Land Tank Caster correction plates for 2.5 inch lift. (1 Viewer)

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it’s a complicated assembly for a lot of people. it’s not clear to a lot of people and they would like it to be clearer before cutting.
How many people reside in your head?

Holy **** you are high maintenance.
 
somewhere in here someone was saying that they put a square against the bottom of the flange and aligned it with the two “ends” of original hole.
then drew two /vertical/ lines. this would not be the same distance. so it’s confusing rick. and i’m asking before i cut the flange.

... i’m just trying to make sure i understand it so i have the install instructions correct on the thread that is the install thread.


on the one hand you say to keep it tight and not get sloppy with the cut and on the other i’m still a tad confused about your answer on this geometry question (which seems pretty direct).

I think you aren't doing something right... You don't need to do anything with geometry. In fact, you don't even need to measure anything. Rick did that for you already and provided you with a template. The template is the plate itself. All you need to do is what was called out earlier:

1. bolt the plates (rear bolt only) into place firmly. (The front "pin" of the plate will sit in the front bolt hole)
2. Mark where the front hole of the plate lands on your stock bracket. (fully fill in the hole)
3. Remove the material that you just filled in.
4. Use a jack or muscle the axle to align the front bolt hole of the radius arm with the new hole location in the plate and bolt them together.
5. Weld the place onto the bracket. (you can drive just fine without welding. The weld is only to ensure that nothing moves, long term.

Things you don't need to worry about:

1. Square vs round cut on the stock bracket: The LandTank plate will now bear the loads that were originally handled by the stock bracket. The stock bracket just needs to be cleared to prevent interference. Once that is complete the correctly sized front hole of the bracket does what you need.

2. Geometry: You don't need to worry about vertical displacement vs displacement along the circumference of a circle for the rear-front bolt holes. The land tank plates are carefully designed to correct your caster by taking the proper geometry into account.

3. Distance between bolt holes: Again, the plates already place the location of the new front hole, providing the correct placing. You don't even need to measure anything.

My Opinion:

If you trust his product, just install per the instructions and trust that his calculations are correct. If you don't trust his product and want to double check the engineering behind his solution, you should examine completing the "cut and turn" approach and correct the caster to your own specifications.

My 2 cents.
 
I think you aren't doing something right... You don't need to do anything with geometry. In fact, you don't even need to measure anything. Rick did that for you already and provided you with a template. The template is the plate itself. All you need to do is what was called out earlier:

1. bolt the plates (rear bolt only) into place firmly. (The front "pin" of the plate will sit in the front bolt hole)
2. Mark where the front hole of the plate lands on your stock bracket. (fully fill in the hole)
3. Remove the material that you just filled in.
4. Use a jack or muscle the axle to align the front bolt hole of the radius arm with the new hole location in the plate and bolt them together.
5. Weld the place onto the bracket. (you can drive just fine without welding. The weld is only to ensure that nothing moves, long term.

Things you don't need to worry about:

1. Square vs round cut on the stock bracket: The LandTank plate will now bear the loads that were originally handled by the stock bracket. The stock bracket just needs to be cleared to prevent interference. Once that is complete the correctly sized front hole of the bracket does what you need.

2. Geometry: You don't need to worry about vertical displacement vs displacement along the circumference of a circle for the rear-front bolt holes. The land tank plates are carefully designed to correct your caster by taking the proper geometry into account.

3. Distance between bolt holes: Again, the plates already place the location of the new front hole, providing the correct placing. You don't even need to measure anything.

My Opinion:

If you trust his product, just install per the instructions and trust that his calculations are correct. If you don't trust his product and want to double check the engineering behind his solution, you should examine completing the "cut and turn" approach and correct the caster to your own specifications.

