Metaltech roll cage rear tie-in kit advice

[truggier]

Ok, tired of searching, can't seem to find just the information that I want. I purchased a rear roll cage tie-in kit from Metaltech, but it came with no instructions whatsoever. What I got from them is shown in the picture below. I have a full roll cage with 6 posts and it is already pre-fabbed. The posts terminate in 3"x3" square plates. So my questions are:

1) Does the large plate in the kit go under the wheel well or on top of the wheel well? I'm guessing under but I've seen pics where people have put this on top (the rear 4 posts are welded directly to the large plate). It would seem better to have a plate on top and bottom actually...

2) Why no tie-in for the middle set of roll cage posts? There's only two tubes supplied and these go to the back roll cage posts as far as I can tell. The middle post and back post will be connected by the plate, and if the plate goes underneath the wheel well then the plate will be welded to the rear tie-in, but it seems better to have a direct tie-in for the middle set of posts....

Thanks in advance for any wisdom shared.

 

[Bang Bang]

First, if you call MT and talk with Mark or LT, you'll get all the answers you need.
Second, I do believe the kit comes with 4 plates, one for the top and one for the bottom for both sides. That is the only way I have seen that done with the MT kit. They may have inadvertently left the other 2 out of the kit. Once again, a phone call will clear that up.
Third, I guess you could put in another tie-in in the middle of the 2 rear hoops but I don't see where it is needed. The plates allow for the load to be distributed between the 2 hoops and you would have to do some funny bends (I think) to get them mounted more forward. But I guess you can't ever be too careful.

The moral of the story is: Call Mark or LT and they will get you straight. Both great guys to talk to.

 

[truggier]

Thanks for the reply. I ordered three things at once (roll cage tie-ins, sliders, and front tube fenders). I called to ask for install instructions and spoke with Mark, who was very helpful, and sent install instructions for the tube fenders but not the tie-ins. Not sure if written up instructions exist but you're right a call certainly would clear things up. Problem is this is a Sunday and I wanted to get this in today.

 

[camcruiser13]

Use your imagination. There is many ways to skin a cat.

 

[truggier]

Use your imagination. There is many ways to skin a cat.

I totally agree. I just wanted to find out the original intention of the kit...and I don't have a tubing bender.

 

[Scott Parsley]

since it's the weekend maybe you can hit them up on facebook for an answer? Who knows, someone might be logged on today.

 

[BDSeff1fitty]

the 2 bars i have going under the B hoop to the frame. the 2 long plates sandwich between the tubes and body going to the back hoop. scab plates go between the frame and the 2 bars.

if you don't understand that pm me and i'll see if i can't track down some photos

 

[truggier]

the 2 bars i have going under the B hoop to the frame. the 2 long plates sandwich between the tubes and body going to the back hoop. scab plates go between the frame and the 2 bars.

if you don't understand that pm me and i'll see if i can't track down some photos

Hey, thanks. I understand what you are saying...I'm interested to see if MT thinks the tubes to the chassis should go to the back hoop or the middle hoop.

If the kit does not come with 4 long plates, I have some 3/16" T x 4" W bar stock I can use to make my own. Unfortunately the long plates supplied in the kit are not quite long enough and don't completely span the distance between the posts on the back hoop and middle hoop, so I'm going to need to do something creative.

 

[bomb69tech]

I have a MT cage that they built with the rear tie ins. The MT cgae is tied togther ontop of the tub at the B aand C pillars so the tie in plate goes to the bottom of the wheel well and you bolt the two plates together sandwiching the wheel well. This distributes the weight more evenly. The bar is welded to the oval scab and the plate at the rear or C pillar the the scab welded to the frame. I have tie ins at the 4 corners presently.

 

[Fast Eddy]

If you're only doing two frame-ties they should probably be at the b-pillars.

 

[helocat]

I have a MT cage that they built with the rear tie ins. The MT cgae is tied togther ontop of the tub at the B aand C pillars so the tie in plate goes to the bottom of the wheel well and you bolt the two plates together sandwiching the wheel well. This distributes the weight more evenly. The bar is welded to the oval scab and the plate at the rear or C pillar the the scab welded to the frame. I have tie ins at the 4 corners presently.

Bingo.


Ok, yes was not in the shop on Sunday so did not see your post or your e-mail. We have not had written instructions for the frame ties. When they are used with our cage's the large plate you get in the tie kit is the rear main mount inside the tub. So lets brake it down.

Large plates, go in the wheel well and are bolted through the tub to the roll cage.

Small plates, these elliptical scab (No vertical or horizontal welds on the frame this way) plates are welded to the frame.

Tubes, are extra long you trim them down to fit the location you chose to run them from the frame to the large backing plates.


