Builds 4508 - Ultra4 Racetruck Build (2 Viewers)

[Bripars40]

So I threw the front end back together, I didn't even bother putting the diff in and just shoved some rags in the axle tubes (queue the hatred), mainly because the new beefed up tie rod wouldn't fit with the diff so seemed like an easier solution than shaving and reinforcing the tie rod. Took the doors off, aligned the tires, charged the shocks to make sure they were still full, and then drove around a bit! Went over to a nearby car wash and washed the underside off and the back of the truck. Everything felt pretty normal, though still a ton of body roll due to the spooled rear end. After that went over to Car Quest which is near my shop and grabbed some scotch bright and rust remover stuff along with some diff fluid and other s***. And then for just my luck, turning out of the parking lot I heard that awesome pop.

So I broke the hub studs/shear pins for the third time. Coincidentally (or is it? The plot thickens...) two sets of studs have sheared as a result of doing a small radius turn and having the spool--the first being turning at the stop sign in Moab (which also coincidentally, was the passenger side studs that failed doing a right hand turn.... the plot thickens....)

And of course this is probably some lingering issue from KOH, maybe something had already popped then, or they were loose... who knows, who cares, it's obvious that going over 8mph offroad does not make for happy hub studs. The plan is to go camping and just some easy, mostly sand/fast, wheeling this weekend and I have a spare hub (since luckily I attained two spare hubs when the studs blew the second time when I was at KOH) so I'll just slap that on tomorrow and roll out.

Also I would like some opinions:

Option 1 -- I can get a pair of Dana 60s (front/rear with the rear diff welded) for $600.

Option 2 -- There's a guy selling a bunch of s*** about 7 hours south of me. $4000 and you get: passenger drop Kingpin 60 with a detroit, 35 spline chromos, 5.13s, toyota flange, high steer, arp studs, etc. A Dana 70hd that's narrowed 5" to match the 60 and is setup for 35 spline, and has a locked 5.13 diff, disk brakes, no shafts though. Plus a full hydro setup (ram, double ended pump, resi, etc.), and a single ended ram, plus four 16" SAW coilovers (two with springs), plus 5x 40" creepy crawlers on H2 wheels, plus a bunch of other miscellaneous s*** and stock stuff for the axles. ---but again, it's a 7 hour drive one way.

If I could convince myself to spend $4k, I can probably sell everything else I don't want for like $3k and only be in around $1000 for fully built axles and just need a rear diff. Or I can save 14 hours of driving and get some stock dana 60s. What would you do?

At the rate you’re going I think you should buy the kingpin package. Especially if you can resell your current parts.

 

[snivilous]

Finally was able to go wheeling this weekend! If you guys didn't think I was a hack already and a disgrace to the cruiser community, you probably will now! I went to replace the hub with the studs that sheared only to realize the spare hub I had was way too short (earlier 80 series hub?), and I didn't really have the means or will power to extract the sheared studs--but I wanted to go wheeling! Soooo I welded the axle shaft straight to the hub. I have spare axle shafts, the hub was pretty destroyed already (this was the side that had already been sheared in Moab and then redrilled and now sheared again), and I wanted to wheel! So my girlfriend and I went to Sand Hollow, met up with a guy from California with a runner who was passing through, camped two nights, and had a blast in 2WD! I wheeled all weekend with an axle shaft welded to a hub, and no front drive components and a bunch of rags stuffed in the front axle to try and keep dirt out (it's fxxxed regardless so who cares really).

After this photo^ I got pretty stuck in this crack, everything looked easy until I get aways down the crack and reach a little step up and going down hill, only having RWD, and the front tires at 6psi made it impossible to pop the front over it, and then I couldn't back up since there was a step up behind me. The guy with the runner tried to pull me forward, but the tires just squished out and wouldn't hop up. Ended up taking two comp buggies both winching me from two angles to pull me backwards and out. One of those things where if I had 4WD it would've been a cake walk. One of the guys asked if I was stuck in 2WD, and I told him I had started in 2WD and no front diff but had wanted to go wheeling!