My 2 cents.

hey man. thanks.
personally i would be surprised if anyone on here knew how to install these from reading up on it prior to receiving them. but whatever.
so back to the install. @woodsman 44 suggested hitting the brackets with some spray paint each side with the plates clamped on to mark the bracket which is a good idea.
then i guess you run two 90’s off the bottom of the plate on each side of the bracket?
then my plan was to cut into these with a cutoff wheel.
but at that point you are in there trying to remove a 5/8” roughly horizontal to knock out the material? i mean no reason to finish that thing with a nice rounded top from what i see and what i think you are saying.
but i’m not sure if i am going to plunge a die grinder with a stone bit into it or get out a little dremel(?) or drill bits or what.
or just thinking out loud but maybe i should pick up some kind of small cutoff bit first for the die grinder which would come in handy here?
i’d like to avoid running a grinding wheel up in there to remove all that material.
 
rick. no one is being lazy or trying to take shortcuts. we are asking you for more help with the instructions. this appears to be the place to do it.
it says “4. Grind a slot into the bracket to allow the bolt to pass through.”
it’s a complicated assembly for a lot of people. it’s not clear to a lot of people and they would like it to be clearer before cutting.
if you don’t want to answer questions that’s on you.

I‘m betting I was R’s “guinea pig” - (or easily in the ‘dirty dozen’ to get his plates) - I had to convert from Slee’s pivot plates to LT’s ‘rotate’ plates & had to weld back axle mount material in the process.

I think I got a punchlist of materials & sized drillbits needed, but being a early adopter (long before he had a vendor, just him sending out goods) - and just setting the plates as they should to rotate the axle, making sure the location pegs faced each other & marking with a Sharpie mine went in flawlessly.

Not because I’m Mr Wonderful, but because Rick‘s plates fit like a lock & were really intuitive to install. Esp when mocked up to verify my Sharpie marks I used to index place on axle.

I really hope you get the installation, as it’s honestly pretty easy & frankly - intuitive.

It’s :banana::banana: of thinking and maybe:banana::banana: for install, at most.

Unless you’re converting from plates that you cut material from the shell arm mounts previously, it’s a job that almost needs no instructions as easy as these go in.

I‘d find a local & have them coach you if you still have questions or think Rick hasn’t answered your questions to the full extent to get these in as intended.

Best of luck.
 
I‘m betting I was R’s “guinea pig” - (or easily in the ‘dirty dozen’ to get his plates) - I had to convert from Slee’s pivot plates to LT’s ‘rotate’ plates & had to weld back axle mount material in the process.

I think I got a punchlist of materials & sized drillbits needed, but being a early adopter (long before he had a vendor, just him sending out goods) - and just setting the plates as they should to rotate the axle, making sure the location pegs faced each other & marking with a Sharpie mine went in flawlessly.

Not because I’m Mr Wonderful, but because Rick‘s plates fit like a lock & were really intuitive to install. Esp when mocked up to verify my Sharpie marks I used to index place on axle.

I really hope you get the installation, as it’s honestly pretty easy & frankly - intuitive.

It’s :banana::banana: of thinking and maybe:banana::banana: for install, at most.

Unless you’re converting from plates that you cut material from the shell arm mounts previously, it’s a job that almost needs no instructions as easy as these go in.

I‘d find a local & have them coach you if you still have questions or think Rick hasn’t answered your questions to the full extent to get these in as intended.

Best of luck.