How to do it all:

• First decide if you want the tube drop from the tub to the frame in front of the axle or behind it.
• Next bolt the backing plate in the wheel well to your existing cage.
• Next locate the best point for your frame tie on the frame. Tack it to the frame where you can remove it.
• Now trim/miter the tube drop to fit to the backing plate at the tub and the frame scab plate. Tack the tube in place at frame scab and backing plate.
• Cut your frame tack on the scab plate and unbolt to remove the bolts for the backing plate. Drop the assembly down and finish welding it taking care to not over heat it and distort the assembly. (NOTE: You may wish to paint the whole assemble minus where the scab plate will be welded to the frame)
• Re bolt the backing plate of the now assembly to the tub, take care to clamp the scab plate to the frame.
• Fully weld the scab plate to the frame. Done.

FAQ:

Q. Why just one tube dropping to the frame?
A. With the backing plate 3/16" thick and the Metal-tech 4x4 cage mounting plate also 3/16" thick, you have a total of 3/8" of steel distributed across your fender. At the same time the fender is sandwiched between them. With all of our cages having two points on each side on the mounting plates they are very strong. The tie to the frame is also very ridged so one tube drop to the frame is all that is needed*. This cuts done on clutter welded to the frame, weight and cost. Of course we can provide a 2nd set of tube drops and scab plates for their added cost.

Q. I have seen trucks with "Bushings" at frame ties does my 40 need these?
A. Trucks with real soft body mounts should have a bushing on their frame ties. Anyone who has held an FJ40 body mount knows they are not soft. We eliminate this "flex" point since it is not needed. With this flex removed, when the truck does go over the tube is saved since the cage mount will not distort the area where its mounted.

This is written and built based on now 12yrs of experience building more roll cages for FJ40's than any other company. Our frame ties have been tested more times than anyone would like. Every time doing their job exactly the way they are meant to.


*rusted falling apart tub's are the ones that should have two tube drops to the frame. We know of more than one truck that the tub is held to the frame by the frame ties since the body mounts are almost 100% rusted off!

Mark

 

[Lake Rat]

Bingo.


Ok, yes was not in the shop on Sunday so did not see your post or your e-mail. We have not had written instructions for the frame ties. When they are used with our cage's the large plate you get in the tie kit is the rear main mount inside the tub. So lets brake it down.

Large plates, go in the wheel well and are bolted through the tub to the roll cage.

Small plates, these elliptical scab (No vertical or horizontal welds on the frame this way) plates are welded to the frame.

Tubes, are extra long you trim them down to fit the location you chose to run them from the frame to the large backing plates.


How to do it all:

• First decide if you want the tube drop from the tub to the frame in front of the axle or behind it.
• Next bolt the backing plate in the wheel well to your existing cage.
• Next locate the best point for your frame tie on the frame. Tack it to the frame where you can remove it.
• Now trim/miter the tube drop to fit to the backing plate at the tub and the frame scab plate. Tack the tube in place at frame scab and backing plate.
• Cut your frame tack on the scab plate and unbolt to remove the bolts for the backing plate. Drop the assembly down and finish welding it taking care to not over heat it and distort the assembly. (NOTE: You may wish to paint the whole assemble minus where the scab plate will be welded to the frame)
• Re bolt the backing plate of the now assembly to the tub, take care to clamp the scab plate to the frame.
• Fully weld the scab plate to the frame. Done.

FAQ:

Q. Why just one tube dropping to the frame?
A. With the backing plate 3/16" thick and the Metal-tech 4x4 cage mounting plate also 3/16" thick, you have a total of 3/8" of steel distributed across your fender. At the same time the fender is sandwiched between them. With all of our cages having two points on each side on the mounting plates they are very strong. The tie to the frame is also very ridged so one tube drop to the frame is all that is needed*. This cuts done on clutter welded to the frame, weight and cost. Of course we can provide a 2nd set of tube drops and scab plates for their added cost.

Q. I have seen trucks with "Bushings" at frame ties does my 40 need these?
A. Trucks with real soft body mounts should have a bushing on their frame ties. Anyone who has held an FJ40 body mount knows they are not soft. We eliminate this "flex" point since it is not needed. With this flex removed, when the truck does go over the tube is saved since the cage mount will not distort the area where its mounted.

This is written and built based on now 12yrs of experience building more roll cages for FJ40's than any other company. Our frame ties have been tested more times than anyone would like. Every time doing their job exactly the way they are meant to.


*rusted falling apart tub's are the ones that should have two tube drops to the frame. We know of more than one truck that the tub is held to the frame by the frame ties since the body mounts are almost 100% rusted off!

