Builds 4508 - Ultra4 Racetruck Build (1 Viewer)

[nukegoat]

I completely agree! I want to go back before KOH and run all those trails just to see how they are with no pressure and taking my time. A 4400 guy that was next to us (had Bill Baird's old IFS car) said spooners and outer limits is hard, so we definitely would of gotten wrecked trying to go through all that and with no prerunning. Will be interested to see how next time compares to this time!

The last part of outer limits really sucks from a technical driving standpoint. Took me a long while to get through it. I haven't run spooners but I heard it's on par with wrecking ball and outer limits and so on.

I never believed the trails really change *that* much, but the last time I was there, I ran sledgehammer which is typically pretty straightforward and it was tore up really bad. Hardest trail we ran that whole time.

Remember that you ran bender alley and jack north, though, plus you raced down backdoor (savage!), so it's not like you're going to be shocked by the other trails.

 

[snivilous]

Time to have some fun!

So I moved (back) to Utah a week ago, and it was evident that doing anything out of a storage unit wasn't gonna work so I started looking for shop space for both the trucks and my companies. On Friday I signed for this 2600+sqft shop!

SUPER stoked about that. The 80 fired right up and so far no issues besides the axles making an assload of noise. I jacked it up and so far the obvious issue seems to be the front passenger axle is jacked up and presumably what keeps popping. The rear end spins fine and the front left seems fine. I will still pull the shafts and 3rds to inspect everything and swap the chromos in and beef everything up, but if it's really just the one axle that's busted that would be awesome! I find it hard to believe that 3 wheels spinning at KOH wasn't enough traction to go anywhere after I got winched over and couldn't drive down the hill, but maybe it was more gnarly than I thought and without fully locked 4wd you really couldn't go anywhere at all...

RCVs have been a bit of a cluster, they finally shipped last week and luckily Cruiser Outfitters was able to change the shipping address at the last minute to my co-driver's address in SLC instead of my parents house in Colorado. But then he was out camping this weekend which was when the RCVs were trying to be delivered.... so now they're in a Fedex facility in SLC but I'm in Southern Utah... so HOPEFULLY I'll be able to grab them later this week when I'm heading to SLC anyways. Good thing I ordered those over a month ago since the lead time was decently long! I of course have the Nitro rear axles so can swap those in whenever. For now I'll wait to do anything with the 80 until I get the RCVs and just do everything at once probably, maybe swap the rears in this week if I'm feeling froggy and get the shop laid out how I want.

Everything on the 80 seems fine otherwise. Need to fix the shock resi mount that got bent over when it rolled, and will need to push the roof out in a few places--particularly on the driver's side since my top window net release is all bent up so I can't pull it. The front end and tire carrier are pretty rusted, but nothing a few hours won't fix. The hood and hood pins are pretty wrecked too. I drove it around the parking lot and everything feels alright besides the axle popping.

I also have a buddy from California who's coming to wheel Sand Hollow with me in two weeks, and he picked up a TK1 racing sway bar (minus mounting tube) for $120 (normally a $500 sway bar kit) so by the end of the month I should have at least one sway bar and then my next race is May 11th in California.

So stuff should finally start happening again with this truck!

 

[Ronny Grady]

Back in Action!

 

[Jgunner]

Beast of a shop! Jealous!

 

[snivilous]

Finally got these:

Pulled the driver's side apart since the passenger side didn't have a shaft in it still, which that was a total bitch, for whatever reason the birf did not want to slide out nicely until I eventually just beat on it with a hammer and got it to come out. Here is a picture of the diff before removing it, remember this is exactly how it came from KOH.

So all the top studs are gone, and half of the bottom ones are bolts instead of studs. By the way, the driver's axle shaft seemed fine. Joint felt sticky like the other side but otherwise no issues. Here's the diff after I pulled it and found the noise:

Two teeth are more or less totally missing, and five teeth surrounding them are decently chewed up. Pinion has a few gouges but nothing bad. So this has to be where the noise in the front end was from, I'm assuming (?) the locker is fine... But, according to facebook people I need to replace both sets of gears and rebuild the whole diff so I'll probably be talking to Cruiser Outfitters and deciding what to do. I already have quotes from them on multiple diff setups. I'd like to run an ARB or a selectable since it'd help with the body roll and I think destress the front drivetrain quite a bit but that's more money and complexity...

