2F RV Cam and Valve Noise - HELP! (1 Viewer)

[ColonelMustardFJ40]

This is my first posting, but I read this stuff frequently and there are people in this group that really know what they are talking about! So, I am looking for help/advise with a situation I am currently experiencing with my 1976 2F engine. I just replaced the stock cam shaft with a new/reground Man-A-Fre RV grind, new lifters, springs and a valve job. The valve job replaced all of the valves, seats and guides. I set the valves cold, broke the cam shaft in (2000 rpm for 15 min) and then reset the valves with the engine hot. Originally Man-A-Fre stated the valves should be adjusted to Clearance INT .014" EXH .016" (based upon their website). To say the least - There is a LOT of valve noise. Next they recommended INT .012" EXH .014" - still LOTS of noise. Finally they said to set them to stock settings INT .008" EXH .014". Better, but still more noise than stock. I have tried two methods for adjustment: first - TDC on 1 and 6 and then each cylinder at TDC. I have a lot of experience adjusting these valves, so I am pretty sure I am doing this correctly, based upon the info I have from Man-A-Fre. The second method found additional clearance. I also seem to not have the top end power as with the stock cam.

Does anyone have any experience with this camshaft? Is the noise expected? I hate reground cams!

Humbly requesting help - Barry

 

[pappy]

I have tried two methods for adjustment: first - TDC on 1 and 6 and then each cylinder at TDC.

What do you mean by this? All you need to do is set your timing mark at TDC. There will be 3 exhaust valves and three intake valves you will adjust. Rotate the crank 360* until you are again at TDC and adjust the remaining 6 valves. You might want to invest in a Factory Service Manual from Toyota. They are the Bible of LC repair and well worth the investment. You might consider adjusting to intake@.007" and exhaust@.012" if the valves are too noisy at the factory spec. Also, do this with the engine warm.

Oh, and where are my manners ... Welcome to MUD,

 

[ColonelMustardFJ40]

Thanks for the welcome Pappy. I appreciate the response. I have used both of these methods to adjust valves. The first is a convenient way to adjust all the valves in the two positions TDC #1 and TDC #6. This method assumes that all of the lifters for the valves to be adjusted are sitting on the minimum circle of the associated cam lobe. However, with a reground cam, the diameter of the minimum circle on the lobes are significantly smaller and therefore some of the lifters may not be sitting at the minimum circle on all of the lobes. Based upon this situation, you can adjust each pair of valves of a given cylinder when that cylinder is at TDC on the compression stroke. Under these conditions it is guaranteed that the lifters are on the minimum circle for that cylinder. Takes longer and the engine can cool off some during adjustment.

 

[ColonelMustardFJ40]

BTW I do have a set of manuals.

 

[Pighead]

I've got one of those RV cams. I don't notice any more lifter noise than stock....do you have the stock valve springs? and, do you have any shims under your valve springs?

 

[ColonelMustardFJ40]

Thanks Pighead. Feel strange calling some one by that name, don't want to insult you, ya know. The springs are new replacements that Man-A-Fre recommended, purchased from them with the cam. No shims were required based upon what the machine shop measured. They also checked for coil bind wrt the lift of the cam 0.280 and the rocker ratio of 1.5. Today I am going to run the engine with the valve cover off and listen to see where the noise is coming from. Before the cam change it was much quieter than now. Also there is plenty of oil in the valve train.

Lived in Sacramento back in the early 70's. Was a nice place.

 

[ColonelMustardFJ40]

Pighead - What are you setting your valve clearances to?

 

[Pighead]

Pighead - What are you setting your valve clearances to?

.012 & .014...
Oh, if you run the engine with the valve cover off make sure to park on level ground. If the rig is tilted to the driver side, oil will run onto the headers and will ignite. Ask me how I know.

 

[FJforty]

Do a search on valve adjustment. There is an approach that is used with the engine running. This should rule out the TDC and cam lobe position issues.

 

[ColonelMustardFJ40]

Update to my noisy valve train. I have adjusted the valves and it sounds great. Within 200 miles it is noisy again. Check the clearances and they are loose by several thousandths. Readjusted again, same results. I think the clearance is on the pushrod side of the valve train. My concern is that the cam is going flat.

Anyone else out there experience anything like this?