hey man. thanks a lot for that. i've gotten different intel on these so i prefer to sort it out up front.
from what i can tell if i wanted to i could (?) drop the arms in front, cut the brackets, bolt it back up and run the rig and my new bushings over to the land cruiser shop and just ask them to put in new bushings and bolt up and weld the new brackets? i am trying to avoid getting into a multi-day event here because i don't have time for that but i do need to get things tightened up because i need to take care of something out of town.
are you up for eyeballing this take on a step by step?
i can't remember if you did the 2.5 inch plates but if you did do you have any tips on cleanly removing that material at the top? i can get in there and make the cuts cleanly with a cutoff wheel but it seems like something specific for removing the horizontal cut would easily save 30 minutes of screwing around with an abrasive wheel. i've got a makita die grinder i never use and i am thinking i could pick up a small cutoff wheel for it or something?
anyway any tips on this install are really welcome.
-
LX450 caster plate install
  1. oil bolts for day or two prior.
  2. chock front and rear wheels each side.
  3. loosen six radius arm bolts. loosen sway bar bolts.
  4. jack vehicle up under the pumpkin and place two pairs of jack stands each side in front of and behind the control arm brackets.
  5. place tires or other support under front cross rail member for safety.
  6. remove two pair front radius arm axle bolts. note that the bolts loosen at the bolt head as the nuts have serrations that “lock” them to the mounts. nuts face inward. bolt heads are on the outside.
  7. remove radius arm bolt at frame.
  8. remove both radius arms.
  9. remove SWAY BAR.
  10. clean up brackets.
  11. sand down area of brackets that will be getting welded.
  12. clamp up caster plates each side of brackets and hit the holes with spray paint to mark new hole location.
  13. run a perpendicular from the bottom edge of the bracket to each side of the new hole location to mark cuts.
  14. cut to marks with cutoff wheel.
  15. find method to remove material at the top of your mark.
  16. use round file and flat file to dress cut.
  17. replace radius arm bushings.
  18. hang radius arm from the rear most mount at the frame and then install radius arm at the front by jacking it up to a point where the rear bushing at the axle is aligned with the new hole location. place plates on each side and bolt through this location and loosely clamp the plates in place.
  19. remove bolt at frame at the rear of the radius arm.
  20. align bushing at front of radius arm with newly cut slot and bolt the front of the plates through the front bushing.
  21. do same for other side.
  22. push front wheels inward and chock them so they will not move to try to align rear bushing at frame with hole location.
  23. place floor jack under rear of radius arm in this location and try to align rearmost bushing at the frame.
  24. place heavy duty come along around the front axle pumpkin and over the transmsission cross member and try to leverage ("ratchet the **** out of it") to get the pumpkin into an angle that lets you bolt up the rear bushing.
  25. use pry bar etcetera to get the rear most bolt in.
  26. torque to value.
 
hey man. thanks a lot for that. i've gotten different intel on these so i prefer to sort it out up front.
from what i can tell if i wanted to i could (?) drop the arms in front, cut the brackets, bolt it back up and run the rig and my new bushings over to the land cruiser shop and just ask them to put in new bushings and bolt up and weld the new brackets? i am trying to avoid getting into a multi-day event here because i don't have time for that but i do need to get things tightened up because i need to take care of something out of town.
are you up for eyeballing this take on a step by step?
i can't remember if you did the 2.5 inch plates but if you did do you have any tips on cleanly removing that material at the top? i can get in there and make the cuts cleanly with a cutoff wheel but it seems like something specific for removing the horizontal cut would easily save 30 minutes of screwing around with an abrasive wheel. i've got a makita die grinder i never use and i am thinking i could pick up a small cutoff wheel for it or something?
anyway any tips on this install are really welcome.
-
LX450 caster plate install
  1. oil bolts for day or two prior.
  2. chock front and rear wheels each side.
  3. loosen six radius arm bolts. loosen sway bar bolts.
  4. jack vehicle up under the pumpkin and place two pairs of jack stands each side in front of and behind the control arm brackets.
  5. place tires or other support under front cross rail member for safety.
  6. remove two pair front radius arm axle bolts. note that the bolts loosen at the bolt head as the nuts have serrations that “lock” them to the mounts. nuts face inward. bolt heads are on the outside.
  7. remove radius arm bolt at frame.
  8. remove both radius arms.
  9. remove SWAY BAR.
  10. clean up brackets.
  11. sand down area of brackets that will be getting welded.
  12. clamp up caster plates each side of brackets and hit the holes with spray paint to mark new hole location.
  13. run a perpendicular from the bottom edge of the bracket to each side of the new hole location to mark cuts.
  14. cut to marks with cutoff wheel.
  15. find method to remove material at the top of your mark.
  16. use round file and flat file to dress cut.
  17. replace radius arm bushings.
  18. hang radius arm from the rear most mount at the frame and then install radius arm at the front by jacking it up to a point where the rear bushing at the axle is aligned with the new hole location. place plates on each side and bolt through this location and loosely clamp the plates in place.
  19. remove bolt at frame at the rear of the radius arm.
  20. align bushing at front of radius arm with newly cut slot and bolt the front of the plates through the front bushing.
  21. do same for other side.
  22. push front wheels inward and chock them so they will not move to try to align rear bushing at frame with hole location.
  23. place floor jack under rear of radius arm in this location and try to align rearmost bushing at the frame.
  24. place heavy duty come along around the front axle pumpkin and over the transmsission cross member and try to leverage ("ratchet the f*** out of it") to get the pumpkin into an angle that lets you bolt up the rear bushing.
  25. use pry bar etcetera to get the rear most bolt in.
  26. torque to value.

