Cromagnon
SILVER Star
So...who is HaryV? MIT Dr. of thermo? It may be pointless to you but I can appreciate a good discussion on anything 40 related.
To thermostat or not to thermostat (2 Viewers)
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Cromagnon
SILVER Star
I would love to see the documentation on this. As I was taught, conduction is the mechanical transference of thermal energy. Here is a direct quote from Serway and Beichner's PHYSICS 5th edition, " Conduction, convection, and radiation are the three forms of thermal energy transfer. Conduction involves direct contact with molecules, convection involves moving hot particles, and the motion of electromagnetic waves involves radiation. "
I'm not a physicist, my thinking is that all these transferals happen at the quantum level and involve fields.
AFAIK fields involve quaunta, aka photons.
So, in that sense, my statement does not conflict with Serway and Beichner.
middlecalf
SILVER Star
This is fun, got to go dig up my old heat transfer texts - they’re approaching 40 yrs old, 
. Good stuff. As long as I don’t have to go through the aerothermochemistry text, that sucked.
. Good stuff. As long as I don’t have to go through the aerothermochemistry text, that sucked.
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In other words the 3 basic forms of heat transfer are true but all three can be broken down in much greater detail. Plenty of documentation on this but when I try to understand it my head begins to hurt and I decide that the basic 3 forms are good enough for me.
That's awesome Steamer! It's great you put this theory to the test. Nice work.
Cromagnon
SILVER Star
Just tried to understand wave-particle duality in "Quantum Mechanics: An Introduction", Greiner, where he states "current scientific theory holds that all particles exhibit a wave nature and vice versa." He circles around the subject so it appears that if you are inside the circle you see one thing and if you are outside the circle you see something different but in reality they are the same. My physics proffesor gave me that book in '06 and I never opened it until today. Now my head hurts too!!!
rkymtnflyfisher
Trout Bum
HaryV is a character from the bowels of chit-chat
John McVicker
SILVER Star
^^^
And do not...do not, I repeat do not actually tag his name...he is not needed to have a sane discussion on this subject. Or any other for that matter.
And do not...do not, I repeat do not actually tag his name...he is not needed to have a sane discussion on this subject. Or any other for that matter.
Cromagnon
SILVER Star
Sorry the humor was lost on me, it must have been a good read from the sound of things.
Out of curiosity I checked out a few of those chit chat threads. No need...Sorry the humor was lost on me, it must have been a good read from the sound of things.
rkymtnflyfisher
Trout Bum
Sorry the humor was lost on me, it must have been a good read from the sound of things.
It's a whole different circus over in chat. Not the kind for kids either.
that's the reason I don't go to chat anymore, been probably 10 years since I spent anytime there
brian
SILVER Star
this sounds like beetle juice, and i feel like rolling the dice.
WarDamnEagle
SILVER Star
Sorry but not correct about the photons or the "...don't know how fast the coolant is flowing" because they do in a way. Correct about the turbulence.
x2
Heat is energy and and is transferred by photons. AFAIK there is no other way energy gets from one place to another, conduction included.
However, I am not a physicist and I'm willing to hear from anyone who is informed on this subject.
The way I see it, and how it is pertinent to this thread, is that the exchange of heat happens in such a way that as the speed of the coolant
through the engine and cooling system increases there is no logical way it will reduce that exchange.
Photons......that's kinda funny. Here is an excerpt for your reading pleasure:
In conduction and convection, heat is transferred by movement of electrons, vibrational energy, and collisions of molecules and atoms, not by photons. In heat transfer by radiation, photons do carry the energy. The photon can be absorbed by increasing rotational or vibrational quantized energy levels, not just electronic energy levels.
In heat transfer, the more turbulent the flow at the boundary layer of the fluid, the more effective the heat transfer. If you needed the coolant to "go slow" why don't you need the air on the other side of the radiator to "go slow"? Because you don't. You want both to go fast as possible so that there is not a laminar boundary layer at the metal surface on either side which slows down heat transfer considerably.
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The quantum level physics is not relevant to the OPs problem.
It has been mentioned, but needs to be reiterated, that the thermostat need to close the bypass hose, otherwise much of the coolant will take the easier path going through the bypass hose and BYPASSing the longer path through the radiator.
Test a cool (75° or 82°C) stat in a pot of heating water, verify with digital thermometer that stat opens fully at rated temp.
Install verified stat correctly with upper seal in place.
Coolant mix should be no more than 50% glycol.
Verify that cap holds pressure, and then drive vehicle to test.
Coolant temp shouldn't go much more than 5°C above T-stat temp.
It has been mentioned, but needs to be reiterated, that the thermostat need to close the bypass hose, otherwise much of the coolant will take the easier path going through the bypass hose and BYPASSing the longer path through the radiator.
Test a cool (75° or 82°C) stat in a pot of heating water, verify with digital thermometer that stat opens fully at rated temp.
Install verified stat correctly with upper seal in place.
Coolant mix should be no more than 50% glycol.
Verify that cap holds pressure, and then drive vehicle to test.
Coolant temp shouldn't go much more than 5°C above T-stat temp.
I'm happy for the correction - the knowledge is useful and I find the subject interesting.Sorry but not correct about the photons or the "...don't know how fast the coolant is flowing" because they do in a way. Correct about the turbulence.
x2
Photons......that's kinda funny. Here is an excerpt for your reading pleasure:
In conduction and convection, heat is transferred by movement of electrons, vibrational energy, and collisions of molecules and atoms, not by photons. In heat transfer by radiation, photons do carry the energy. The photon can be absorbed by increasing rotational or vibrational quantized energy levels, not just electronic energy levels.
In heat transfer, the more turbulent the flow at the boundary layer of the fluid, the more effective the heat transfer. If you needed the coolant to "go slow" why don't you need the air on the other side of the radiator to "go slow"? Because you don't. You want both to go fast as possible so that there is not a laminar boundary layer at the metal surface on either side which slows down heat transfer considerably.
I stand by my statement that the engine/radiator do not know how fast the coolant is going. They function at a broad range of flow rates.
My point was that there is no correlation between the flow rate and cooling (unless it is standing still or so slow it starts boiling).
WarDamnEagle
SILVER Star
Sorry but there is a direct correlation. If you want to do your own research just google "laminar vs turbulent flow heat transfer". I think you will quickly see the correlation. Here's the first thing that pops up:
Turbulent flow, due to the agitation factor, develops no insulating blanket and heat is transferred very rapidly. Turbulent flow occurs when the velocity in a given water channel is high. ... Laminar flow develops an insulating blanket around the channel wall and restricts heat transfer.
That was stated poorly by me. I meant to restate that there is no reduction in cooling with an increase in flow rate as I previously posted.
Been in the plastics business for a long time. Most effective and efficient transfer of cool or heat is turbulent flow. Laminar is what is always avoided through molds and extruders. When sizing temperature control units they are always sized to produce a turbulent flow. This discussion is interesting but what fj40 Jim says will deliver optimum cooling for your 40
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