TRD supercharger questions

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To each their own and I won't make any more posts here because I have pulled the topic far enough off track, but a top mount intercooler can also heat the air up, if you aren't moving. Think about it, it acts just as well heating as it does cooling. heat from the engine and exhaust manifold rise, heat the fins, air goes through and instead of being cooled it picks up heat. Fine at speeds with the scoop, no good low range, working hard. $0.02

...via IH8MUD app
 
scottryana said:
The supra gets heat soaked because it isn't designed for the extra power of a large single or people run the stock turbo's off their compressor maps to get as much boost as possible out of them. In the stock configuration in a MKIV with sequential twin turbo's and 320bhp you would be very very hard pressed to heat soak the system on the highway. Sure turn the boost up and spin the hell out of the little turbos and they are going to make a lot of heat or pull the stock twins and go to a big single like most do and the stock intercooler won't be able to keep up. But you are talking apples to oranges. So look at it this way, the only heat sink in an air to air system is the aluminum intercooler if you get it hot and there is little/no air moving over it, it is going to stay hot. Now in an air to water system you have an aluminum intercooler that gets hot, it has water pumped over it, that water gets warm and dumps into a 6 gallon holding tank dispersing the heat, then it is pumped into a heat exchanger with a fan further removing more heat, before being pumped back to the intercooler. Is it possible to completely overwhelm any system? Sure but the situation has to be much more severe at low speeds stop and go heavy loaded crawling and towing to overcome a good water to air system. Again I am not anti air to air, I have air to air systems on my other 2 cars. ha, but I am pro finding what works best for the planned application. If you told me the 80 was only going to be used on the highway and was going to tow at speeds like a diesel truck, then I would say absolutely don't mount a big bumper or winch and cut some sheet metal and stick as big of an air to air as you can up front. But with bumpers, off road lights, winches, slow speeds, stop and go, hills and towing, I don't think it is the right way to go. Just my opinion.
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I disagree with your assessment of the Supra. You seem quite set in your assessment and I'll leave it to that. It can be very helpful at times comparing apples to oranges as no analogy can be the thing itself. I agree with the a/a assessment up front and hadn't thought of it that way before. What's your take on the hood scoop and top mount a/a. I'm leaning towards w/a for the 80 and appreciate your thoughts:

Whoops just saw your thoughts on top mounts, thanks!
 
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concretejungle said:
Being devils advocate here...so an air to air can get heat soak when sitting still. Ok so what's the difference then not having an IC at all? I see it as an improvement over stock. Can't be any worse then no IC at all. True if you are going by pure HP numbers then fine, spend the money on the water tank, pump, plumbing plus the IC. Or just go with a cheaper IC like blarsen did. Just my 2 cents.
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True tbat-no difference than not having an IC once it heat soaks-unless there is some misting system to cool it below ambient. Maybe we can route it through an ARB fridge at low speed.
 
scottryana said:
So look at it this way, the only heat sink in an air to air system is the aluminum intercooler if you get it hot and there is little/no air moving over it, it is going to stay hot.

Now in an air to water system you have an aluminum intercooler that gets hot, it has water pumped over it, that water gets warm and dumps into a 6 gallon holding tank dispersing the heat, then it is pumped into a heat exchanger with a fan further removing more heat, before being pumped back to the intercooler.

But with bumpers, off road lights, winches, slow speeds, stop and go, hills and towing, I don't think it is the right way to go. Just my opinion.
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This was basically our logic behind going with WAIC. There is a lot of reading on the efficiency of water cooled for truck conditions.
It is notable, I think, that the newer TRD SC's went with water for intercooling for trucks.

concretejungle said:
Being devils advocate here...so an air to air can get heat soak when sitting still. Ok so what's the difference then not having an IC at all? I see it as an improvement over stock. Can't be any worse then no IC at all.
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I think this is a matter of cost (time, money, effort) vs. gain in performance.

I honestly think AA won't do much on the trail or slow speeds where the "ram air" effect is minimal.

Also, AAIC placement is pretty crucial.
FMIC's - I can see it being the best for trucks. Less vulnerable to heat soak,
but reduced radiator cooling and/or more pressure drop and/or laggy throttle response. (long pipes)
but the benefits of FMIC means most choose this for boosted motors.

TMIC's are good for boosted motors because of minimal pressure drop but
the big weakness of TMIC's is very easy heat soak.

You have to think of AAIC's as radiators.
If ambient around the IC is hotter than IAT, it will reverse the process and heat up your intake air.
That is the potential of a too small TMAAIC.

