Another 1FZFE with Ticking Sound! 96 LX450 with 181,000 Miles (Video included) (2 Viewers)

[OkieOverland]

Using this thread to introduce myself! I finally joined the club and got an 80 series. This is my first LX / Landcruiser. I have been wanting one for quite some time. I knew going into it that it had some motor issues, but it still seemed like a good deal. It has 181,000 miles, 2 owners, and is pretty clean overall. Bone stock.

I grew up working on cars, but it has been quite a few years since I got my hands dirty with one. My first job is going to be to figure out what is going on with the motor. Then I can start tackling some of the upgrades that I'd like to do.

I was hoping to draw from the collective on the 80 series tech forum. I have watched the Youtube series where they determine that the rod bearing was causing the issue. I have also read quite a few threads about other people with similar issues. I have a video posted below with a few different angles of the sound. Any ideas before I start tearing into this thing? I notice it most between 1800-2500 RPMs, but it has started making the sound at idle now too. Not all the time, just sometimes (which is frustrating!)

 

[COYS]

Yo quit running it for so long man.

I’ll wager that’s a nicked power steering pump vane gear which may have also messed up the oil pump gear and crank gear depending on how long it’s been running like this.

Try removing the power steering pump and inspect the gear for even the slightest of nicks. Replace.

Welcome to the 80 $how.

 

[beatle_bayly]

Check for loose sparkplugs, exhaust manifold leaks/cracks, check valve clearances.

 

[jpoole]

I'd do my best to start with the easy/cheap options and go from there. I'd consider starting with the following steps, in something like this order, re-assessing noise with each step and hopefully figuring it out before/by the end of the list:

1. change the oil and install a Toyota / OE filter, I run Shell Rotella 15w40
   1. There are reports of some oil filters causing oil pressure issues and oil starvation, if you don't know what's on it or the history best to avoid any risk here before you go further I think. If shifting to a heavier weight oil changes the noise a lot that could be informative as to the type/source of the noise.
   2. Send a sample of the old oil to Blackstone for analysis
2. check for exhaust leaks (as mentioned above)
3. pull the belts off of the Alternator and AC and then run it, listening for any noise change
   1. Idler bearings, etc. could possibly be at play though it doesn't really sound like it in this case.
   2. with the accessories stopped it may be easier to listen for/find the noise, I'd consider doing step 3 below while the belts are still off.
4. pull the power steering pump and run without it
   1. Have read numerous reports of damaged pump gears causing a noise like this. Do you know if the pumps been changed? Can likely just loosen the pump enough to slide it back and disengage the gear without full removal for this test.
5. pull the valve cover and check clearances
   1. Videos are hard for this kind of diagnosis but it sounds a bit like a loose valve to me. Unless it's just been done it never hurts to change the valve cover gasket and spark plug tube seals in my opinion. This is also a good time for new spark plugs and wires if they are needed. If you have one or more valves with excess clearance you'll need to consider why as 1FZ engines typically go really far without needing valve adjustments. I'm always up for just re-adjusting (shimming in this case) and rolling on but would be looking for any additional/related issues if you had enough clearance for a rattle and trying to piece together the whole story.
6. check the timing chain tensioner, chain slippers, etc. as possible while the valve cover is off
7. hope that I'm missing other ideas because the next steps that I can think of involve going in deeper...

 

[OkieOverland]

@COYS @beatle_bayly Thank you for the ideas. I'll update this thread as I run through the troubleshooting. The seller stated it didn't start making this sound until a very short time ago.

@jpoole In regards to your Number 7 - I factored in a full motor rebuild/replacement as a worst case scenario when I bought it. Hope it doesn't come to that though!

 

[SaturnAscends]

Might as well order a test kit from Blackstone labs also. When you change the oil you might as well grab a sample and send it off for analysis: that might shed some light on whether it's rod knock or not.

Otherwise start with the cheapest/simplest possibilities as advised above.

 

[vegas]

Might as well order a test kit from Blackstone labs also. When you change the oil you might as well grab a sample and send it off for analysis: that might shed some light on whether it's rod knock or not.

Otherwise start with the cheapest/simplest possibilities as advised above.

Can you explain this? How does testing the oil tell you if it is rock knock?

 

[BILT4ME]

Can you explain this? How does testing the oil tell you if it is rock knock?

Having the oil tested will check for the various ingredients in the oil.

There are certain metals that rod and main bearings are made of and if they are detected at high enough levels, they can tell you that you have bearings failing, or an aluminum piston scraping the walls, or a failing air filter due to high silicon content.

You will need to have some idea of how many miles and what type, brand of oil is in the engine.

Blackstone Labs is great and I send every other oil change sample to them ($35 each time) to monitor my engine's health so I can catch something before a catastrophic failure. In my case, they caught an air filter with a pinhole in it. I swapped it out and my levels came back down as expected.

There is a thread here called "Post your Blackstone Report" that may be worth perusing so you can see what to expect.

 

[baldilocks]

Run it until it blows. Trouble shooting is time consuming and nickel and dimes you. Once it blows you’ll know what needed to be done without all the inconvenience.

 

[OkieOverland]

Spent a few hours running through the checklist this evening.