Kind of funny that from racing I didn't blow a shaft, but just messed up some gear teeth and the rest of the truck (besides steering) seems to be totally fine. Gonna check out the rear but it's felt and sounded fine so not worried about it.

Also I thought this was kind of cool, apparently this wheel hit something pretty hard. 1/4" aluminum chunked out down to the tire:

 

[Douglas S]

The birf not coming out easily is a sign of a bent axle housing.

 

[baldilocks]

Does your rear driveline vibrate? It looks to be at a steep angle with a possible disparatey between the yoke angles. I ask because I had a hell off a time with my rear driveline once I went past 4” of lift. Adjusting the pinion height could not make it run completely vibe free so I went to a DC joint at the transfer case.

 

[Jgunner]

The birf not coming out easily is a sign of a bent axle housing.

If thats the case, he should 9.5 it

 

[snivilous]

The birf not coming out easily is a sign of a bent axle housing.

That thought had crossed my mind as well. Is there a reliable/easy way to tell if the housing is bent? If it is then there's no point in getting a new diff or throwing the RCVs in it. I would rather cut my losses and upgrade then.

Does your rear driveline vibrate? It looks to be at a steep angle with a possible disparatey between the yoke angles. I ask because I had a hell off a time with my rear driveline once I went past 4” of lift. Adjusting the pinion height could not make it run completely vibe free so I went to a DC joint at the transfer case.

Mine stock is a double cardan at the transfer case in the rear I'm 95% sure (jk guess it's not).... regardless the truck doesn't vibrate at all. It's actually incredibly smooth running/driving.

 

[baldilocks]

Stock double cardan? I think not. Glad to your running vibe free though.

 

[nukegoat]

I was at the hammers last week and poured out an energy drink for you

 

[snivilous]

Alright, I've had lots of ideas swirling in my head but as far as short term stuff is concerned, get ready for my ultra ghetto plan!

So the housing seems to obviously be bent and the diff obviously needs a full rebuild. It's obvious this whole axle assembly is done for, but I don't have the time or money (mostly time) to be going and getting one tons and throwing them under the truck. But on the other hand, I don't want to be spending money on fixing the diff, then throwing my brand new RCVs in it, and then still at the end of the day having a jacked up housing.

So here is the plan I came up with 5 minutes ago and seeing if anyone on here thinks this is a horrible idea: I'm going to race on everything I currently have. I will run the screwed up diff, fill the axle with whatever fancy fluid and additives people can think of to try and help it, run the stock axles since the ones I pulled are fine and I have spares. This way, I save the cost of fixing the diff plus can sell the RCVs, then in the mean time I can find a Dana 60 and right after the Ultra4 race on May 11th I can go to town and swap axles and be ready to go for the next U4 race on June 15th. Everything about the front end is obviously done for, so seems pointless to try and keep putting money in or destroying/using the RCVs. The May 11th race is a 2 mile short course, so hopefully I don't need 4wd that much in the event the front diff completely fails, and as is right now it runs and drives fine except the front end clicks every time the gears go past the jacked up part. So may as well run it into the ground and then completely swap it!

Anyone think this is somehow an utterly horrible idea outside the normal realm of "you shouldn't do that"? To appease everyone, here is a picture from KOH.

 

[I Lean]

The front diff is junk, I wouldn't bother running 20 feet on that thing. It will continue to break off, and could even lock up eventually. If nothing else, you'll ensure further damage and a frustrating run in 2WD.

In fact, if you're dead-set on running as-is, I wouldn't even put the front axleshafts or driveshaft in. Just run in 2WD and take your chances that way.

 

[snivilous]

The front diff is junk, I wouldn't bother running 20 feet on that thing. It will continue to break off, and could even lock up eventually. If nothing else, you'll ensure further damage and a frustrating run in 2WD.

In fact, if you're dead-set on running as-is, I wouldn't even put the front axleshafts or driveshaft in. Just run in 2WD and take your chances that way.

That had also occurred to me, since it seems like if it locks up or one side fails then that will be a pain in the ass to fix at the pit when I could of just gone in 2WD from the get go. I have too much s*** going on to swap the axle in the next 3 weeks, so seems like running it as is is the best bet unless there's an alternate idea?

 

[scottryana]

Throw a mismatched used third in the front diff, it would even be better than running the old busted one. Couldn't run 4wd at high speeds but on the rocks it might work for a while.

