At this point in this thread if you still haven’t figured out how to install these plates no amount of help from me will improve your understanding.
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How many people reside in your head?it’s a complicated assembly for a lot of people. it’s not clear to a lot of people and they would like it to be clearer before cutting.
somewhere in here someone was saying that they put a square against the bottom of the flange and aligned it with the two “ends” of original hole.
then drew two /vertical/ lines. this would not be the same distance. so it’s confusing rick. and i’m asking before i cut the flange.
... i’m just trying to make sure i understand it so i have the install instructions correct on the thread that is the install thread.
on the one hand you say to keep it tight and not get sloppy with the cut and on the other i’m still a tad confused about your answer on this geometry question (which seems pretty direct).
I think you aren't doing something right... You don't need to do anything with geometry. In fact, you don't even need to measure anything. Rick did that for you already and provided you with a template. The template is the plate itself. All you need to do is what was called out earlier:
1. bolt the plates (rear bolt only) into place firmly. (The front "pin" of the plate will sit in the front bolt hole)
2. Mark where the front hole of the plate lands on your stock bracket. (fully fill in the hole)
3. Remove the material that you just filled in.
4. Use a jack or muscle the axle to align the front bolt hole of the radius arm with the new hole location in the plate and bolt them together.
5. Weld the place onto the bracket. (you can drive just fine without welding. The weld is only to ensure that nothing moves, long term.
Things you don't need to worry about:
1. Square vs round cut on the stock bracket: The LandTank plate will now bear the loads that were originally handled by the stock bracket. The stock bracket just needs to be cleared to prevent interference. Once that is complete the correctly sized front hole of the bracket does what you need.
2. Geometry: You don't need to worry about vertical displacement vs displacement along the circumference of a circle for the rear-front bolt holes. The land tank plates are carefully designed to correct your caster by taking the proper geometry into account.
3. Distance between bolt holes: Again, the plates already place the location of the new front hole, providing the correct placing. You don't even need to measure anything.
My Opinion:
If you trust his product, just install per the instructions and trust that his calculations are correct. If you don't trust his product and want to double check the engineering behind his solution, you should examine completing the "cut and turn" approach and correct the caster to your own specifications.
My 2 cents.
rick. no one is being lazy or trying to take shortcuts. we are asking you for more help with the instructions. this appears to be the place to do it.
it says “4. Grind a slot into the bracket to allow the bolt to pass through.”
it’s a complicated assembly for a lot of people. it’s not clear to a lot of people and they would like it to be clearer before cutting.
if you don’t want to answer questions that’s on you.
I‘m betting I was R’s “guinea pig” - (or easily in the ‘dirty dozen’ to get his plates) - I had to convert from Slee’s pivot plates to LT’s ‘rotate’ plates & had to weld back axle mount material in the process.
I think I got a punchlist of materials & sized drillbits needed, but being a early adopter (long before he had a vendor, just him sending out goods) - and just setting the plates as they should to rotate the axle, making sure the location pegs faced each other & marking with a Sharpie mine went in flawlessly.
Not because I’m Mr Wonderful, but because Rick‘s plates fit like a lock & were really intuitive to install. Esp when mocked up to verify my Sharpie marks I used to index place on axle.
I really hope you get the installation, as it’s honestly pretty easy & frankly - intuitive.
It’s of thinking and maybe for install, at most.
Unless you’re converting from plates that you cut material from the shell arm mounts previously, it’s a job that almost needs no instructions as easy as these go in.
I‘d find a local & have them coach you if you still have questions or think Rick hasn’t answered your questions to the full extent to get these in as intended.
Best of luck.
hey man. thanks a lot for that. i've gotten different intel on these so i prefer to sort it out up front.
from what i can tell if i wanted to i could (?) drop the arms in front, cut the brackets, bolt it back up and run the rig and my new bushings over to the land cruiser shop and just ask them to put in new bushings and bolt up and weld the new brackets? i am trying to avoid getting into a multi-day event here because i don't have time for that but i do need to get things tightened up because i need to take care of something out of town.
are you up for eyeballing this take on a step by step?
i can't remember if you did the 2.5 inch plates but if you did do you have any tips on cleanly removing that material at the top? i can get in there and make the cuts cleanly with a cutoff wheel but it seems like something specific for removing the horizontal cut would easily save 30 minutes of screwing around with an abrasive wheel. i've got a makita die grinder i never use and i am thinking i could pick up a small cutoff wheel for it or something?
anyway any tips on this install are really welcome.
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LX450 caster plate install
- oil bolts for day or two prior.
- chock front and rear wheels each side.
- loosen six radius arm bolts. loosen sway bar bolts.
- jack vehicle up under the pumpkin and place two pairs of jack stands each side in front of and behind the control arm brackets.
- place tires or other support under front cross rail member for safety.