can i use something like a stone bit in a die grinder to take out that material at the top? looks like it would be as quick as anything else i suppose?

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Wow.
That was alot to try & keep up with.

I had notched my arm mounts to the axle shell to run Slee plates when they were the only way to camber correct for 4” lift.

I had to weld back the missing material before drilling new holes to install LT’s plates - so I literally got a punchlist of the drillbit size & such, and a few short notes like the short bolt/nut that pinched the plate / filled the empty hole & then you just dropped the 4 longer bolts w/ the new nuts that took into account you just added 1/4”-3/8” width to the axle arm mounts.

-Frankly I forget any need to remove material from the mount, I recall a ~5/8” bit to drill the relocation hole.

Is this more a hesitation thing because you‘re more “tech” than “tools” - I ask as I’m smack in the middle of learning g/m code, Fusion 360, Solidworks - I’m all ’tools’ & bad at tech, so I ask as I think we’re 180* out from each other on natural “fields of expertise/comfort”.

I mean this as nice as I can - get a local to either come help & buy the pizza/:beer: - or take it to a shop.

Your working plan sounded good, if you’re good with getting the plates in / nobody watching over your shoulder.

HTH.
 
If you have the 2.5” plates all you need is a grinder not a cut off wheel. Drop the arms and mount the plates with the rear bolt in place, then stencil the new location for the front bolts, I used spray paint. Then get after it with the grinder, a normal grind wheel for metal gives you the ability to shape the top half of the front bolt‘s new location. Bolts are round so I just wanted to remove the material I stenciled with paint, no more. The grove from the bottom should be the width of the bolt.

I’m slow as molasses and this my first 80, took my time so I wouldn’t fubar the damn thing and the whole job took 4 hours from pulling out the floor jack to beer (step 6). Best 4 hours invested to date after the new suspension.

Crawl under there and hold the plate up, it’s not that hard to visualize how the plates mount and what they do to the orientation of the axle.
 
Wow.
That was alot to try & keep up with.

I had notched my arm mounts to the axle shell to run Slee plates when they were the only way to camber correct for 4” lift.

I had to weld back the missing material before drilling new holes to install LT’s plates - so I literally got a punchlist of the drillbit size & such, and a few short notes like the short bolt/nut that pinched the plate / filled the empty hole & then you just dropped the 4 longer bolts w/ the new nuts that took into account you just added 1/4”-3/8” width to the axle arm mounts.

-Frankly I forget any need to remove material from the mount, I recall a ~5/8” bit to drill the relocation hole.

Is this more a hesitation thing because you‘re more “tech” than “tools” - I ask as I’m smack in the middle of learning g/m code, Fusion 360, Solidworks - I’m all ’tools’ & bad at tech, so I ask as I think we’re 180* out from each other on natural “fields of expertise/comfort”.

I mean this as nice as I can - get a local to either come help & buy the pizza/:beer: - or take it to a shop.