This was on the West Rim trail^ We were searching for the "Wall of Doom" obstacle which we found and needless to say no one attempted. There was a cool little stair case type obstacle next to it that first the 4Runner did though it took him a couple tries (he's dual locked on 35s, 5.29s, etc.) and after seeing he could do it I wanted to try. Took me two tries, with the first trying to crawl it and obviously not having enough traction, and second giving it a decent bump and walking up it. No one got any photos since I went up it so fast Amazing what a lot of shock and a bit of speed can do haha

The 80 flexes decently, she still had quite a bit of travel left in both the front and back:

Had to employ a bit of wiggling the body since the rear bumper got hung up, my girlfriend ended up driving the 80 for the first time and cruising around a bit.

Annnnd then we ran out of gas (seemingly).... I had put in 5 gallons the day we got there from the one full jerry can I had, and didn't think I would go through 5 gallons plus whatever was left in the tank from KOH, but I was obviously wrong! The 4Runner fueled us up and then of course the stupid pump wouldn't suck gas. We had the same issue at KOH where the last pump died, put in the backup pump (this one) and couldn't figure out why the fxxx it wouldn't suck gas. It seems like the pump needs to be manually primed, which I attempted but didn't really work so said screw it and just had the runner tow us back to the trailer. Luckily this was the last time we were planning on wheeling before heading home yesterday. I don't think anything is actually messed up, but with that said I think it's time to buy an actually good pump because having to tear the fuel system apart every time you run out of gas (and there's no fuel gauge) is stupid.

My buddy got some drone footage and his wife got a few videos in some whoops, so maybe I can post some videos once they go through those. The 80 is still a blast in 2wd, though I can't wait for 4wd since crawling obviously is a little limited plus it's evident in the whoops that the suspension wasn't tuned for 2wd. I also need a lot more horsepower for the sand since low range is too slow, but hi range isn't torquey enough. Now to just buy some one tons, 4 link the rear, do an engine swap, replace the fuel pump....

 

[snivilous]

A few days ago I tried firing the 80 up and with a little sputtering she fired up without issue, so now totally confused by why it wouldn't start when I added gas when it originally ran out, since sitting apparently fixed it... Anyways, decided to go play around at a nearby area yesterday.

Worked like a champ for the most part! Tried to do a little crawling in an area and the tranny is really unhappy, before it would pop out of reverse and then yesterday it was popping out of drive a few times. Not sure if the shifter is just jacked or the tranny itself is messed up, if I hold it in the gear physically then it's fine. Otherwise everything worked fine and was a lot of fun to drive around! It's funny since as a racecar it feels like a pile that needs tons of things fixed, but as a normal trail rig it's a lot of fun and super capable. The difference between racing and normal wheeling, even if it's the same terrain, is pretty dramatic--kind of goes without saying, but I always have fun just playing around but the instant I try to go hard 75% of the truck isn't built enough to handle even a flat section of road. Kind of funny...

Still in 2wd, there's a Kingpin Dana 60 and Dana 70 online for $1200 I was debating getting but think I'm gonna skip on it. Still not really sure what I want to do with the truck so probably just gonna save my money. I'm hoping to race the Vernal Dirt Riot in two weeks since I think I can do that in 2wd.

 

[snivilous]

Some updates, went out for a little wheeling on memorial day and endo'd the truck going over a sand dune:

Using some RZRs as an anchor point we winched it over, had to put some ATF in, and drove it back to the parking lot without issue! Then on Wednesday or so I decided to go and do the Lucas Oil regional short course race near Salt Lake City so started prepping the truck and making sure nothing was broken from the roll.

Fixed the bent resi mount, pulled the spare off, put the front doors back on, washed it, swapped the tires on the beadlocks to some short course tires I got from a friend, and then other minor tweaks and fixes. I also maxed out all the bypass adjustments and lowered the truck as much as possible without the springs flopping around too much at droop to try and stop the body roll, which helped a bit.

I raced twice over the weekend, round 1 on Saturday and round 2 on Sunday. The truck was really hard to drive on Saturday, but we were able to get a 3rd place finish which was also the first race I've ever finished! Was pretty stoked with that. I had brought some springs I had laying around just on the off chance I wanted to swap spring rates, so Saturday after the race I worked on the truck. I swapped the upper springs to the really soft springs I had brought, and kept the stiffest rates on the bottom. This dropped the truck to 2-4" of up travel, and then I moved the crossovers down so they were kissing the dual rate slider so any compression would be in single rate and any droop would be in dual rate. And then the other big thing I did was I took my limit straps and wrapped them under the axles so I was essentially strapped at 6" of total travel or so. All these tweaks made it so the suspension was as stiff as possible for up travel, and as slow as possible for rebound as well as being very limited in how far it could droop.

