Just sat in a $250,000 FJ40. Is it still a Land Cruiser?

[rlong]

There are no $250,000 homes in Colorado, in the Front Range a old un-remodeled depreciated bungalow or ranch is $450,000-$550,000.. the before of a fix n flip. Dad’s 980 sf up and cellar basement just flipped at $720,000 cash.. mostly Home Depot materials plus “marble” counters.

I agree $100,000 ain’t what it used to be!

 

[Wasatch Jay]

I think your view on $100k is skewed. Its just not much money anymore.

A complete wreck of a house in my podunk home town is $250k now. Houses that barely scratched past $100k ten years ago

Sadly, I think this is 100% true. Look at the price of pretty much anything, and it has gone up a lot. ("A lot" is a nice way of saying a s***-ton.)

Many of us bought our FJ40s, and/or parts for them, years ago when prices were SUBSTANTIALLY lower.

But thats meaningless today because those prices simply don't exist. And If someone happened to get a great deal on a vehicle, or part, well, that's good for them, but the price is meaningless if it's not repeatable.

It's not unlike saying you bought Microsoft stock at $50/ share. Yeah, good for you, but today it closed over $500/ share.

 

[sogncab]

There are no $250,000 homes in Colorado, in the Front Range a old un-remodeled depreciated bungalow or ranch is $450,000-$550,000.. the before of a fix n flip. Dad’s 980 sf up and cellar basement just flipped at $720,000 cash.. mostly Home Depot materials plus “marble” counters.

I agree $100,000 ain’t what it used to be!

That's because people want to live there. Nobody wants to live here.

 

[Ditcherman]

The only part of my dash still oem is the ash tray and glove box door, it had a plywood cover when I got it. I guess over 25 years including the $3K purch price I have between $35K & $40K max in my 40. Came with hard doors and a soft top that were on for a week, not stock, not particulary rusty, it was on a hunting ranch and the tub has been drilled seemingly everywhere for random stuff, not bullet holes but full of holes.
My point I guess is you can spend $40k and have a great rig for its purpose and the wife will look at it and say, " Could we get $5K for that thing " it's about what you like, dam the money and let it roll.

Just curious, what do you all say you would price Mike Shull's recently finished rig at ? Highly custom, very nice, would you value it to the level of an Icon ??
FWIW I would roll Mike's type rig over an Icon or FJ Co. anyday.

Your post makes me wonder how many people get their build appraised?
Or their boughten thing appraised?
How much info is out there?

How many people seriously wheel their “high value” rig? I personally think any FJ40 is high value as they are so rare, and have what seems to be a cult following in some ways. But how many 100k plus rigs see real action?
I’d guess a few but it’s the exception, IMO.

Without seeing it but from following his build I can’t value Mikes like an Icon, because a wheeler dude is going to build his own rig with sweat equity, and a dude with a garage full of classic high value cars probably doesn’t want one like Mikes, he’s willing to pay for the name and the “refinement”, perceived or real.
Certainly exceptions to the rule, just IMO once again.
Mikes is worth that to Mike, and me, and you, but he can’t sell it for that because we already have ours and garage queen boy isn’t buying his.

 

[brian]

I remember buying a clean, rust free hard top and doors for $500, along with a plate style tire carrier for $50 and a clean windshield frame for $100 shipped. All of that was in the early 00's (many of those part I still have).

I remember buying a 500 buck complete parts truck just for the doors and floor mat about the same time frame

 

[Ditcherman]

I bought my first, a 74 with ambulance doors, hardtop and doors, front disc running for $600. Now the fenders had been sawzalled off halfway through the aprons, body was cut below the doors, and rear quarters sawed off as well so that was rough. But someone offered me $600 for the roof the next day.
This was 2005 or 6.

 

[70fj40]

I believe we will see FJ40’s value slowly get lower the next 10-15 years. Lots of older owners and enthusiasts aging out. Young guys seem to be deciding on-road manners have as much value as off-road ability. I hope I am wrong. I have about 23K in my 1970 and it isnt as nice as many here. I can still think of about 20K worth of work I think it would need to be what I really want it to be. I’m within 5 years of retirement so maybe I’ll get there. If I’d started 15 years earlier I’d probably have half the $$ in it.

 

[Broski]

At friend's friend housewarming in rather fancy part of town. Drove my 40 over. Someone said "hey, come look at (home owner) Land Cruiser." We walk over and I don't see a Land Cruiser. There's a, hmmm, think that's a Jeep Rubicon or Raptor Bronco...nope, still looking for the FJ40, but all I see are C8 Z06 with garish stripes and carbon wings, several Raptors, new Defenders, 2015 GT40 (yeah, THAT kind of neighborhood), 992 Turbo S.

