be done right. Any recommendations on good shops in SoCal?

Any other input?

For now the plan is to make sure my cooling is in tip top shape and run the stock pulley. As soon as I can I'd like to do some sort of intercooler then swap for a smaller pulley.

 

[alia176]

Ya from the people I've been talking to it sounds like an air to air intercooler can be effective without diminishing performance. It just needs to be done right. Any recommendations on good shops in SoCal?

Any other input?

For now the plan is to make sure my cooling is in tip top shape and run the stock pulley. As soon as I can I'd like to do some sort of intercooler then swap for a smaller pulley.

The WAIC posted above by DjSixbillion is a good solution and you can peace meal it for your application due to the lack of $$$. He is willing to sell A La Carte just for this exact reason.

It's a proven and elegant solution that's already been implemented successfully. I'd buy the actual WAIC that was modified for our engines, then put your own system together. FirstToy & Inverness came up with the original "how to" on this exact setup for you to duplicate.

Air to Air - Shoehorning large diam pipes under the hood and placing yet another heat source (IC) in front of the radiator doesn't seem all that enticing to me but that's just me Air is an insulator, not a conductor when it comes to thermal activity. We need air space inside our walls to create a thermal barrier. Air is used between window thermal panes for thermal barrier.

Just another opinion that ain't worth much.

 

[scottryana]

That and when you are going slow, heavily loaded and in hills you will see boost but no air flow to cool the air to air intercooler..... They are great at highway speeds and in cars, but if you are talking about pulling a trailer off road my opinion and the option I went with is water to air. Just don't be enticed by the cheap intercoolers you can find on the internet. Use a good quality core, like a Bell or Garrett. I found this out the hard way using a water to air intercooler that was rated for 600hp and would let my IAT's get hotter than I wanted. So picked up a 1200hp Bell core lol.

 

[beachcomberspi]

That and when you are going slow, heavily loaded and in hills you will see boost but no air flow to cool the air to air intercooler..... They are great at highway speeds and in cars, but if you are talking about pulling a trailer off road my opinion and the option I went with is water to air. Just don't be enticed by the cheap intercoolers you can find on the internet. Use a good quality core, like a Bell or Garrett. I found this out the hard way using a water to air intercooler that was rated for 600hp and would let my IAT's get hotter than I wanted. So picked up a 1200hp Bell core lol.

Any hard, factual data to back this up or just your opinion? Thanks.

 

[scottryana]

Hard factual data that when going slow an air to air intercooler won't work? This is pretty common sense. The only way to cool the air is by having cool ambient air pass over the fins that have been heated by the heated compressed air. If you look at a volume of air and an intercooler sized for an application at road going speeds lets say 55mph, it has probably 1/10th its ability to shed that heat at 5mph. SO to get that ability to cool at slow speeds you would have to increase the intercooler size so large that it isn't practical to fit and now you have a large pressure drop.

Quick math

55mph = 290400ft/hr = 4840ft/min on a 1.11sq/ft intercooler (8"x20"x3.5") = 5372.4cfm of ambient air passing over the intercooler
5mph = 26400ft/hr = 440ft/min on a 1.11sq/ft intercooler (8"x20"x3.5") = 488.4cfm of ambient air passing over the intercooler

Or did you mean hard factual data that Bell and Garrett cores are better than ebay and Chinese cores?

 

[beachcomberspi]

Hard factual data that when going slow an air to air intercooler won't work? Or hard factual data that Bell and Garrett cores are better than ebay and Chinese cores?

Curious about heat soak at low speeds. I know you do a lot of reading. Have you come across anything that suggests a/a or w/a is a better solution for our trucks. From work on my TT Supra a/a system over the years it seems that both will eventually heat soak at low speeds and the higher speeds are a toss up?

 

[scottryana]

Edited my previous post to give some data.

But at slow speeds an air to air isn't going to have the volume of ambient air going over the fins to cool the intercooler to cool the intake air. In the water to air system water has significantly more ability to pull heat out of the intercooler than air. Not to mention if you are using a water to air system 9 times out of 10 you are using a fan on the heat exchanger so even while sitting you are pumping water through the intercooler and heat exchanger and cooling the system. In an air to air could you accomplish the same thing? Yes with big enough fans and a big enough intercooler you could but it is not practical.

But on a car like a Supra that is on the highway doing highway pulls and moving I agree air to air is cheaper, easier, less moving parts, and usually lighter. But even big drag cars use air to water because they aren't at speed long enough to cool, and air to water in their application can cool to below ambient temps with ice water.

 

[beachcomberspi]

The Supra can get heat soaked with the stock side mount even on long pulls at high speeds. The front mount IC solves this except in traffic. a/w in our 80's application at low speed even with a fan will heat soak eventually. I wonder how long that would take. Possibly a misting system at intervals during low speed will help. Likely not too much boosting will be done at those speeds anyway so the gain may be negligible in either case .

 

[scottryana]

The supra gets heat soaked because it isn't designed for the extra power of a large single or people run the stock turbo's off their compressor maps to get as much boost as possible out of them. In the stock configuration in a MKIV with sequential twin turbo's and 320bhp you would be very very hard pressed to heat soak the system on the highway. Sure turn the boost up and spin the hell out of the little turbos and they are going to make a lot of heat or pull the stock twins and go to a big single like most do and the stock intercooler won't be able to keep up. But you are talking apples to oranges.

So look at it this way, the only heat sink in an air to air system is the aluminum intercooler if you get it hot and there is little/no air moving over it, it is going to stay hot. Now in an air to water system you have an aluminum intercooler that gets hot, it has water pumped over it, that water gets warm and dumps into a 6 gallon holding tank dispersing the heat, then it is pumped into a heat exchanger with a fan further removing more heat, before being pumped back to the intercooler. Is it possible to completely overwhelm any system? Sure but the situation has to be much more severe at low speeds stop and go heavy loaded crawling and towing to overcome a good water to air system.

Again I am not anti air to air, I have air to air systems on my other 2 cars. ha, but I am pro finding what works best for the planned application. If you told me the 80 was only going to be used on the highway and was going to tow at speeds like a diesel truck, then I would say absolutely don't mount a big bumper or winch and cut some sheet metal and stick as big of an air to air as you can up front. But with bumpers, off road lights, winches, slow speeds, stop and go, hills and towing, I don't think it is the right way to go. Just my opinion.

 

[concretejungle]

Being devils advocate here...so an air to air can get heat soak when sitting still. Ok so what's the difference then not having an IC at all? I see it as an improvement over stock. Can't be any worse then no IC at all.

True if you are going by pure HP numbers then fine, spend the money on the water tank, pump, plumbing plus the IC. Or just go with a cheaper IC like blarsen did.

Just my 2 cents.