Your working plan sounded good, if you’re good with getting the plates in / nobody watching over your shoulder.

HTH.
I have two variations of plates now and the 2.5” plates don’t require drilling. The 4” still does.
 
If you have the 2.5” plates all you need is a grinder not a cut off wheel. Drop the arms and mount the plates with the rear bolt in place, then stencil the new location for the front bolts, I used spray paint. Then get after it with the grinder, a normal grind wheel for metal gives you the ability to shape the top half of the front bolt‘s new location. Bolts are round so I just wanted to remove the material I stenciled with paint, no more. The grove from the bottom should be the width of the bolt.

I’m slow as molasses and this my first 80, took my time so I wouldn’t fubar the damn thing and the whole job took 4 hours from pulling out the floor jack to beer (step 6). Best 4 hours invested to date after the new suspension.

Crawl under there and hold the plate up, it’s not that hard to visualize how the plates mount and what they do to the orientation of the axle.
thanks dude.
so you just shoved the abrasive wheel up into it and kept grinding material off i guess? i think i would be tempted to use a cutoff wheel first at least because it would be so clean.
a couple things i am missing (sorry). i need to run the radius arms out to get new bushings put in.
can i drop both radius arms without any support or do i need to support the pumpkin/axle while the radius arms are out?
elsewhere someone said i need to put it on jack stands to get the radius arms out or to have room to maneuver them?
lastly. you didn’t have any difficulty getting the axle rotated? i have heavy duty ratchet straps (like 3” wide” but i don’t have a come along and i really should pick one up anyways.
4 hours estimate is super helpful. i’ve had a report or two that said getting the axle into shape was a massive pain and eventually required a second hand or removing the coils (?) or something which i didn’t quite follow or understand.
 
When I do work like this on the front axle I raise the front end of the truck with a jack under the axle, using 12 ton jack stands I rest the truck on the frame just behind the frame mounts for the front arms and then lower the axle onto some 6 ton stands so as there is some pressure from the axle on those stands.
On assembly you will be able to rotate the axle using a floor jack on the front steering arm on the right side of the axle.
 
I have two variations of plates now and the 2.5” plates don’t require drilling. The 4” still does.

That explains why I was questioning OP grinding work but no talk of punching a clean/fresh ~5/8” hole - or I was loosely thinking OP was wanting to use that die grinder / bit for the job (wouldn’t make any sense).

-But that explains why I couldn’t track for crap what he was saying as well.
 
thanks rick, all.
anyone mind helping the noob a bit more here? better safe than sorry and all.
floor jack goes under the pumpkin and as it lifts it slips around a bit and the weight of the vehicle shifts so i leave it unchocked at the back wheels?
the issue i always have is i think i fill up the tank and it always leans to the DS side like a mofo so i have to get the jacks under it a hair earlier than i would prefer.
so right now i had the FRAME JACKS under it (with some steel plate under those) and the front tires were in fact touching the ground.
then i jacked the axle up a hair under the pumpkin and got the PS axle and wheel jacked up a hair (and the wheel here is off the ground).
then i got the floor jack under the axle on the DS and got it up a hair and off the ground. the wheel on the DS is still touching the ground however.
this is noob territory for me since jacking a rig like this up is a tad different than anything i am used to. also, i am not totally sure what happens when i unbolt the radius arm but i guess if the axle was not jacked it would want to drop straight down?
THANKS for any additional help and of course proper apologies for any extraneous noise.
also i can delete this if it belong on a separate thread. wasn’t sure where to post it actually.