I ask "where's the Land Cruiser" and someone points to what I thought was the shiny jacked up Bronco Raptor mere feet away. It's an Icon. If it wasn't for the hood emblem and someone telling me I never would've known it was a Toyota. Roll cage front to back, think it had 37s, Tartufo buckets, greenish-black paint and a tiny steering wheel.

He bought it from auction. With fees, enclosed shipping, tax etc someone said between bites of delicious carne asada "it's a quarter million." Shut the front door!! So I did search history and whaddya know, there are plenty of 200K-ish restores from FJ Company and Icon ending in a bidding frenzy to avoid that 2 year wait. This "FJ40" was not that uncommon. Just to me.

That started the housewarming roundtable. Some said why bother, it's not a 40, zero interest. OEM or nothing at all. Others said it's the same as a Singer Porsche. Presumably same demographic, same use case, still a Porsche, just reimagined with a big price and long wait. An Icon is still a Land Cruiser. Most are garage queens, don't off road, not really an investment, but a flex. My friend's opinion was Icon and its ilk aren't far removed from a great home mechanic's passion project of small block Chevy/fuel injection/aluminum tub 40.

Wondering if any forum members own/has owned an Icon. Or wants to snag a FJ Company on an auction site as bucket list.
Wondering if you or someone you know has gone from a $$$$ restomod or even a Chevy/fuel injected/4 discs/modern sound system and nice paint back to "original" mechanical and patina the older you get. A "less is more" kind of thing, back to basics.

As for me I lusted after that GT40. The $250,000 FJ40 didn't do a thing for me. But I can appreciate why someone would want one. I think.

Pictures or it didn't happen !!

 

[peesalot]

Why would Icon owners be 70 years old, steak eating, fat, diabetic, drinkin, smokers ??? Sounds like a self portrait..........

 

[trainbufftony]

Why would Icon owners be 70 years old, steak eating, fat, diabetic, drinkin, smokers ??? Sounds like a self portrait..........

Thats the type of people who have 250k to spend on something strictly for nostalgia.

All im saying is that when they say they're built to last a lifetime, they're well aware that its likely going to be <10 years.

Meanwhile my 1972 fj55 has rolled over how many times and the cylinder head hasn't been off yet. 53 years strong, no lifetime guarantee besides the name on the grill.

 

[SNLC]

It’s not hard to hit 2,000 hours in a full on nut & bolt build.

1,000-1,500 hours would be pretty normal for a restoration type build. You can easily have 300+hrs in just paint.

Now most the builds we do are not 40’s but they are Land Cruisers. We can have 300+hrs just wiring a Cruiser from scratch.

Good employees also cost money. The days of paying people under $20/hr are long gone. Anyone with skills is getting $25-50+\hr. I have an 18yr working for me making nearly $20/hr, my top man makes over $100k a year.

What we have been building are “one off” Cruisers which are custom restomods. I promote the business with these builds. The amount of msgs I get from people who want it but don’t know what it costs, well it’s a lot of people. Most have no idea the amount of hours it takes.

You also have markup on materials and parts. Every shop out there charges up everything anywhere from 10-50%. Most shop also will not accept or allow you to supply the parts.

The first time I saw an ICON I thought it was kind of ugly. Proportions wrong, too small tires for the lift and wheel base for example. Black soft top looked lame to me too. They are cookie cutter underneath as somebody also said. Thing is Jonathan put millions of dollars into the R&D to make them cookie cutter for production purposes.

You can get it done cheaper for sure, DIY is the answer. When a shop is telling you they can do it for less than any other shop there is a reason. We have had v8 swapped Cruisers (not 40’s) in the shop where the owner spent nearly $50k on the swap. Dozens of things half assed or done wrong, even the air bag circuit cut and disabled, they pulled the light from the cluster and never told him they disabled his air bags!!! It cost him $15k for us to fix it right. We have had others in the shop too, a $20k paint job and body resto for example that in under four years has rust holes all over in it. Consider this Cruiserheads when hiring a shop!

Yes you can buy 2nd $200+k (build cost) Cruiser for under $100k. ICON for example offers them from time to time. Owners of these kind of Cruisers take a big loss when they sell.

I used to work for almost exclusively 1%’ers. I have seen them (and worked on the projects) spend 5million on landscaping and a million for the sprinkler system. And that’s just the outside the house stuff!! When you have that kind of money $250k for a Cruiser isn’t that big of a deal.