Mark

Sorry for the Hi-jack, but I do have a question that's I've kinda wondered about- What do you do with the inner supports for the wheel wells? If the main hoop (like the stock hoop) bolts to the top side of the fender and has bolt holed through the fender support, do you cut away the fender support on the underside for the other long flat plates? Maybe I'm not explaining or asking correctly. I'm going to be tying in a cage I bought from MT a while back, I can make my own pieces, just not sure how to go around the fender supports on the bottom. Thanks

 

[lcwizard]

do you recommend careful rust proofing/sealing so mud and water don't get trapped between the inner fender and the plate?

 

[helocat]

Sorry for the Hi-jack, but I do have a question that's I've kinda wondered about- What do you do with the inner supports for the wheel wells? If the main hoop (like the stock hoop) bolts to the top side of the fender and has bolt holed through the fender support, do you cut away the fender support on the underside for the other long flat plates? Maybe I'm not explaining or asking correctly. I'm going to be tying in a cage I bought from MT a while back, I can make my own pieces, just not sure how to go around the fender supports on the bottom. Thanks

Yup in mid 1974 when Toyota FINALLY put their one roll, roll bar in they added the fender supports you are talking about. (NOTE: late model 40's like some JDM imports that did not come with a factory roll bar, do not have the supports.)

You have three options. 1. If they are rusty and not doing their job they can be removed/cut. 2. If they are healthy, do not cut them they are good to have. You can put the plate over the top of them and snug down the best you can. Not the best option but it has been done with success. (As in post roll success that everything did its job). 3. The hardest but probably the best, is to cut spacers to stand the plate away from the tub around the supports. I have used aluminum, plate steel etc. to make these in the past, also with good success.

Not recommended but I have seen done, is to not fully back the inner cage mount and just put a plate on the sides of the supports. Not a big fan of this since I like to see the full plate of the cage supported below the tub.


Bottom line when it comes to frame ties, you always want them in the front of the cage no matter what if you can. For the rear, if you have a healthy tub you can get away with out them. But for piece of mind and to help save your tub if you should go over, rear frame ties are a good thing to have.

Mark

 

[helocat]

do you recommend careful rust proofing/sealing so mud and water don't get trapped between the inner fender and the plate?

With any metal fabrication on the FJ40, care should always be given to properly prep, protect and maintain the area worked. This will differ for where one uses the truck as well. Fresh water cleaning and use of wheel well spray sealant are all parts of it. (Mainly the maintain part) Also how the truck is built (purpose) will very how much effort one puts into this topic. A truck in West Texas (thinking of a # of trucks here!), built for rocks in the warm months, that has a hammered body probably is not going to put much careful rust proofing/sealing work into it. But another truck built for street and light trails with a real nice body would. It comes down to the owner.

Mark

 

[Lake Rat]

Appreciate it Mark, the first two options you mentioned passed through my mind (very short trip mind you!!), but I didn't want to do it that way as I thought that would be taboo, evidently not, now I can move forward. You took pictures of me and my red 40 at Round Up '08 and hope to see you again.... this coming Round Up?. Sorry again for the hi jack.

 

[broth9640]

I will be doing this very soon to my 40. I ordered my cage about a week or so ago. I can't wait. Thanks for the info Mark. Anyone have any pictures of what we are talking about here?

Lake rat: I removed my wheel well supports in prep for the plate. I can't tell you how glad I am that I did that. It was heavily rusted underneath and would have eventually rotted out my wheel wells.
here is a few pics. First is the wheel well and the second is of the underside of my jump seat support bracket.

 

[Lake Rat]

I will be doing this very soon to my 40. I ordered my cage about a week or so ago. I can't wait. Thanks for the info Mark. Anyone have any pictures of what we are talking about here?

Lake rat: I removed my wheel well supports in prep for the plate. I can't tell you how glad I am that I did that. It was heavily rusted underneath and would have eventually rotted out my wheel wells.
here is a few pics. First is the wheel well and the second is of the underside of my jump seat support bracket.

Thanks for the picture, being mine is going to be a trail truck only, I'll cut them out.

 

[platypusREX]

I will be doing this very soon to my 40. I ordered my cage about a week or so ago. I can't wait. Thanks for the info Mark. Anyone have any pictures of what we are talking about here?

Lake rat: I removed my wheel well supports in prep for the plate. I can't tell you how glad I am that I did that. It was heavily rusted underneath and would have eventually rotted out my wheel wells.
here is a few pics. First is the wheel well and the second is of the underside of my jump seat support bracket.

Do you still have that part?

 

[broth9640]

Do you still have that part?

I have both the wheel well supports as well as the jump seat brackets. I will still be reusing the Jump seat brackets and one of the wheel well supports for the one that won't be tied into the frame. Not sure exactly how it's going to work, but I might end up not using them at all if the plate seems like ample support. Which part were you referring to?