- Thread starter
- #281
I’ll have to measure the caster tomorrow, the way it sits now, the driveshaft binds, so I need to changes something.
Builds Adventure Cruiser "Rosey" - How Many More Times...
- Thread starter BMValentine
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Honestly, since you've got a welder now I'd cut off your front spring perches and do it over. If you do it over now you won't have to worry or wonder about doing it over later. If you are a surgeon at cutting those off you can reuse them otherwise pick up a new set of perches.
What front drive shaft are you using? Single joints or one with a DC joint on one side? This will determine what pinion angle you go with. You set pinion angle first, tack the spring perches, double check fitment, look for interference with stuff. After pinion angle is set that's when you measure for caster and determine how far you need to adjust for your cut n' turn. Measurement is best done with the weigh of the rig on the axle.
What front drive shaft are you using? Single joints or one with a DC joint on one side? This will determine what pinion angle you go with. You set pinion angle first, tack the spring perches, double check fitment, look for interference with stuff. After pinion angle is set that's when you measure for caster and determine how far you need to adjust for your cut n' turn. Measurement is best done with the weigh of the rig on the axle.
- Thread starter
- #283
I was thinking of running the stock driveshaft, just having it lengthened, but as I've been researching I may be swayed to the DC joint on one side. What is your recommendation? I think for the time being I am going to run the shim and deal with it after my wife and I go through a move.
Because I like wheeling in the rocks I wanted a DC joint to be able to point the pinion up and gain a little more clearance at the pinion flange. Either driveshaft style is fine as long as it's set up right (in general single joint shafts have pinion and tcase flanges parallel at ride height, DC joint shaft has pinion flange pointed at tcase flange) but with a SR up front you'll probably need to go with a longer slip. It would be a good idea to flex out the front end and take measurements on the closest the flanges are and the furthest away the flanges are. That will tell you if your slip has enough travel and determines driveshaft length.
Get us a degree measurement for your caster at ride height when you can so we can see what you are dealing with.
Get us a degree measurement for your caster at ride height when you can so we can see what you are dealing with.
- Thread starter
- #285
Just measured my caster, it is sitting at -11°. I don’t know much about caster to know if that is bad or not though.
- Thread starter
- #287
Thanks for the pics, those help. If you are confident you got the angle finder flat on the steering arm and it's 14 degrees you're about 10 degrees too much. About 3-4 degrees positive is a good number to aim for with a lift and bigger tires. With this you'd be looking for a 10 degree shim plate to bring you back down, but then your pinion angle will probably be pointed down too far.
Ok, next question, what are the angles on your pinion flange and on your tcase flange with this set up? The reason I ask is just off the picture they look like they might be pretty close to parallel now. That would mean you'd use a standard one joint per end driveshaft and then you could do the cut n' turn now to fix your caster and be done.
Wait, is the cruiser sitting flat? Is the driveway level?
Ok, next question, what are the angles on your pinion flange and on your tcase flange with this set up? The reason I ask is just off the picture they look like they might be pretty close to parallel now. That would mean you'd use a standard one joint per end driveshaft and then you could do the cut n' turn now to fix your caster and be done.
Wait, is the cruiser sitting flat? Is the driveway level?
- Thread starter
- #289
Here is how I sit.
The transfer case picture:
And the Pinion angle on the axle:
The transfer case picture:
And the Pinion angle on the axle:
I saw you said your front drive shaft is binding now. Where is it binding? On the yokes of the ujoints? In the slip joint?
The flange angles aren't perfect but they are close to consider running. I suppose you could get some small degree plates to dial in your pinion angle and then do a cut n' turn to adjust caster after that. That would save you from having to cut off the spring perches.
The flange angles aren't perfect but they are close to consider running. I suppose you could get some small degree plates to dial in your pinion angle and then do a cut n' turn to adjust caster after that. That would save you from having to cut off the spring perches.