• The oil was changed very recently and they used a Toyota OE filter. It still looks fresh. I decided not to change it tonight, but I will change it soon. I ordered the Blackstone kit too.
• Didn't find any exhaust leaks. That doesn't mean they're not there, but I feel pretty confident it's not an exhaust leak.
• I pulled all the spark plugs and inspected them. They were definitely dirty. I don't think they are dirty enough to cause issues. I went ahead and ordered 6 new ones anyway. Cleaned these up and reinstalled them.
  • Some of the plug wires were loose. There's also some oil on top of cylinder 3, so I'm wondering what is causing that. See pics below.
  • 
    
    
• Pulled the belts and ran it without them. It still makes the same sound
  • The idler pulley, water pump, and alternator are all almost brand new. Changed within the last 2,000 miles.
• Last thing I did tonight was pull the hose for the power steering pump so it can drain. I'll pull the pump tomorrow. There's definitely evidence that the pump is leaking.
  • 
• If it's not the power steering pump then I'm going to pull the valve cover and inspect the valves. I'll probably do that either way so that I can install a new gasket.

 

[NKP Garage]

Welcome to the club! Hard to tell from the video. Any changes in sound after it is warmed up? Any idea what region of the engine bay the sound is coming from?

 

[COYS]

It’s the pump gear dude. It’s a very distinct noise.

 

[MickeyB]

@COYS @beatle_bayly Thank you for the ideas. I'll update this thread as I run through the troubleshooting. The seller stated it didn't start making this sound until a very short time ago.

@jpoole In regards to your Number 7 - I factored in a full motor rebuild/replacement as a worst case scenario when I bought it. Hope it doesn't come to that though!

@COYS @beatle_bayly Thank you for the ideas. I'll update this thread as I run through the troubleshooting. The seller stated it didn't start making this sound until It’s the pump gear dude. It’s a very distinct noise.

i would have just pulled the steering pump and gone from there. All that other stuff is not really necessary until you rule out the gear on the pump.

 

[TheProspector]

Welcome and congrats on the new ride! I’m in Tulsa and grew up in BA if you ever need help. There are a few of us around around here that are local to you.

 

[OkieOverland]

@COYS @MickeyB Live and learn. I'll be pulling it next.

 

[COYS]

@COYS @MickeyB Live and learn. I'll be pulling it next.

It’s limited to the steering pump vane gear, that the oil pump and crank gear have been spared because that’s a head off job and by that decision point you’re in deep.

 

[jpoole]

@OkieOverland Good work being systematic on this, in my opinion. From where we are sitting we don't have enough information to know that it's just x, y or z and since the 80 is new to you there may not be enough info to jump to those conclusions on your end either. Regardless, it's a good exercise to work through some of these areas like you've been doing as a way to get to know the state of things with your new rig.

Looking at the picture of the power steering pump it appears to have been in place for a fairly long time. You say that the previous owner reported that this noise started recently and you don't mention replacement of the PS pump recently. In all cases that I'm aware of the power steering pump gear noise issues have only been the result of mishandling of the gear and damage while the pump was unmounted. I'm hopeful that you'll be able to fix this without a deeper rebuild but given what we know think you have to just keep working the process like you are doing. The power steering pump is probably best case scenario at this point so I'll keep my fingers crossed also, like @COYS

It's good that they used a Toyota filter and I think that almost eliminates the filter as the cause of this but it's still an outside/minimal possibility that there's a low oil pressure issue so I'd keep that on your radar as you proceed. I say that mostly because it's a universal that as oil pressure drops engines tend to get louder. This can be via hotter/thinner oil, blockage, pressure management issues, etc. and may just be showing that tolerances are too loose and components worn out but it's a useful concept to keep in mind regardless and in some cases fixing the oil pressures can be all that's needed to quieten things down again. I see no reason to conclude that you have oil pressure issues but it's something I'd keep on the table until you can fully eliminate it as the direct cause of this noise. Unfortunately you may have to setup a manual gauge to really nail down where your engine's oil pressure really is, etc. so I'd still check the other easier or more likely sources like PS pump and valve clearances first.

Thanks for keeping us updated.

 

[OkieOverland]

A couple small nicks in the PS pump gear. I’ll be ordering a new one. It definitely makes me a little more nervous about having damage further up in the gears. I haven't tried to run it without the pump yet to listen for the sound.

 

[SNLC]

I recommend to anybody who buys a new to them Cruiser to do a compression and leak down test. That is if you want to have an idea on general engine health.

This won’t tell you condition of BEB or conrod bearings but it will give you an idea how healthy the engine is.

1FZFE do chew up BEB and conrod bearings but it is not nearly as common as with the diesels. With good oil changes they can easily go 200-300,000 miles.

Building a 1FZFE right now that had 175,000 on tear down. #4 BEB was the worst, a few others showed a little wear. This 1FZFE only needed a light hone, new standard bearings and new standard rings. This is rebuild #1, these engines are designed for three rebuilds.

Cheers

 

[OkieOverland]

It is making the same sound at the same RPMs with the power steering pump removed (and a catch can underneath!). This is leading me down @COYS train of though in believing that the shards from the gear worked its way deeper, and there are other damaged gears too. Here's where I'm at a crossroads.

Do I run a compression and leakdown test at this point to check the top end?

Do I go ahead and check valve clearances?

Do I just bite the bullet and plan for a full rebuild? If it is the oil pump or crank gear, and I'm going to have to pull the head anyway, might as well take care of everything while I'm there, right?

I knew when I bought it that a rebuild was a possibility. It has 181,000 miles, so getting a rebuild out of the way now might be in my best interest. I sure would like to get 10-20,000 more miles out of it if I could though.