I would start by looking at oil flow. Friction is what eats up a cam so why is there so much more friction on yours? Maybe low oil flow to the lifters.
2F RV Cam and Valve Noise - HELP! (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter ColonelMustardFJ40
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- Thread starter
- #22
Thanks for the response. Oil pressure is+60psi at highway speed and 40psi at idle with a hot engine. I turned the engine over without the valve cover on and made quite a mess with oil from the rocker arms, good thing I didn't start it. Cam bearings look good and I checked the connecting rods for correct orientation with the oil holes facing the cam shaft. What else would you suggest to check oil flow?
BTW I have sent the cam and lifters to CompCams for examination and hardness checking. My machinist thinks the lifters are soft.
BTW I have sent the cam and lifters to CompCams for examination and hardness checking. My machinist thinks the lifters are soft.
According to "lehiguy" the Man-a-fre lifters are crap . They have a tendency to mushroom .
Due to his advise I used stock lifters ( had them ground before fitting them ) when I fitted my new camshaft ( I used a Delta grind ) .
Will be interesting to see what Compcams have to say.
Due to his advise I used stock lifters ( had them ground before fitting them ) when I fitted my new camshaft ( I used a Delta grind ) .
Will be interesting to see what Compcams have to say.
** COUGH ** webcamshafts.com
- Thread starter
- #25
I am still waiting to get the cam and lifters back from CompCams. I the results when I get them. Thanks for all your input.
What springs did you get? On the head rebuild did they shim the springs?
Delta did my better than stock re-grind. Great local shop to work with. I am pretty sure it only cost me $60 for the re-grind.
Good luck
Good luck
rsbcruiser
SILVER Star
Here is a shoulder you can cry on. Just sayin cause the exact same thing happened to me. Turned out to be the knurled valve guides were too tight and exploded. Check your valve stems through the ports for damage. X2 on the Man-a-fre lifters, junk. Go Toyo.
Downey
SILVER Star
#1 Look at my comments on "Splangy" post below regarding lost vacuum after Cam install.
#2 The down hill side of all "higher lift" cam lobes always makes more noise (and probably accelerated wear).
#3 I'm by no means the expert on this, but Clay Smith Engineering told me the tops of lifters should have a slight radius (crowned). Stock new lifters are flat, so evidently should be ground with a slight radius prior to use. I saw no mention of this above???
#2 The down hill side of all "higher lift" cam lobes always makes more noise (and probably accelerated wear).
#3 I'm by no means the expert on this, but Clay Smith Engineering told me the tops of lifters should have a slight radius (crowned). Stock new lifters are flat, so evidently should be ground with a slight radius prior to use. I saw no mention of this above???
If the lifters are FLAT, they will not spin. You should be able to take 2 lifters and put them face to face, and you should see the crown.
Shawn
Shawn
Those cam lobes are soft, they wore, not a friction/lack of oil issue. Also, one thing I caught in your comment was that the cam was a new billet reground. I find that curious in that Melling offers a MC803 camshaft and the specs are lower than your indication. There is no way to re-grind a camshaft and make the lobe taller, it has to be welded. And that is where the issue comes in, it isn't as hard as it was new. Heat treating is too often over simplified. It is a very exacting process to achieve the desired results. You can't just heat something up to cherry red and quench it and think you've done the job is what I'm getting at.
That's simply not true. You can certainly give the cam more lift by grinding part of the lobe.
[QUOTE="Splangy" That's simply not true. You can certainly give the cam more lift by grinding part of the lobe.[/QUOTE]
I was also confused about this till the Delta guy explained it to me. Simple once ya see it.
I was also confused about this till the Delta guy explained it to me. Simple once ya see it.
Downey
SILVER Star
Cams with higher lift (using stock strength springs) can cause "valve float" (which then makes a slapping noise when making contact with the back side of the lobe, plus the higher lift can cause "coil bind". When Downey was in business we sold different springs for our cams, Pioneer Automotive Industries #053432700 (still available, but must be bought in quantities of 100 springs).
(a) Stock springs rated at 59.5 to 71.6 lbs., these rated at 120 lbs., prevents valve float, less slapping noise.
(b) Stock springs coil bind at .440", these coil bind at .570". If your cam lifts more than .440", you are binding the springs, soooo this then has no choice but to flatten out the cam.
(a) Stock springs rated at 59.5 to 71.6 lbs., these rated at 120 lbs., prevents valve float, less slapping noise.