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thanks rick, all.
anyone mind helping the noob a bit more here? better safe than sorry and all.
floor jack goes under the pumpkin and as it lifts it slips around a bit and the weight of the vehicle shifts so i leave it unchocked at the back wheels?
the issue i always have is i think i fill up the tank and it always leans to the DS side like a mofo so i have to get the jacks under it a hair earlier than i would prefer.
so right now i had the FRAME JACKS under it (with some steel plate under those) and the front tires were in fact touching the ground.
then i jacked the axle up a hair under the pumpkin and got the PS axle and wheel jacked up a hair (and the wheel here is off the ground).
then i got the floor jack under the axle on the DS and got it up a hair and off the ground. the wheel on the DS is still touching the ground however.
this is noob territory for me since jacking a rig like this up is a tad different than anything i am used to. also, i am not totally sure what happens when i unbolt the radius arm but i guess if the axle was not jacked it would want to drop straight down?
THANKS for any additional help and of course proper apologies for any extraneous noise.
also i can delete this if it belong on a separate thread. wasn’t sure where to post it actually.

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No need for jack or jack stands, just unbolt and remove control arms, they are not holding up the vehicle or anything else....
 
No need for jack or jack stands, just unbolt and remove control arms, they are not holding up the vehicle or anything else....
thanks. am i good to go like this though for dropping the radius arms?
rick seemed to indicate i could put it on jack stands. one guy i was talking to seemed to say it was a bitch to do it on the ground with one guy.
“On assembly you will be able to rotate the axle using a floor jack on the front steering arm on the right side of the axle.”
 
OK. so jacked it up and got the arms off.

tools:

22mm socket
24mm socket
22mm closed end crescent
24mm closed end crescent
1/2" breaker bar
1/2" ratchet
drift to knock the bolts out
mallet or mini sledge for the drift
variously sized pipe extensions to get leverage on the breaker bar (make sure you have some shorter ones)

the four 22 mm front bolts have the BOLT HEAD on the outside facing in and have the four raised locking areas on the NUTS on the inside. so you want to undo the BOLT HEAD on the outside face because the nuts are captured on the inside.

the two bolts at the back have the 22mm BOLT HEAD on the inside so the bolt is facing OUT and the 24mm NUTS are on the outside. the raised locking areas switch sides and on the back bolts the raised areas are actually on the BOLT HEAD head back here. so you want to undo the NUT on the rear bolts.

the easy way to remember this is that you are removing bolts by the bolt head or the nuts from the /outside/ of the frame.

these take a lot of force to get off and if you have 12 sided sockets you are in business. but if you don't make sure you have different sized breaker bar extenders. the ones here are from an old hammock support thing someone threw out and i kept one leg and chopped one down. what else? well if you find yourself putting too much force on these make sure you are turning in the right direction (!) or you are not on the locked side of the bolt.

i had to run out for a 22mm socket for some dumb reason because i had everything up to 24 except 22. and also i got hung up on the rear bolt DS. i actually "accidentally" got the first rear one off because i automatically continued on the outside of the frame and took the nut off on the first one on the passenger side and then i was like "s*** i was supposed to take those off from the bolt head side i wonder why that came off" and i spent 30 minutes ****ing with that sixth one by trying to take it off from the locked bolt head on the inside of the frame.

also if you don't have 12 sided sockets you can angle that breaker bar outward or inward and get some /angle/ on the handle and slip the extender over it and then lean the handle back in or just work it at an angle.

if your undersides are gnarly do yourself a favor and soak them a couple times a week ahead of time. i wouldn’t want to be under there with rusted nuts trying to figure out my clockwise counterclockwise raised lock head or raised lock nuts where can i get the extender in over here and wondering why it’s not turning basically.
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No need for jack or jack stands, just unbolt and remove control arms, they are not holding up the vehicle or anything else....
So what keeps the axle from moving forward or backward? Seems like incredibly bad advice, but maybe you know something I don't.

Never mind, I see where you went with that. I don't bother reading lc3DP's posts, so I took your comment out of context. My apologies.
 
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you can see the washer under the head of the bolt in some cases and it goes under the nut in others. the other way to think of this is you want to undo on the /washer/ side because the other side is going to have the raised locking area.
-
front has the raised area on the nuts and this is on the inside:
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rear has the raised area on the bolt head and this is on the inside of the frame:
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