Builds Electric TLC FJ-40 Build (1 Viewer)

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A local daily family driving FJ62 came for a few day visit in the shop. :ban: We had ideas of what to do as we work on a 2.0 FJ EV System but no idea how awesome it actually fit. 50kWhr of Tesla S energy split between front and rear. So we lose the gas tank and spare under mount but that’s it. Super clean fit. Everyone is pretty stoked including an owner with a supersize fuel bill. What do you think?? Separate thread when we start in the 60 Forum?

 
Thought this worth sharing. Kind of mind bending. A Ford Coyote motor 3D fused with a working draft 3D EGT e-Crate 2.0. Approaching this version to include 25kWhr of energy into the “block” with motors etc. Hmmmm more mind bending. Any stop watching this:) Had to share my pain :flamingo: FYI this is very much a“sizing” & fitment exercise.

 
A local daily family driving FJ62 came for a few day visit in the shop. :ban: We had ideas of what to do as we work on a 2.0 FJ EV System but no idea how awesome it actually fit. 50kWhr of Tesla S energy split between front and rear. So we lose the gas tank and spare under mount but that’s it. Super clean fit. Everyone is pretty stoked including an owner with a supersize fuel bill. What do you think?? Separate thread when we start in the 60 Forum?



Start a 60 series thread for sure.
 
What do you think?? Separate thread when we start in the 60 Forum?

Outstanding, post the link to 60 thread here once you get it started.
 
So these air cooled motors only have 10-30 seconds of peak power after which the dual AC-50s vented and fan cooled will produce like 90ish HP. That's well shy of the original engine and the amount of power one will have to live with climbing grades and the likes. As it is, once we start driving the motors will be warm which will eat into the 10-30 seconds of peak power thus reducing it.

Can you post up any details as far as start on grade, maximum sustained speed at gross vehicle weight on grade, and 0-60 at peak and continuous torque at empty and gross vehicle weight?

I think these values would go a long way to giving us the real world performance we can expect.

Frank
 
All of the IG pictures are showing up as errors for me...
 
Soooo I got bored and decided to run some of these specs through my performance simulator. I tend to get a bit... well... skeptical when technical question are met with instagram posts.

So what this has going for it is that it retains the transmission. However, performance in many areas will fall well short of the 2F powertain due the very low continuous performance of air cooled motors. Also, induction motors have worse efficiency at lower RPMs than do permanent magnet motors meaning you want to keep the RPM's up to maximize efficiency. Here, however, there is a potential problem. Note the torque line and where it starts to taper off. That is a region we call flux or field weakening and is also the region of peak operating efficiency. To reach that you have to rev the transmission input shaft 6000 RPM and beyond. That is higher than that gearbox was likely designed to rev. If it starts throwing oil off of the gear teeth rapid wear will result. I am not saying you cannot rev it that high, just that there is a real risk of rapid gear and/or bearing wear. Assuming you try to keep the transmission under say 5k means you never reach the motor's region of peak efficiency - or peak power. Note that I did not account for the added windage losses from revving that high.

1572065617842.png


I used the following constants in my simulation

Crr
0.006​
Cd
0.50​
A
3.3​
Mi
1.04​
lb
4500​
kg (mass)
2041.2​
N
20017​
mgCrr0
120​
Crr1Ignored
mg =
20017​
ρ=
1.2​

I used the 3 speed trans ratios of 2.75, 1.69, and 1:1.

Rear axle 4.11
I assumed 33" tires though the .006 Crr is likely worse in real life but I gave it the benefit of doubt.

Note the graph below.... The peak power numbers look great but air cooled motors heat quickly, as in seconds, and have low continuous power compared to liquid cooled motors. Thus any continuous load operation like high way cruise and grade climbing needs to be assessed at continuous power, not peak. Based on that, the FJ40 will have a high way cruise speed of only 70 MPH as you will heat the motor just getting onto the freeway. While startability at peak is great, continuous is only 12% which is awful for an on road passenger vehicle. Consider pulling over on a 6% grade, attempting to get back on the road climbing the road crown, and having the asphalt raised creating a ridge off of the shoulder can create an instantaneous grade of 20%. You'd have to wait until the motors cooled to climb over that ridge.

1572065893636.png


Now looking at consumption, I could not find an efficiency map for these motors so I fudged one from other induction motors. There are a number of drive cycles one can use, I used the CARB HDDT 65. It is typically a heavy duty cycle but it does mimic SoCal driving rather well and the 40 should easily meet the trace which the simulator suggests it does. Here I get .55 kWh/mi. To put that into a range number, if you have 47kWh and say allow 90% of that to be used, you then have 42.3 kWh of usable energy. Divide that by .55 and you have 77 miles of range. That's not very much and definitely not enough to go wheeling/camping etc... with a rig like that.

Finally, the numbers we all love, 0-60 times. Peak power I am getting around 15 seconds accounting for time to shift gears which could be improved if you are willing to torture the gearbox and rev >6k RPM. However, at continuous power you will be pushing 40 seconds, and in 4-0 seconds to get to 60 MPH. Realize that you will warm the motors just getting to the freeway. If you are climbing an uphill on ramp, you will probably miss that 2F...

My recommendation to the OP would be to consider a lower revving higher torque PMAC machine instead of the induction machine. Also, consider going up in voltage if you can. That will help performance and efficiency because let's be honest, the AC50 and that line of motors is really forklift/golf cart grade hardware. Think about sizing the motor for continuous power, which will require more motor but will then deliver much better and more consistent performance - and yes it will cost more but I have to believe the 2F has to set the performance floor. Consider that all, and I mean every single EV on the market uses liquid cooled motors and higher DC voltage for these reasons.

Please let me know if I can be of further help.


Frank
 
One could buy a s*** ton of gas for what these conversions cost🙄
 
That is true. As someone who is in the EV business I can attest to the costs especially in the one-off prototype arena. Typically it takes those who are wanting and willing enough to buy those first few at a premium to kick things off and get them going.

Frank
 
:popcorn:
 
Not at a reasonable price point yet.
 
What would a price point be?

Frank
 
Well I believe they charge $60K for a conversion. And it appears performance is less than expected. I give these guys giant kudos for what they have done, just seems like electric is a ways off for this type of application
 

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