That’s my 2 cents as a Land Cruiser shop.

Cheers

 

[msapers]

There is another difference too: Those who didn't have the formative experience of owning/driving 40's before they became collector vehicles. If I just liked the classic look of an FJ40 and had the coin, I might opt for a fully modern turn key choice like ICON over a rusty original too. Same if I had no desire to get my hands dirty. But I, (like me and many of you), have owned and driven stock or lightly modified ones for years and have identified areas that need improvement for our particular situation/use. I use the formula of Actual use+ available options= component choice. For instance, here's what's guiding the choices that I've made in my build:

1. Drivetrain - What I need it to do: This rig will be my daily driver and my only 4 wheeled vehicle. Plus I will be making a 2,400 mile round trip between Los Angeles, CA and Spokane, WA at least 4 times a year towing a trailer with 2 motorcycles one or both ways. So 9,600 miles of towing at highway speeds every year plus daily driving and light'/moderate wheeling. During that, I need the rig to be able to comfortably maintain 55mph for hours on end, even over grades without being at maximum stress all the time. After having owned and daily driven F, 2F and V8 40's the answer for me is V8. (Actually the answer is a completely different vehicle altogether but I want to do it in my 40.)

2. MPG - I don't care. If it gets anywhere in the double digits, I'll be happy.

3. Air Conditioning - The older I get, the less I can tolerate heat. AC is a must have.

4. Power Steering - One of my shoulders is completely dicked up and PS makes that A lot easier to deal with. My current daily driver is a 1964 F250 4X4 with manual steering and it's to the point where it actually hurts to drive it. PS is a must have.

5. Shiny paint - Might happen eventually but I don't need it. Flat rattle can will suffice for now.

6. Lockers - We'll see. Once we move to Spokane and I get a feel for the terrain, I'll add them if need be.

7. Seats - Procar Pro 90's. They're comfortable and look right.

8. Sound Deadening/Heat Mitigation - For the amount of time I'll be spending behind the wheel, this matters to me. I'll shoot the whole interior including the inside of the firewall and the inside of the hard top side panels/roof cap with 2 coats of Lizard Skin heat barrier, 2 coats of Lizard skin Sound Deadener and 2 coats of bedliner. After that, it is what it is.

My point is that I'm building the Land Cruiser that I've always wanted based on the 30 years that I've spent driving them and the wish list that I've developed over that time. Other people may evaluate their needs and choose a different path and that's fine. Even if that path is a six figure build. I don't want a fully modern ICON or a perfect stock restoration but it doesn't mean that I won't drool over both. I just like Land Cruisers and (for the most part) the people that own them. I'd hate to see what happened to the hot rod world where they got mean and exclusive over who's car was more "real" happen to our community.

 

[White Stripe]

Thats the type of people who have 250k to spend on something strictly for nostalgia.

All im saying is that when they say they're built to last a lifetime, they're well aware that its likely going to be <10 years.

Meanwhile my 1972 fj55 has rolled over how many times and the cylinder head hasn't been off yet. 53 years strong, no lifetime guarantee besides the name on the grill.

They use stock LS engines. Should last a couple hundred thousand miles and easy to get parts for. Are they reliable as a 2f? I dont know. The aqualu body should last longer than steel. Dana axles are easy to get parts for. I did see a icon that had spent years as a beach truck. It had a fair amount of surface rust on the chassis. I dont know how well a stock fj55 would have done used as such.

 

[aztoyman]

Going back to the original question, It's a Land Cruiser "BASED" custom modified vehicle.

 

[Ditcherman]

8. Sound Deadening/Heat Mitigation - For the amount of time I'll be spending behind the wheel, this matters to me. I'll shoot the whole interior including the inside of the firewall and the inside of the hard top side panels/roof cap with 2 coats of Lizard Skin heat barrier, 2 coats of Lizard skin Sound Deadener and 2 coats of bedliner. After that, it is what it is.

My point is that I'm building the Land Cruiser that I've always wanted based on the 30 years that I've spent driving them and the wish list that I've developed over that time. Other people may evaluate their needs and choose a different path and that's fine. Even if that path is a six figure build. I don't want a fully modern ICON or a perfect stock restoration but it doesn't mean that I won't drool over both. I just like Land Cruisers and (for the most part) the people that own them. I'd hate to see what happened to the hot rod world where they got mean and exclusive over who's car was more "real" happen to our community.

Great post.
Just in to mention I did the 2 heat and sound on the engine side of the firewall and the bottom of the tub and then Raptor liner on the inside, tinted with material from my paint guy, and am happy so far with it. I have no idea if there's a wrong or right way.