- remove two pair front radius arm axle bolts. note that the bolts loosen at the bolt head as the nuts have serrations that “lock” them to the mounts. nuts face inward. bolt heads are on the outside.
- remove radius arm bolt at frame.
- remove both radius arms.
- remove SWAY BAR.
- clean up brackets.
- sand down area of brackets that will be getting welded.
- clamp up caster plates each side of brackets and hit the holes with spray paint to mark new hole location.
- run a perpendicular from the bottom edge of the bracket to each side of the new hole location to mark cuts.
- cut to marks with cutoff wheel.
- find method to remove material at the top of your mark.
- use round file and flat file to dress cut.
- replace radius arm bushings.
- hang radius arm from the rear most mount at the frame and then install radius arm at the front by jacking it up to a point where the rear bushing at the axle is aligned with the new hole location. place plates on each side and bolt through this location and loosely clamp the plates in place.
- remove bolt at frame at the rear of the radius arm.
- align bushing at front of radius arm with newly cut slot and bolt the front of the plates through the front bushing.
- do same for other side.
- push front wheels inward and chock them so they will not move to try to align rear bushing at frame with hole location.
- place floor jack under rear of radius arm in this location and try to align rearmost bushing at the frame.
- place heavy duty come along around the front axle pumpkin and over the transmsission cross member and try to leverage ("ratchet the f*** out of it") to get the pumpkin into an angle that lets you bolt up the rear bushing.
- use pry bar etcetera to get the rear most bolt in.
- torque to value.
I have two variations of plates now and the 2.5” plates don’t require drilling. The 4” still does.Wow.
That was alot to try & keep up with.
I had notched my arm mounts to the axle shell to run Slee plates when they were the only way to camber correct for 4” lift.
I had to weld back the missing material before drilling new holes to install LT’s plates - so I literally got a punchlist of the drillbit size & such, and a few short notes like the short bolt/nut that pinched the plate / filled the empty hole & then you just dropped the 4 longer bolts w/ the new nuts that took into account you just added 1/4”-3/8” width to the axle arm mounts.
-Frankly I forget any need to remove material from the mount, I recall a ~5/8” bit to drill the relocation hole.
Is this more a hesitation thing because you‘re more “tech” than “tools” - I ask as I’m smack in the middle of learning g/m code, Fusion 360, Solidworks - I’m all ’tools’ & bad at tech, so I ask as I think we’re 180* out from each other on natural “fields of expertise/comfort”.
I mean this as nice as I can - get a local to either come help & buy the pizza/ - or take it to a shop.
Your working plan sounded good, if you’re good with getting the plates in / nobody watching over your shoulder.
HTH.
thanks dude.If you have the 2.5” plates all you need is a grinder not a cut off wheel. Drop the arms and mount the plates with the rear bolt in place, then stencil the new location for the front bolts, I used spray paint. Then get after it with the grinder, a normal grind wheel for metal gives you the ability to shape the top half of the front bolt‘s new location. Bolts are round so I just wanted to remove the material I stenciled with paint, no more. The grove from the bottom should be the width of the bolt.
I’m slow as molasses and this my first 80, took my time so I wouldn’t fubar the damn thing and the whole job took 4 hours from pulling out the floor jack to beer (step 6). Best 4 hours invested to date after the new suspension.
Crawl under there and hold the plate up, it’s not that hard to visualize how the plates mount and what they do to the orientation of the axle.
I have two variations of plates now and the 2.5” plates don’t require drilling. The 4” still does.
thanks rick, all.
anyone mind helping the noob a bit more here? better safe than sorry and all.
floor jack goes under the pumpkin and as it lifts it slips around a bit and the weight of the vehicle shifts so i leave it unchocked at the back wheels?
the issue i always have is i think i fill up the tank and it always leans to the DS side like a mofo so i have to get the jacks under it a hair earlier than i would prefer.
so right now i had the FRAME JACKS under it (with some steel plate under those) and the front tires were in fact touching the ground.
then i jacked the axle up a hair under the pumpkin and got the PS axle and wheel jacked up a hair (and the wheel here is off the ground).
then i got the floor jack under the axle on the DS and got it up a hair and off the ground. the wheel on the DS is still touching the ground however.
this is noob territory for me since jacking a rig like this up is a tad different than anything i am used to. also, i am not totally sure what happens when i unbolt the radius arm but i guess if the axle was not jacked it would want to drop straight down?
THANKS for any additional help and of course proper apologies for any extraneous noise.
also i can delete this if it belong on a separate thread. wasn’t sure where to post it actually.
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thanks. am i good to go like this though for dropping the radius arms?No need for jack or jack stands, just unbolt and remove control arms, they are not holding up the vehicle or anything else....
No need for jack or jack stands, just unbolt and remove control arms, they are not holding up the vehicle or anything else....