I was only getting a few feet of air at most, so even though I only had 6" of total travel per wheel it still felt totally fine landing and now with the limited travel the body could only rotate over so far before the suspension maxed out.

These changes made the truck a ton easier to drive and handle the best it ever has, everywhere it felt way flatter in the turns which is where we had issues on Saturday. I still had quite a few 2 wheel bicycle tips happen on Sunday, but now when it popped up on two wheels it was a lot easier to tell I was popping up and not just the body falling over. I think I actually bicycle'd it more on Sunday just since I was able to enter turns so much faster and full throttle through them where as I had to go really slow before.

But alas, even with the truck a lot more dialed, at the end of the day it was still a 5000lb Land Cruiser that made 200hp over 20 years ago. We pulled off a 2nd place finish on Sunday, but it was frustrating at best. I was faster everywhere except out of corners, every single corner I would catch up with 1st place and get level with him and even gain on one of the guys in the Pro Ultra4 class, but once the corner ended everyone would take off and I was floored entering, going through, and exiting the corner and the fat pig just wouldn't go. I'm far from a good driver, so I'm sure I could of shaved off some time, but it was really annoying how if I had even 25hp more I bet I would've gotten 1st since I was pushing as hard as I could and gaining everywhere until the straights came up and then just left in the dust.

Anyways I had a blast regardless! The truck didn't have any issues and I finished two races and podiumed twice! Not sure what I'll do next, but the 80 needs a massive make over if I keep it though I'm not sure if keeping it is the right move or building something dedicated for racing is the right move.

 

[scottryana]

You won’t hear me say this often but this truck needs an LS and TH400.

 

[Jgunner]

You won’t hear me say this often but this truck needs an LS and TH400.

These are good combos! 6.0 or 6.2 and a th400 mixed with a np208 passenger drop(i got one i am selling it also fits 4l80e) would be a good combo. Stout and powerful.

 

[snivilous]

Been on the fence for awhile about what to do with the truck. A friend of mine who races 4400 recommended that I look at the 80 as if I just bought it, and how I would want to change it vs just building a new truck. And that's the attitude I'm gonna run with! A few weeks ago I decided to essentially eliminate everything I don't need and try to lose weight and increase other performance areas too---so naturally I cut most of the body off. Today I finally worked on it a bit more and cut the whole rear of the truck off that I didn't want anymore.

I will cut out the whole front of the body too, and will replace all the body panels with aluminum and quick release nuts--firewall, doors, floorboards, roof, etc. The plan is to move the fuel cell forward but keep it as far back and down as I can, how this turns out in practice I'm not sure but I'm thinking having it between the shocks. The rear firewall will get swapped out and I'll have the radiators mounted right behind the seats. The spare tire will be mounted horizontally above everything I'm thinking and might double up as a bumper, but my intention is make it easier to access as well as shed the big scorpion tail I had going on before.

I also plan to replace the entire drivetrain from the engine to the axles and also link the rear. Most likely go with a dana 60 and 70, maybe a 14 bolt. Powertrain will definitely be from an LS and mated with an atlas probably. I am hoping to race KOH 2019, but if I don't it's not a big deal (no balls to the wall timeline like before). For now I will cut up and fabricate everything how I want, and look for deals on stuff and see how money is. Hopefully the 80 parts will help pay for some of the expenses.

I'm excited though! Sadly it won't really be an 80 anymore, albeit I'll refer to it as such and I'll write "FJ80" all over the body panels and use the stock hood and maybe even the front doors still. So in regards to posting on mud, I'm not sure if I still will since it's now undergoing the phase two conversion to being 99% racecar vs just a caged and tweaked land cruiser. Regardless, as I said progress will be slow and chill and meant to have fun!

 

[Ronny Grady]

Rip it up big dawg!