 

[BigRedFJ40]

I just rebuilt my 2F with the same cam. I experienced the exact same problem as you with the noise. I tried to adjust the valves over and over..... noise wouldn't go away.

I just pulled the motor because it died while trying to figure out the problem..... when I dropped the oilpan, all bearings were good except for the #4 main...... I am going to tear the block down this weekend and see just what the hell happend

 

[Pighead]

Anyone else out there experience anything like this?

No. Well, maybe. I just figured it was break-in and didn't get too upset about a few thousandths. I retorqued the head a few times more than necessary that first year and my rocker was off & on a lot too, so I paid it no mind.
Your's is probably normal too. Relax.

 

[RLMS]

Solid lifter cams are in need of Zinc, a product that is NO longer in conventional oil due to the EPA. Now, You can run 15w40 rotella< diesel oil> but, Ams oil, will work! I have had 1 race motor go down with a flat cam! So I went to my machine shop guy, and said WTF!!! I am Running Rotella in all of my cruiser motors with no problems for 2 years!

I searched for awhile and found that Joe Gibbs oil is tha best< highest Zinc Content> out in the market, However Its $$$$

I hope thats not the case on yours, Good luck!

I hope this helps!


Justin

 

[BDelling]

My engine rebuilder recommend rottella diesel oil AND the ZDDP additive - said it was manditory. He said the rotella had more zinc, but not enough. Search on zinc here and on the web and lots comes up on this. The ZDDP is $9.00 - $10.00 a bottle, but I figure it's cheap insurance.

 

[ColonelMustardFJ40]

Guys - I pulled the Man-A-Fre RV cam and the lifters were wasted. Half of them were worn to the point that all of the bevel/camfer on the lifter face was gone! My machinist said that the cam was toast as well. Man-A-Fre said it was likely my fault but they would sell me another cam and lifters at cost. Installed the second set and was extremely careful in applying the cam lube, high quality conventional oil with the breaking additive. Very careful about the breakin procedure. Changed the breaking oil after the 20 minute breakin again with conventional oil (Valvoline 15w-50) and added more ZDDP breaking additive. Adjusted the valves to 0.012 and 0.014 (IN EX). All seemed well for about 1000 miles valves become slightly noisy so I thought today I would adjust them. Just as I was driving out my driveway the engine died. No fuel. Checked all the lines and the fuel pump (which was a new OEM at the rebuild ~2000 miles ago). No fuel out of the pump. Removed the pump, connected a hose into fuel and hand actuated the pump. Shot fuel out. Compared this new pump with the original pump and the actuator arms are the same. Looks like the fuel pump lobe on the Man-A-Fre RV cam is flat and seeing as though the valves were getting noisy, it is likely the lifters/cam is doing this again!

 

[FJforty]

If you were here I would sure be buying you a beer. I wonder whats up? What is the history on the head, is there a chance someone put on the wrong valve springs? Are the rockers getting good oil?
On the ZDDP, for this kind of issue use what ever you like but I was told not to use it if you are trying to seat new rings.

 

[numby]

The zinc thing gets a lot of talk in the muscle car forums. Seems to be a requirement for high-lift cam life.

You'll want a basic non-detergent 30 wt. for engine break-in.

 

[ColonelMustardFJ40]

I indulged in a few beers yesterday. Severely disappointed I must say! The valve springs, cam and lifters were all bought as a kit from Man-A-Fre as recommended. The cams were new billets, ground to the RV profile. Checked oil to the rockers before starting the engine. I have built several engines and I have never had this problem before. I even reviewed the picture of my engine assembly to make sure the connecting rods oil holes were pointing towards the cam. Here are some pictures. The one of the lifters some what the first set looked like. As you can see one lifter is destroyed.

 

[Shawn Russell]

Lets see the cam lobe(s) please...

Shawn

 

[ColonelMustardFJ40]

Shawn, Thanks for your interest. Sorry for the delay, but we have been on vacation - All4Fun in Silverton, CO. Here are pictures of some cam lobes. I check the valve clearances after about 700 miles with the latest cam/lifter set and they were loose. I am going to check the valve clearance again this weekend (another 500 miles) and if the clearance in increasing I am going to pull the cam and lifters again and contact Man-A-Fre for a discussion. The valves appears to be getting noisy again.