The Resurection of 'The Beast' (1 Viewer)

[oldfj40]

Great to see some more progress.
Good luck at GSMTR.

 

[yooper]

Wow she cleaned up nice! I actually did quite a bit of engine bay cleaning myself, although it was a little harder to do a good job with the engine in! I think I did save you some work though.

Fixing that exhaust leak is gonna make things extra quiet.

Have you considered adding sound insulation on the firewall and/or tunnel? Sealing up all the holes in the firewall with some kind of sealant will cut down on noise in the cabin too...

 

[yooper]

Don't forget to clean the engine before you put it back in!

 

[Southeast Overland]

Yoop - I wouldn't have considered cleaning the engine bay this well with the engine in. If the engine would have been in I wouldn't have touched it but I couldn't pass up this chance. I probably scrubbed for three hours.

I also will clean the 2F really well before I drop it back in. I'll have to take a few more pieces off before I repaint. I also don't want to cry the first time I hit a mud hole.

I will pick up some sealant and patch up holes in the fire wall. Fixing the exhaust leak (new manifold gasket) will fix that. Actually there were two leaks there.

I've thought about putting some SecondSkin on the firewall to quiet things down. I've got some thin padding on the floor that doesn't do too much. The roof is a source of a good bit of noise right now with the headliner and insulation out. I'm not sure what I'll do about that since the roof has a tad bit of rust. It hasn't peeped back out yet since I treated it w/ POR a year ago. I have sourced a new roof locally that I could weld on but the motor problems have put me behind schedule.

 

[Southeast Overland]

Stay tuned for an update with pics. Trollhole was nice enough to come over and help me jump head first into my 2F.

Here is a little tease. Who said you need a C-clip? Cam is fried, most lifters were hard to get out, edges of some lifters are rough, ton of carbon in oil pan (thought it was metal but didn't stick to a magnet), cap at rear of cam shaft was loose and about to come out...gonna be a lot more work.

 

[Southeast Overland]

Here are the promised pics with info. Please speak up about anything you see. I am going to put an engine rebuild post over in the 40/55 tech section to get more feedback but that won't happen for a couple of days due to lack of time.

Once again Trollhole was nice enough to come over and spend several hours coaching me yesterday on tearing down my 2F. For whatever reason I am totally comfortable with bodywork or even designing, bending and installing a cage but when it comes to tearing into a motor I'm outside of my comfort area (probably because I've never done it before).

We made a ton of good progress and much more than I would have made on my own. Also, forgive any incorrect terminology that I use. I'm a newb with tearing into motors so I know I'll call some things by the wrong name.

Here is what we did...

Before Trollhole arrived I took out my steering intermediate shaft to replace the U-joints. 7 out of 8 bearings were totally dry.

Most bearings if not all had significant play. I didn't install my OEM replacements b/c I am going to media blast and repaint.

Then Trollhole arrived. We pulled bellhousing and clutch.

Put 2F on engine stand. Clutch was still plenty thick but the clutch plate had hot spots and cracks. It will have to be machined.

Dropped oil pan. Even though my 2F sat on its oil pan for a few months the pan came right off. There was a ton of debris in the bottom of the pan. At first we feared it was metal but we believe it was carbon. (Note in upcoming pic carbon on pistons.) I put a magnet to the debris and it did not stick. At this point we were headed in the right direction. (Note that much of the crud in my oil pan had already been removed for inspection before we took these pics.)

Rotated the 2F on the engine stand (upside down) and took a look into the lower part of the engine. The camshaft looked horrible. I could even see that! Now we were headed in the wrong direction and we never looked back.

We pulled the timing cover and what do ya know there wasn't a C-clip keeping the timing gear in place on the camshaft. This meant that the camshaft had about 1/16 of an inch of play inside the motor and was bouncing around...good stuff! Also, the timing gear on the cam had issues. Several teeth near the rear were rough. I'll probably replace it also.

We pulled the camshaft. The camshaft is shot. It is horribly worn.

 

[Trollhole]

That motor was toast. So many thing going on once we pulled the oil pan. Huge amounts of what looked to be carbon in the pan. That or a sealant material that had been hardened. Then I notice the cam. Toast. Pitted and worn to one side. Was a sign of thing to come. Juice pulled the valve cover and he yanked the rockers. ANother issue. Both #6 connecting rods were of the newer style. (smaller diameter). Not a huge deal but if your rebuilding the top end right why not put the right connect rods in that match all the rest? WIll beinteresting to see what #6 piston and valves look like. AT this point I told him we could button it all back up and just run it until it blows. Not someing Juice wanted to do. SO we took the timing cover off. And there was the issue. No c'clip on the camshaft. Cam gear had been walking around the cam for god knows how long. Looks like the clip was nowhere to be found. Also the cam gear looked like it had been installed with a sledge hammer. It was all beat up. Why anyone would get this far into an engine rebuild and cheap out on this is beyond me. Sad because I'm sure some of the PO's had no idea they had a ticking timebomb on their hands. So we yanked the cam and inspected the bearings. Toast. All but one was worn or missing chunks. The cam was junk. Would have to have every lobe fixed and that is not cheap. A new one as well as a new cam gear is in order. The we noticed the cam plug. It poped out with my finger. At this point we new it was going to need a complete rebuild. Head will be coming off. Sorry Juice for all the problems.