(b) Stock springs coil bind at .440", these coil bind at .570". If your cam lifts more than .440", you are binding the springs, soooo this then has no choice but to flatten out the cam.
I was also confused about this till the Delta guy explained it to me. Simple once ya see it.
View attachment 1504121[/QUOTE]
I see what you are proposing there, however, camshafts are castings and the lobes are surface hardened. Grinding this much risks not leaving much, if any, of the surface hardening in place. But I'll take your word for it that Delta has a process in place to address the issue. I would prefer to leave that portion alone, it isn't a race car.
[QUOTE="cuencanolenny, I see what you are proposing there, however, camshafts are castings and the lobes are surface hardened. Grinding this much risks not leaving much, if any, of the surface hardening in place. But I'll take your word for it that Delta has a process in place to address the issue. I would prefer to leave that portion alone, it isn't a race car.[/QUOTE]
The same process/geometry would apply to regrinding a worn cam to stock. Mine was worn beyond spec and they said they had to see it to evaluate if it could be saved. I sent the cam, lifters and a note describing the engine and use. I told them the F.5 was de-smogged with a new Weber 32/36 and I drove with too big of tires for my gearing and only drove around in the swamp mud in mostly 1st sometimes 2nd at low rpm & speed. I called them after a week to see if they evaluated it. They said it was done and just shipped out. "What" I said. I thought we were going to discuss it. "We did" he said. "In your note". We gave you a 205-S grind and resurfaced the lifters. It was reasonable $ and I slapped it in. The difference was quite noticeable. More pull at low rpm. It's been in a few years and how it's holding up I just don't know. The last time I had the valve cover off the valves needed no adjusting and the push rods were still rotating on their own. But I guess time will tell. For me and for the price it was a good move.
The same process/geometry would apply to regrinding a worn cam to stock. Mine was worn beyond spec and they said they had to see it to evaluate if it could be saved. I sent the cam, lifters and a note describing the engine and use. I told them the F.5 was de-smogged with a new Weber 32/36 and I drove with too big of tires for my gearing and only drove around in the swamp mud in mostly 1st sometimes 2nd at low rpm & speed. I called them after a week to see if they evaluated it. They said it was done and just shipped out. "What" I said. I thought we were going to discuss it. "We did" he said. "In your note". We gave you a 205-S grind and resurfaced the lifters. It was reasonable $ and I slapped it in. The difference was quite noticeable. More pull at low rpm. It's been in a few years and how it's holding up I just don't know. The last time I had the valve cover off the valves needed no adjusting and the push rods were still rotating on their own. But I guess time will tell. For me and for the price it was a good move.
PabloCruise
SILVER Star
The same process/geometry would apply to regrinding a worn cam to stock. Mine was worn beyond spec and they said they had to see it to evaluate if it could be saved. I sent the cam, lifters and a note describing the engine and use. I told them the F.5 was de-smogged with a new Weber 32/36 and I drove with too big of tires for my gearing and only drove around in the swamp mud in mostly 1st sometimes 2nd at low rpm & speed. I called them after a week to see if they evaluated it. They said it was done and just shipped out. "What" I said. I thought we were going to discuss it. "We did" he said. "In your note". We gave you a 205-S grind and resurfaced the lifters. It was reasonable $ and I slapped it in. The difference was quite noticeable. More pull at low rpm. It's been in a few years and how it's holding up I just don't know. The last time I had the valve cover off the valves needed no adjusting and the push rods were still rotating on their own. But I guess time will tell. For me and for the price it was a good move.
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205-S? Or 250-S?
How are you liking it after a few years?
205-S? Or 250-S?
Sorry, 250-S
How are you liking it after a few years?
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Well.... I loved it for some years with the Weber 32/36 for the way I use it in the swamp. The low end grunt helped make up for me being over geared with the 39.5 x 15 Swampers. It still did good when I went to a Trollhole carb and then onto the Sniper. But, I now have a problem which I'm about to explain in a thread I'll be posting real soon. I'll title it "Cam & Lifter Woes.
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PabloCruise
SILVER Star
Well.... I loved it for some years with the Weber 32/36 for the way I use it in the swamp. The low end grunt helped make up for me being over geared with the 39.5 x 15 Swampers. It still did good when I went to a Trollhole carb and then onto the Sniper. But, I now have a problem which I'm about to explain in a thread I'll be posting real soon. I'll title it "Cam & Lifter Woes.
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I look forward to reading your latest updates.
I am thinking about sending Delta my cam and lifters. I think I have issues with my current cam/lifters.
