Build Marion Rising: 1974 FJ40 FST

[65swb45]

Will do. I am fairly certain I know where on the carb you are referring to, but just to make sure, I should watch for any gas coming through the nozzles indicated by the arrows?

Yes.

 

[MadMace]

Before changing anything else out, I’d try with a fully charged battery.

Definitely will. Thank you. Interestingly, in some of the reading I did after searching the forum (40s that suddenly stopped running and wouldn't restart), I read a couple of posts that mentioned what you did--using a fully charged battery to restart. I never read the reasoning behind this.

Other than stronger cranking, any reason that a fully charged battery would have success where, say a half charged battery, would fail in restarting.

 

[Jdc1]

Definitely will. Thank you. Interestingly, in some of the reading I did after searching the forum (40s that suddenly stopped running and wouldn't restart), I read a couple of posts that mentioned what you did--using a fully charged battery to restart. I never read the reasoning behind this.

Other than stronger cranking, any reason that a fully charged battery would have success where, say a half charged battery, would fail in restarting.

I had some issues on the initial start on the 72 if the battery was low from cranking. Put it on the charger and she fired right up. I’m not an expert but it’s got to be that it doesn’t have enough spark unless it putting out enough voltage.

 

[MadMace]

Hi Dean. I had my share of problems with the red, Pertronix “Ignitor II”. “Giving Up On Pertronix”. It was only after I went to a DUI setup that I got thinking back on my red “Ignitor II” failures. I recalled that on at least two of the failures that occurred, I had tried starting the rig with a low battery. The Optima red was in good shape but was low due me leaving some lights or other devises switched on. Jumping or recharging the battery didn’t make the “Ignotor II” fire, but it was after an hour or more had passed, that it suddenly worked again.

It got me thinking about the “Overload” protection of the red “Ignitor II” I don’t know how it works inside there but thought maybe it’s like a thermal overload that was triggered by the low battery and then reset itself after a cooling down period.

It’s just a theory and thought it might be something to think about if you should try out the red module again.

Would a weakening battery cause the engine to suddenly stop with the Pertronix? If so, once I get her running, I should check the alternator. The alternator is the original.

Thank you for the link. I will definitely read through it. The more I can learn, the better.

 

[MadMace]

Yes.

Thanks Mark.

 

[thebigredrocker]

Not sure about Pert II, but on Pert I 65swb45 instructed me to bypass the ballast resistor.

 

[MadMace]

I had some issues on the initial start on the 72 if the battery was low from cranking. Put it on the charger and she fired right up. I’m not an expert but it’s got to be that it doesn’t have enough spark unless it putting out enough voltage.

Very interesting. Makes me wonder if it has something to do with the voltage regulator given that the charging function of the voltage regulator changes with different levels of battery charge.

 

[Jdc1]

Very interesting. Makes me wonder if it has something to do with the voltage regulator given that the charging function of the voltage regulator changes with different levels of battery charge.

Mine has the internally regulated alternator and 60 ignition. My course of action would be to charge the battery, and try to start it. If it’ll start and run on the points, check the timing and then swap in the pertronix and see what happens.

 

[MadMace]

Not sure about Pert II, but on Pert I 65swb45 instructed me to bypass the ballast resistor.

That is certainly something I need to consider if I reconnect it. I did not bypass the ballast resistor when I had it connected.

 

[65swb45]

Form follows function. If you understand the purpose of a ballast resistor, you will understand why it is not useful for this application.

My WAG why Pertronix would say otherwise has nothing to do with the purpose of the resistor, and everything to do with the fact that there are OTHER THINGS sometimes attached to it that get literally cut out of the circuit by installers who don’t really understand what they’re doing.

 

[MadMace]

Form follows function. If you understand the purpose of a ballast resistor, you will understand why it is not useful for this application.

My WAG why Pertronix would say otherwise has nothing to do with the purpose of the resistor, and everything to do with the fact that there are OTHER THINGS sometimes attached to it that get literally cut out of the circuit by installers who don’t really understand what they’re doing.

When I was hooking up the Pertronix I remember being confused about hooking it straight up to the + and - on the coil vs the ballast resistor and the - on the coil. I chose the latter which I now know is wrong.

As I now understand it, the ballast resistor is there to decrease the voltage going to the points after startup so as not to prematurely burn them out. Given that there are no points in a Pertronix, no ballast resistor is needed.

If that logic is correct, then when hooked up to a ballast resistor there is less than needed voltage going to the Pertronix unit. A weaker battery would likely worsen this problem? Might be oversimplifying it was too much.

Thanks again Mark. Your posts certainly make me think more about the "what and why's" of things than just doing something (or not) without understanding.

In the picture I indicate how I had originally hooked it up (it's back to it points setup in the picture). In hindsight, sounds like I should have disconnected all the wires from the + and - terminals on the coil and put the red wire from the Pertronix to the + post and the black wire to the - post. EZ-PZ lemon squeezy.

 

[middlecalf]

There should be some specs for the pertronix wrt required amps (at voltage) I would assume. Remember voltage is potential, akin to the water pressure at the faucet. Current (amperage) is like the temperature at the faucet. So when your cranking the engine a lot of the available current (at voltage) is going to the starter. It could be that with a depleted battery (with minimal cold cramping amps in reserve) you’re spinning the starter but there isn‘t sufficient current (at voltage) to get a spark current out of the pertronix. Of course I’m just adding to the diatribe here, lol.