 

[Southeast Overland]

[FONT=&quot]Front and rear camshaft bearings are pretty worn. I will replace all camshaft bearings. Here is a pic of the front bearing.

During its dance inside my motor it almost knocked out the rear camshaft cap on the motor. You can move it around with your fingers. I'm VERY glad I tore into my 2F because if I hadn't the sucker could have gone at any moment. I couldn't get a good pic of the cap moving around but I do have a pic of the end of my camshaft.

I need an impact screwdriver (or whatever you call it) to pull the timing cover to get the crank out so that will have to wait. Trollhole is letting me borrow his.

We rotated the motor back upright. We pulled the valve cover (no surprises there - pretty simple) and pulled the rockers in one piece (no surprises there).

We are headed in the right direction again!

Then we took a look at my push rods. A Toyota dealership rebuilt my 2F's upper end at some point in the past (~ 6-8 years, I have a receipt somewhere.) The rear 2 push rods were a much lighter weight design than the front 10. These two will be replaced.

Rotated the motor back over to drop out the lifters. All had to be given at least a slight persuasion to drop out. Some were much harder than others. Most looked pretty good but a few had rough tops and even worse rough edges. I need to find out if these can be machined or if I need to purchase new ones. I'm leaning towards purchasing new ones. Should I have the areas that the lifters ride in honed?

Lifter #1

Lifter #2

Lifter #3

Lifter #4

Lifter #5

Lifter #6

Lifter #7

Lifter #8

Lifter #9

Lifter #10

Lifter #11

Lifter #12

[/FONT]

 

[Southeast Overland]

[FONT=&quot]I believe this was about the time Trollhole left and gave me some homework to finish.

Rotated the motor back over and pulled the head. Headgasket looked good. (Sorry, no pic.) I took some pics of the underside of the head. I don't plan on doing any work to the head besides a new gasket.

I probably got the terminology wrong. Valve 1.

Valve 2.

Valve 3.

Valve 4.

Valve 5.

Valve 6.

Now I could look down into my cylinders and at the top of my pistons. There was what I thought to be some major carbon build-up on tops of several of the pistons. Should I be worried about this?

Piston 1.

Piston 2.

Piston 3.

Piston 4.

Piston 5.

Piston 6.

[/FONT]

 

[Southeast Overland]

I took some pics looking down into all 6 cylinders. Trollhole said some looked a little worn (I'm guessing due to lack of cross hatching). I ran my finger along the inside of all cylinders and didn't feel any rough spots. Should these be honed?

Piston #1 looking to the rear and then the front.

Piston #2 looking to the rear and then the front.

Piston #3 looking to the rear and then the front.

Piston #4 looking to the rear and then the front.

Piston #5 looking to the rear and then the front.

Piston #6 looking to the rear and then the front.

A days work...

Now to start making a list of everything I now need to do. This is getting expensive and wearing on me a bit but oh well. I would love to have this done by the fall for UC's Over the Mountain Tour at Tellico but I have my doubts. My new goal is to have my Piggie running again for next year's GSMTR.

I'm headed over to Trollhole's now to repay the favor. We will be working on his Big Gay 2F.

Again, please speak up if you see anything that I should know. I'm trying not to rush through things so this rebuild is done right. I don't want to go off the deep end (and paint my 2F funny colors) but I do not want to have to pull my motor to do major work on it again in the near future if at all possible. I'm aiming for a mild lower end rebuild here.

 

[Southeast Overland]

That motor was toast. So many thing going on once we pulled the oil pan. Huge amounts of what looked to be carbon in the pan. That or a sealant material that had been hardened. Then I notice the cam. Toast. Pitted and worn to one side. Was a sign of thing to come. Juice pulled the valve cover and he yanked the rockers. ANother issue. Both #6 connecting rods were of the newer style. (smaller diameter). Not a huge deal but if your rebuilding the top end right why not put the right connect rods in that match all the rest? WIll beinteresting to see what #6 piston and valves look like. AT this point I told him we could button it all back up and just run it until it blows. Not someing Juice wanted to do. SO we took the timing cover off. And there was the issue. No c'clip on the camshaft. Cam gear had been walking around the cam for god knows how long. Looks like the clip was nowhere to be found. Also the cam gear looked like it had been installed with a sledge hammer. It was all beat up. Why anyone would get this far into an engine rebuild and cheap out on this is beyond me. Sad because I'm sure some of the PO's had no idea they had a ticking timebomb on their hands. So we yanked the cam and inspected the bearings. Toast. All but one was worn or missing chunks. The cam was junk. Would have to have every lobe fixed and that is not cheap. A new one as well as a new cam gear is in order. The we noticed the cam plug. It poped out with my finger. At this point we new it was going to need a complete rebuild. Head will be coming off. Sorry Juice for all the problems.