- Thread starter
- #291
I think the degree shin will be the best bet to fix the driveshaft and pinion angle. So for caster, what is the downside of running too much positive caster, why does it need to be less?
Too much positive caster will make the steering wheel really heavy. Too much caster in either direction will also jack the wheel up and down as one turns from full left to full right. Steering may not handle as expected and tire wear might be odd.
Looks like you'll want 3 degree shims to get the flanges parallel which would point the pinion angle up from where it sits now. Math says that would reduce the caster to 11 degrees. At that point you can cut n' turn to reduce caster down to the 3-4 degrees positive for optimum all round handling.
Where does your driveshaft bind?
Looks like you'll want 3 degree shims to get the flanges parallel which would point the pinion angle up from where it sits now. Math says that would reduce the caster to 11 degrees. At that point you can cut n' turn to reduce caster down to the 3-4 degrees positive for optimum all round handling.
Where does your driveshaft bind?
- Thread starter
- #293
That’s what my math pointed to as well after we got to discussing. The driveshaft was out of phase so it may not actually bind. I didn’t notice until I was sitting down thinking about all this and drawing it out. It must have slipped apart during tear down and not gone back together in the proper phase.
- Thread starter
- #295
Yep, I came to that same conclusion, which is why I was so perplexed last night, was tired after a whole day of working and wasn’t thinking straight.
Any tips or tricks on the cut and turn? That has me a bit nervous.
Hojack
♠️Project Snowball❄️
Took a flap disc to the factory weld and smoothed it out. I had a large pipe cutter which worked great however the blade broke on the last pass. Used an angle grinding cutoff disc on the other side. Just be careful not to go too deep. Punch the metal on both sides of cut so you know how it was setup before you turn. Mike knows his stuff.
- Thread starter
- #297
That’s a good idea on the punching both sides bit.
- Thread starter
- #298
Will it be obvious as to how deep I need to grind? What are some cues?
I found it easiest to work on the actual cutting of the axle tubes on a work bench or in a big vice. Because I do just about all my cutting with an angle grinder I found it just as easy to use the angle grinder to cut about a 1/4"+ deep channel into the tube about a 1/2" from the end where the knuckle ball gets welded to it.
Pic's of Jason's
Builds - 4BT/ NV4500/ SOA - AKA- Project Snowball
What I'd do is pull the axle back off and strip it back down. Cut the tubes like you see in the picture. With your measurements today you know you need to rotate the knuckle back to: 3-4 degrees - 11 degrees = a total of 7-8 degrees difference. You could do the rotation on the bench if you can hold the axle down well enough. You'll need a long bar to fit inside the knuckle holes (we left the old bearing races in to leverage against those). If you've made a mark across the channel it will be easier to tell once the knuckle is free and starts to rotate. Then just measure your starting degree and go back the 7-8 degrees. You can also rotate the knuckles under the rig with the axle bolted to the springs and the weight back on the axle. Either way I'd check the caster one more time under the rig with the weight on it before welding to make sure you have it set where you want it. It's really not a hard thing to do.
Pic's of Jason's
Builds - 4BT/ NV4500/ SOA - AKA- Project Snowball
What I'd do is pull the axle back off and strip it back down. Cut the tubes like you see in the picture. With your measurements today you know you need to rotate the knuckle back to: 3-4 degrees - 11 degrees = a total of 7-8 degrees difference. You could do the rotation on the bench if you can hold the axle down well enough. You'll need a long bar to fit inside the knuckle holes (we left the old bearing races in to leverage against those). If you've made a mark across the channel it will be easier to tell once the knuckle is free and starts to rotate. Then just measure your starting degree and go back the 7-8 degrees. You can also rotate the knuckles under the rig with the axle bolted to the springs and the weight back on the axle. Either way I'd check the caster one more time under the rig with the weight on it before welding to make sure you have it set where you want it. It's really not a hard thing to do.
tmxmotorsports
SILVER Star
On the measurements that you took of your caster angle are you on flat ground taking the measurements?