 

[Broski]

Just MHO if you want to be a racer you need to fix it. Run the bent housing, through some new gears with the stock axles in. should be good to go for the short course. You will hate your self if you run it as is and it locks up and leaves you dead in the water as I lean suggested mite happen. It looks like a time bomb.
What ever you decide to do good luck with you Endeavor & have fun racing

 

[RustyNailJustin]

These guys nailed it. You have to do something cause that gear set is going to make you hate your day. It's a lot of work to even get to a race, pay for fuel, I assume you are signed up for the series and that's why you are pushing so hard to just go.
There is a 0% chance I would travel to a race with known issue like that.

 

[snivilous]

I emailed Ultra4 and asked to drop out from my series commitment. With how busy I've been lately, it made sense to not be committed to the whole series and this way I can just fix and upgrade the truck as I want and not be forced to have it running for certain events. The 80 raced KOH which was the specific reason I built it, so now time to take a break and have fun. I'm still gonna try to race the local races like BOR and Dirt Riot and Lucas Oil, but with the exception of maybe trying to make Nationals I'll just skip the long drives and money needed for the Ultra4 races.

And with that said, I'm gonna throw the front end together without any shafts and go have fun with it in 2WD this weekend and probably leave it that way until I find a deal on a set of axles!

 

[snivilous]

So I threw the front end back together, I didn't even bother putting the diff in and just shoved some rags in the axle tubes (queue the hatred), mainly because the new beefed up tie rod wouldn't fit with the diff so seemed like an easier solution than shaving and reinforcing the tie rod. Took the doors off, aligned the tires, charged the shocks to make sure they were still full, and then drove around a bit! Went over to a nearby car wash and washed the underside off and the back of the truck. Everything felt pretty normal, though still a ton of body roll due to the spooled rear end. After that went over to Car Quest which is near my shop and grabbed some scotch bright and rust remover stuff along with some diff fluid and other s***. And then for just my luck, turning out of the parking lot I heard that awesome pop.

So I broke the hub studs/shear pins for the third time. Coincidentally (or is it? The plot thickens...) two sets of studs have sheared as a result of doing a small radius turn and having the spool--the first being turning at the stop sign in Moab (which also coincidentally, was the passenger side studs that failed doing a right hand turn.... the plot thickens....)

And of course this is probably some lingering issue from KOH, maybe something had already popped then, or they were loose... who knows, who cares, it's obvious that going over 8mph offroad does not make for happy hub studs. The plan is to go camping and just some easy, mostly sand/fast, wheeling this weekend and I have a spare hub (since luckily I attained two spare hubs when the studs blew the second time when I was at KOH) so I'll just slap that on tomorrow and roll out.

Also I would like some opinions:

Option 1 -- I can get a pair of Dana 60s (front/rear with the rear diff welded) for $600.

Option 2 -- There's a guy selling a bunch of s*** about 7 hours south of me. $4000 and you get: passenger drop Kingpin 60 with a detroit, 35 spline chromos, 5.13s, toyota flange, high steer, arp studs, etc. A Dana 70hd that's narrowed 5" to match the 60 and is setup for 35 spline, and has a locked 5.13 diff, disk brakes, no shafts though. Plus a full hydro setup (ram, double ended pump, resi, etc.), and a single ended ram, plus four 16" SAW coilovers (two with springs), plus 5x 40" creepy crawlers on H2 wheels, plus a bunch of other miscellaneous s*** and stock stuff for the axles. ---but again, it's a 7 hour drive one way.

If I could convince myself to spend $4k, I can probably sell everything else I don't want for like $3k and only be in around $1000 for fully built axles and just need a rear diff. Or I can save 14 hours of driving and get some stock dana 60s. What would you do?

 

[I Lean]

A stock rear 60 probably isn't what you want, since it will likely have 30 spline shafts. (except for some rare packages...) You want one with the larger spindle that will accept 35 spline shafts, which means a newer 60U or a 70. (or a 14 bolt, Sterling 10.25, etc)

The front 60 will be a fine donor as long as it's what you want--which I'll assume is GM/Dodge for the passenger side drop. They will have 35 spline inner shafts, and the spindles will be large enough to accept 35 spline outers. Build it how you like.

Buying the already-built set will save you time though, which sounds like it's in short supply for you...so that's a factor.