Thanks for all the help yesterday! I'm going to grab a quick bite to eat and be headed your direction. Should be there by about 10:15 or so.

 

[Carp]

Wow, good amount of work done there. Good for you. Sorry to hear that it's going to be a bigger job than originally planned. Cam looks bad, but i've seen them with an entire lobe worn off, so it could be worse.

If I were you, I'd look at new lifters as well, especially since you're putting a new cam in it. By the time you pay to have those machined (I wouldn't run them on the new cam as is), you could probably buy some new ones.

Since I can't remember the compression numbers, if they were good, I'd probably leave the pistons, cylinders, and head alone and do the mild rebuild. Otherwise, have the cylinders checked for round and look at valve job on the head. Are you going to pull the pistons? Was there any blowby before?

Good luck, Juice, and if you want a hand, let me know.

 

[yooper]

Holy Crap!

That engine was rebuilt by a Toyota dealership in Washington one or two PO's before TJK. They also rebuilt the transmission and transfer I think. You might want to inspect those, at least drop the tranny pan and split the case.

 

[Trollhole]

Wow, good amount of work done there. Good for you. Sorry to hear that it's going to be a bigger job than originally planned. Cam looks bad, but i've seen them with an entire lobe worn off, so it could be worse.

If I were you, I'd look at new lifters as well, especially since you're putting a new cam in it. By the time you pay to have those machined (I wouldn't run them on the new cam as is), you could probably buy some new ones.

Since I can't remember the compression numbers, if they were good, I'd probably leave the pistons, cylinders, and head alone and do the mild rebuild. Otherwise, have the cylinders checked for round and look at valve job on the head. Are you going to pull the pistons? Was there any blowby before?

Good luck, Juice, and if you want a hand, let me know.

I was thinking of a hone and new set of rings. Might as well since the machine shop is going to have to replace the cam bearings.

 

[Carp]

I was thinking of a hone and new set of rings. Might as well since the machine shop is going to have to replace the cam bearings.

I completely agree. If you want a good reliable engine you don't have to worry with, having it mic'ed, honed and ringed should help that cause. Cleaning the pistons should be no problem in standard machine shop vats. (

I didn't know that the cam bearings needed to be installed via machine shop. Good info. (Of course, I've never built a F motor. Multiple 22R's, SBCs, and other brands, but no F).

BTW, what did the crank look like? Wasn't that the suspected culprit?

 

[Southeast Overland]

Thanks for the offer of help Carp - I'll probably take several of y'all up on it when I put this motor back together. I talked with Marshall again yesterday and I think I have a handle on getting everything apart correctly but will want help putting everything back together right.

As I currently sit I'm looking at doing the following...

- New lifters
- New cam
- New timing gear on the cam
- at least 2 new push rods
- hone cylinders
- new rings
- new head, valve cover, oil pan, rear main, timing cover gasket and timing cover seal
- new crank
- new cam bearings
- new cam cap
- hot tank as much as possible and paint
- not touching the head

Argh...

 

[Southeast Overland]

Holy Crap!

That engine was rebuilt by a Toyota dealership in Washington one or two PO's before TJK. They also rebuilt the transmission and transfer I think. You might want to inspect those, at least drop the tranny pan and split the case.

I believe according to TJK the tranny and tcase were rebuilt by a cruiser guy privately. On the way back from IPOR and the spring over the tranny gave way and TJK was able to locate a tranny but the tcase had to go w/.

 

[FJ40Jim]

[FONT=&quot]I believe this was about the time Trollhole left and gave me some homework to finish.

Rotated the motor back over and pulled the head. Headgasket looked good. (Sorry, no pic.) I took some pics of the underside of the head. I don't plan on doing any work to the head besides a new gasket.

Valve 2.

Valve 3.

Valve 4.

Now I could look down into my cylinders and at the top of my pistons. There was what I thought to be some major carbon build-up on tops of several of the pistons. Should I be worried about this?

Carbon on pistons is normal in a carbon-fueled engine.

The pics of the valves above are butchery. Note how the incompetent previous repair was unable to achieve the proper press fit of the exhaust valve seats, so a punch was used to peen the casting around the seat and (hopefully) retain the valve seat more securely.
This is very bad. Valve seats that break up while the engine is running can cause catastrophic engine failure.

Please throw the head away and use another 1975-80 head casting.

Or use the 81-87 2F that you got as a backup.

 

[redcorn]

The soggy 2F you have could drop right in there.

Drop the oilpan and remove the side cover and spark plugs and hit it with Kreen or a diesel douche to the top end.
Rotate the crank a few times to remove as much h2O as possible.

As tough as Toyota built these engines, I bet it is in great shape.

Man this is getting expensive

 

[Carp]

The pics of the valves above are butchery. Note how the incompetent previous repair was unable to achieve the proper press fit of the exhaust valve seats, so a punch was used to peen the casting around the seat and (hopefully) retain the valve seat more securely.
This is very bad. Valve seats that break up while the engine is running can cause catastrophic engine failure.

:EEK!: What an eye for detail. That's scary that someone would do that. Never seen that before.