 

[Living in the Past]

There is another difference too: Those who didn't have the formative experience of owning/driving 40's before they became collector vehicles. If I just liked the classic look of an FJ40 and had the coin, I might opt for a fully modern turn key choice like ICON over a rusty original too. Same if I had no desire to get my hands dirty. But I, (like me and many of you), have owned and driven stock or lightly modified ones for years and have identified areas that need improvement for our particular situation/use. I use the formula of Actual use+ available options= component choice. For instance, here's what's guiding the choices that I've made in my build:

1. Drivetrain - What I need it to do: This rig will be my daily driver and my only 4 wheeled vehicle. Plus I will be making a 2,400 mile round trip between Los Angeles, CA and Spokane, WA at least 4 times a year towing a trailer with 2 motorcycles one or both ways. So 9,600 miles of towing at highway speeds every year plus daily driving and light'/moderate wheeling. During that, I need the rig to be able to comfortably maintain 55mph for hours on end, even over grades without being at maximum stress all the time. After having owned and daily driven F, 2F and V8 40's the answer for me is V8. (Actually the answer is a completely different vehicle altogether but I want to do it in my 40.)

2. MPG - I don't care. If it gets anywhere in the double digits, I'll be happy.

3. Air Conditioning - The older I get, the less I can tolerate heat. AC is a must have.

4. Power Steering - One of my shoulders is completely dicked up and PS makes that A lot easier to deal with. My current daily driver is a 1964 F250 4X4 with manual steering and it's to the point where it actually hurts to drive it. PS is a must have.

5. Shiny paint - Might happen eventually but I don't need it. Flat rattle can will suffice for now.

6. Lockers - We'll see. Once we move to Spokane and I get a feel for the terrain, I'll add them if need be.

7. Seats - Procar Pro 90's. They're comfortable and look right.

8. Sound Deadening/Heat Mitigation - For the amount of time I'll be spending behind the wheel, this matters to me. I'll shoot the whole interior including the inside of the firewall and the inside of the hard top side panels/roof cap with 2 coats of Lizard Skin heat barrier, 2 coats of Lizard skin Sound Deadener and 2 coats of bedliner. After that, it is what it is.

My point is that I'm building the Land Cruiser that I've always wanted based on the 30 years that I've spent driving them and the wish list that I've developed over that time. Other people may evaluate their needs and choose a different path and that's fine. Even if that path is a six figure build. I don't want a fully modern ICON or a perfect stock restoration but it doesn't mean that I won't drool over both. I just like Land Cruisers and (for the most part) the people that own them. I'd hate to see what happened to the hot rod world where they got mean and exclusive over who's car was more "real" happen to our community.

Not sure why you would want anything short wheel base for taking long strips on a regular bases. Especially towing. Easier backing up with a short. Wheel base but for comfort driving and riding longer wheel base gives you a nicer ride. For that kind of money would have longer wheel and factory produced with plenty of dealer support.

 

[TreadingLight]

Grundy said "no off pavement".

That's ludicrous. There are all kinds of public roads in the US that aren't paved. A gravel road and you're not covered?

 

[msapers]

Not sure why you would want anything short wheel base for taking long strips on a regular bases. Especially towing. Easier backing up with a short. Wheel base but for comfort driving and riding longer wheel base gives you a nicer ride. For that kind of money would have longer wheel and factory produced with plenty of dealer support.

You're absolutely right, there are many vehicles far more suited to what I'm doing. However, they don't bring me joy. My enjoyment is greatly affected by the vehicle I'm driving. I like doing it in my Land Cruiser.

 

[knuckle47]

I see it now at my age as ‘the time / value of money’’. 51 years ago at 21 years old I fell in love with my FJ40 and wanted to rekindle that affair. After working for almost 6 decades I was lucky enough to have a little money aside for my fantasies.

I also never wanted a $45,000.00 Land Cruiser but with the latest set of mods just completed, that’s a memory. Where it goes from here is either my kids or some estate auction…sad but true. In the mean time, it helps as much as any pharmaceutical some days

 

[DirtDauberGarage]

Absolutely! Like I said...

If it makes you happy, drive it!!

My mind and my heart love driving my 40 all day, it's my knees and back that don't love it. I'm 6'2" and 225 lbs, and these things weren't built for big guys...

But yeah, I am happiest when I am driving my 40!!

Actually, the real truth is I am happiest sitting in a camping chair, next to my FJ40, somewhere in North GA, next to a fire, next to a stream, grilling some steaks, after just arriving there in my FJ40 and getting ready to do nothing for two days