WAIC does not have these issues. The drawback of WAIC is the complexity.

Anyway, JMHO. THese are the thoughts that led us to use WAIC.

If you go AAIC, I would go FMIC. I believe that would be the most effective AAIC.
again, jmo.
 
Never dead set in an assessment, if you have experience where you were driving a stock Supra at speed and it heat soaked that is good to know. But how do you know that it was heat soaked, were you monitoring IAT's? If you are talking about on a dyno with a fan, I would argue that a fan is no where near the air volume of driving at speed.

I think the top mount with a scoop is good at speeds and the scoop can probably pull enough air to cool the core, but if you are going slow and working the engine hard, could be in sand, mud, hills, etc, all of that heat from the motor and exhaust manifold make the top of the engine HOT! Take a thin piece of metal and zip tie it to the to top of your engine then go work your truck hard, or sit in traffic in the summer. Pop the hood and put your hand on top of that metal. You will not want to keep your hand on it long if at all, I guarantee it will be much hotter than ambient. So depending on how hot the intake air is, you could actually be heating it rather than cooling it. Again this is only at crawling speeds but if you use your truck that way it is something that needs to be taken into account.
 
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I'm not being defensive or attacking. I appreciate the input bc I'm considering one eventually.

So, IMHO I don't really care about heat soak on the trail or even sitting at a stop light. I'm more concerned about improving long distance performance. When I'm in low range on the trail I don't really care that often about the extra HP.

I do care when I'm cruising I70 for 14 hours at 75mph.
 
If you are going to be cruising at 75mph under boost for hours at a time, and have room for a front mount I would go that way. Not sure what all you have on the front of your truck but going to be tricky routing the plumbing. I have seen it under the frame which I didn't like.
 
No replacement for displacement. A healthy 6.1 Mopar Hemi will supply ~450 horse and ~440 lb-ft torque all day long on pump gas and it won't run hot. It is a very simple 2-valve pushrod motor that has aftermarket support for stand-alone electronic engine controls.

I have battled detonation and coolant temps for over ten years with my blown 1FZ. I do not regret any of it but when this motor or blower lets go I am gonna figure out a way to use a 6.1. My SRT8 Challenger has sold me on that power plant.


Oh, the exhaust note makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up..........:lol:
 
cruiserdan said:
No replacement for displacement. A healthy 6.1 Mopar Hemi will supply ~450 horse and ~440 lb-ft torque all day long on pump gas and it won't run hot. It is a very simple 2-valve pushrod motor that has aftermarket support for stand-alone electronic engine controls. I have battled detonation and coolant temps for over ten years with my blown 1FZ. I do not regret any of it but when this motor or blower lets go I am gonna figure out a way to use a 6.1. My SRT8 Challenger has sold me on that power plant. Oh, the exhaust note makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up..........:lol:
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Get the cut off wheels out and ready. I seriously think that 6.1L wouldn't fit, the Hemi's are super wide. Plus you can get more power out of a gen 3 and 4 GM motor ;)

Sent from my iPhone using IH8MUD
 
I'm an old MOPER dude and there aint no way a GM motor is in the cards. Besides I spent 2 years as a GM Parts Manager and that was plenty enuf exposure to the product.
 
scottryana said:
Displacement is a great thing and both the Hemi and LS have come a long way since the 80's when the 1FZ was developed and the equivalent domestic was a poor option.
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agreed!

Sent from my iPhone using IH8MUD
 
scottryana said:
To each their own and I won't make any more posts here because I have pulled the topic far enough off track, but a top mount intercooler can also heat the air up, if you aren't moving. Think about it, it acts just as well heating as it does cooling. heat from the engine and exhaust manifold rise, heat the fins, air goes through and instead of being cooled it picks up heat. Fine at speeds with the scoop, no good low range, working hard. $0.02
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I agree, but I plan on doing a top-mount with a scoop, and insulating all around the IC, much like the insulation you'll see when you pop the hood of a WRX STi. Helps isolate the IC from surrounding ambient heat, and keep it cool (as compared to the surrounding engine bay temps) when not at highway speeds.

I'm I'm not too concerned with temporary heatsoak while in stop-n-go traffic, cuz I don't need the IC or S/C @ that point. I need it when I'm getting on the throttle at highway speeds.

My $0.02.
 
Has any body changed the oil in their supercharger yet? I want to change the oil in my wife's SC in her LX450 but don't want to use he wrong stuff. The local dealer told me that Canadan dealers can't get the right TRD oil. Apparently it is different stuff than the newer TRD SCs use.
 
Gone Johnson.
 
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