 

[nukegoat]

Pony up for spidertrax housings or equivalent. Dont run a 70 or a 14 bolt. Too heavy for go fast since youve chopped all the sprung weight off

 

[snivilous]

Forgot to say, if anyone is near UT and is interested in any of the remaining 80 gear let me know. Gonna sell the whole powertrain and what's left of the axles and spares. I still have a full set of chromos brand new in the box I need to get rid of too.

Pony up for spidertrax housings or equivalent. Dont run a 70 or a 14 bolt. Too heavy for go fast since youve chopped all the sprung weight off

Well yea, obviously that's the goal but if I find a deal and don't have to spend $9k per axle on fabbed gear then that's tempting. But it would be nice to fully do this 100% right so I never have to do a massive upgrade again....

 

[nukegoat]

Forgot to say, if anyone is near UT and is interested in any of the remaining 80 gear let me know. Gonna sell the whole powertrain and what's left of the axles and spares. I still have a full set of chromos brand new in the box I need to get rid of too.


Well yea, obviously that's the goal but if I find a deal and don't have to spend $9k per axle on fabbed gear then that's tempting. But it would be nice to fully do this 100% right so I never have to do a massive upgrade again....

Blingy parts are worth it. I would also do trailing arms in the rear!

 

[jcardona1]

I will cut out the whole front of the body too, and [...]plan to replace the entire drivetrain from the engine to the axles and also link the rear. Most likely go with a dana 60 and 70, maybe a 14 bolt. Powertrain will definitely be from an LS and mated with an atlas probably.

I love how this has evolved What will be Toyota after all this, the firewall and floor pan?

 

[snivilous]

I lost all my wrenching cred pulling the engine, though in my defense this is the first engine I've pulled 100% myself though that doesn't make me feel any better...

Everything was going fine until the actual pulling (besides spilling 7 out of the 8 gallons of coolant...) and I could not for the life of me figure out why it wouldn't just pop off the engine mounts. It was a long day, turns out I'm retarded and even after saying **** it and cutting off one mount with the plas since I thought it was stuck and it still not moving, I realized I just needed to jack the engine higher -_- I had the jack stands under the axle, and I thought the engine was pulling the frame up--nope, it was just the suspension unloading like literally 8 or 10 inches.

And then of course it was a total pain in the ass to pull everything over the winch plate since the engine hoist would barely go high enough for the bell housing to clear, that was AFTER I removed the jack stands and just laid the axle on the ground and the thing still sat super tall. Plus then it took me an embarrassingly long time to realize I only needed to pick the drivetrain up from the mount on the back of the block which is right at the CG, that was after like an hour or two of trying to somehow grab the mid engine mount and the tranny mount with chains.

Anyways, it's out, I'll clean it off and then list it. All the oils looked fine when I drained them, no metal flakes anywhere or indication of issues. So if you know anyone who wants a drivetrain near Utah and is fine if it raced KOH haha. Next step is strip it down to suspension and just chassis and then go wash it, so cutting the body off, removing the comms/air and electrical, pulling seats, etc.

Blingy parts are worth it. I would also do trailing arms in the rear!

I'm thinking of doing lots of bling. And trust me, if I was allowed to do trailing arms they would of been done a long time ago, 4500 rules require shocks mounted straight to the axle though :/

I love how this has evolved What will be Toyota after all this, the firewall and floor pan?

Thanks Jose! And I'm not keeping those pieces either, at the end of the day the only true Toyota pieces besides the few feet of frame will most likely be the hood and I think I'll keep the steering shaft since it works fine--maybe the steering box for a bit longer if the splines are still fine. But it WAS a Landcruiser which is what counts

 

[White Stripe]

How about just buying a buggy already done? They don't sell well and are cheap compared to the work and money others have put into them...
Goat built ibex chassis Ultra 4
Bad Taco rock buggy

 

[snivilous]

How about just buying a buggy already done? They don't sell well and are cheap compared to the work and money others have put into them...

Simple reason, I don't have 30k laying around or want to wait and save that to get a buggy. I like wrenching and saying I did it myself, so i prefer throwing a little money here and there and taking some time vs saving and writing a big check once (and I'm not a fan of being in debt, especially for a racecar, so don't want to get a loan).

 

[snivilous]

Spent all day working on it and it's down to the bare chassis!