 

[MadMace]

Merry Christmas all!!

One of the things I have on my "To Do" list is get Marion's E-Brake cleaned up/rebuilt. It has been functional but far from ideal. I wanted to take a little break (or brake, in this case) from the engine work that ya'll have been helping me with over the last week so I decided to tear into it. That and I also just got a nice, new shiny rebuild kit and shoes from Cruiser Outfitters--I'm excited to get it all changed out.

Started by taking off the rear propeller shaft (of course we drained the T-case oil first). From reading/preping for this, I thought this part would be easy. It wasn't complicated but it was hard to get the shaft to telescope in. I eventually had to get a ratchet strap wrapped through the front and back yokes and pull it together. It took a surprising amount tightening to get it pushed in. Once the shaft was off it was pretty easy going until I needed to get the little clip off the cable to remove it from the backing plate. Even after the clip was off, 45 years of grease, grime, and dirt opposed the removal of the cable. I was able to convince it with a little PB blaster and small twist with pliers.

The drum does have a small groove where the seal rides on it. Although it can be seen and felt I cannot catch my fingernail on it so it seems to be more of a blemish than anything. I have already purchased a Speedi-Sleeve that I will place on the shaft before I re-install it.

Shoes look to have a little glazing on them but I didn't notice any oil.

Ratchet strap around the front of the yoke to get it pulled in.

I expected worse, I was pleasantly surprised at how "clean" it was.

Groove on shaft of drum

 

[MadMace]

Couple of quick questions regarding the rebuild of the E-Brake.

I am going to replace the output shaft seal. I have read a lot about the Mudrak double seal modification--is that something ya'll would recommend while I have this torn down?

Also, I am going to make sure I don't lose the shims that come off with the speedo housing. If I use the same shim do I need to recheck pre-load?

Here is the specific Speedi-Sleeve I'm going to use.

 

[MadMace]

I almost forgot about one little side project. I have mentioned a BX2200 Kubota tractor that we have had to use as a "tug" for Marion on occasion. The most recent was this past weekend when the engine died in our driveway. Our driveway is on a slight decline so pushing Marion in ourselves was not an option--she's pretty "big-boned"--i.e. not too easy to push. Enter Mr. Kubota. Unfortunately, the power steering cylinder started leaking right as we were pushing her in.

I have been recurrently and pleasantly surprised at how much the "know-how" I have learned while working on Marion has translated directly to work I have done on the tractor. This time was no exception. The tie-rod ends have castle nuts, cotter pins, and I used the exact same tool to remove the tie rod ends from the "knuckle arms" on the tractor that I used on Marion. Boots (and lack thereof) was also a familiar sight.

Thank goodness for Messicks (parts supplier)--the part should be here Friday. Marion's tug will ready to push and/or pull on a moments notice in no time.

 

[MadMace]

Got a lot done today refreshing the E-Brake assembly/speedo-gear housing. I love when college football is on and I get to work on Marion--2 of my favorite things to do on a Saturday.

Before:

After cleaning with Ed's Red, coating with Ospho, the painting with high-temp paint

Speedi-Sleeve placed (99177). Instructions called for a non-hardening sealant so I used VersaChem Prime Seal No.3. Went on pretty easy.

Speedo-gear housing before

After Ed's Red, Ospho, and Hi-temp paint. Old seal out, new seal in place.

 

[MadMace]

Backing plate before

After Ed's Red, Ospho, and Hi-Temp paint

New shoes assembled, ready to be installed

E-Brake cable functions well but needs attention

Cut out the torn covering. Given that the cable functions well and the the covering is there to protect the cable, figured I replace the torn covering with this. It comes in Monday so I'll report back on how it turns out.

 

[MadMace]

As those parts were soaking in Ed's Red, I turned my attention back to the engine. I continue to think that my problem could very well be with spark. Here's why. Please correct any erroneous thinking or logic (or in my case lack thereof).

As I outlined previously, it looked like I was getting weak, intermittent sparking. I researched other ways to check for spark and came across this:

I ran this setup today with a fully charged battery. I did the "touch and go" as described multiple times and only got one faint spark. Most touches produced nothing--i.e. no spark.

Any other ways that I can test my coil? How about the ignitor?

 

[MadMace]

After looking in the FSM and seeing these specs for the coil, I decided to check primary and secondary resistance.

Primary resistance reading:

Secondary:

Resister resistance:

By those readings, I am out-of-spec, correct? It looks like I have an "F" ignition coil vs and "F (For USA)" coil. My resister also seems to be out of range as well.
I know that their are resistor type and non-resistor type coils. Doesn't it look like my coil is a non-resistor type? Maybe it got switched out for the original one that was a resistor type. Unfortunately, the info on the coil is too faded to read so I don't have a part number.

Any feedback/direction would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Steamer]

Dean, When I got my Ignitor II, Pertronix recomended their Flamethrower II coil. And their instructions said to remove the ballast resistor when using that coil. I mention this as you may be thinking of replacing some parts in question.
"Flamethrower II Installation Instructions"
I didn't have the extra terminal on my starter (auxiliary contact) so I had to use a relay to make the resistor bypass work. Going with the Flamethrower II coil I was able to eliminate the resistor and the relay.