I washed it, probably will a few more times and then start fabrication. I also have a lead on some 6.0/4l80 vehicle's, so I MIGHT pick one up later this week. This new build was supposed to be slow and mellow, but it's kind of taking off! And since it still has the VIN number on it, I think it will definitely be considered an 80 for awhile

 

[nukegoat]

Spent all day working on it and it's down to the bare chassis!

I washed it, probably will a few more times and then start fabrication. I also have a lead on some 6.0/4l80 vehicle's, so I MIGHT pick one up later this week. This new build was supposed to be slow and mellow, but it's kind of taking off! And since it still has the VIN number on it, I think it will definitely be considered an 80 for awhile

Let me say I totally love this. Please keep posting and giving us progress updates. That said, I don't know if you can say you drive an 80 series land cruiser any more.

 

[snivilous]

Let me say I totally love this. Please keep posting and giving us progress updates. That said, I don't know if you can say you drive an 80 series land cruiser any more.

So a lot has/hasn't happened as of late. I've spent the last few months just growing my shop resources and spent hardly any money on toys. I decided that with all the parts I have laying around collecting dust, I could build a little buggy with minimal up front cost. I decided to go down that route and last week ordered a Rock Lizard chassis (from Fabn801, based out of SLC). This is a rock lizard:

I have a wrecked Tacoma with a 3rz I bought a few months ago and been trying to part out and had NO interest. So my plan is to use all the parts I have from the 80 and the drivetrain from the taco. I talked to Fabn801 for awhile and we got a plan together of how to upgrade his chassis to being mostly 1.75" to give more weight margin for Ultra4 since I wanted to be able to race if I was gonna do a full tube buggy. So I stripped the 80 down, made a pile of parts and weighed a bunch of stuff, and ordered a chassis!

The plan is to race 4800 (the chassis will need to be decently tweaked to meet spec) and have it be 100% toyota based. Again, 95% of the parts is literally parts laying around the shop. So the plan is: turbocharged 3rz (hoping for 300whp or so) and tranny/tcase, a diamond front axle that's driver drop to run the taco tcase and a 9.5" 3rd member since I have multiple of them--it'll essentially be a flipped 80 axle with a 9.5 since I couldn't sell my RCVs so will run those and then probably get some high steer knuckles, probably run the stock rear 80 axle or maybe get a diamond housing for the rear too (again, I couldn't sell my Nitro chromo rear shafts so will use those), fuel cell, 80 radiator with the electric fan in the back, trailing arms in the rear and maybe do leading arms too, gonna sell my coilovers and bypasses to bump up to 3.0 coilovers, full hydro, same beadlocks and 37s I have, etc.

What I really like about this plan is the issue with the 80 was weight--it weighed a lot, which meant big axles and big hp to make it ever get truly fast. This thing I'm aiming for a dry weight around 3000lbs, so even pushing 200hp out of the boosted 3rz is double the power to weight ratio of the 80. And besides a front housing to run driver drop and full hydro, I literally have everything sitting around so any up front cost is just to pimp things out. And since it'll all be standard width axles and a pretty stock drivetrain (I've been reading that just a head gasket swap on a 3rz can reliably do 15psi of boost and 300-350whp), so any breakage will be almost entirely off the shelf parts and all the spare 80 axle parts I have will completely plug in since I won't have custom shafts.

So that's what I've been up to... the chassis is still a few weeks out from me getting it, and I've been caging my buddies 4600 4runner (or trying to when I'm not traveling) so he can race KOH. This 4800 toyota buggy I'm hoping to have running by April, so a pretty mild build time since I want it dialed and well tested and not jump straight into a big race. Maybe I'll make a build thread on here? But besides axles there isn't much 80 going on. As far as my 80 chassis, I'll probably cut it up and grab the pieces of steel I like and scrap the rest.

 

[Beej]

Sub'd finally found snivilous on 'mud

 

[Jgunner]

Well, on the topic of shocks: 2.5 vs 3.0

3.0 is for sure race size, they are better. But if you weigh twice as much 2.5’s did their job, then half as much weight should really allow them to stay cooler.

In full blown race rigs i have seen 2.0 shocks but monster bypasses. The shock becomes a coil carrier and has no valving to it. All dampening is within the bypass.