Builds 1985 FJ60 Gets a Holley Sniper EFI Setup (1 Viewer)

[FJ60Cam]

Some questions. Why the DUI?. What is it you gain other than it is new. Back when GM used HEI, they were quite unreliable.

I've got my 60 just waiting for me to resurrect the old girl. Can you tell me why a Sniper and not a 2FE? I would think the 2FE solution would be a better setup. But then again, I am no expert.

Has anyone dynoed a Sniper setup?

The DUIs seem pretty reliable. They are definitely a better build quality than the cheaper generic HEI units. The factory distributors are nice and high quality, but getting harder to find.

The Sniper & 2FE are apples/oranges.

The Sniper is basically an electronic carburetor, and only requires four wire connections. It bolts on the factory intake.

The 2FE requires swapping the entire head, intake, and exhaust from a 3FE, and a lot of wiring. The 3FE is a smaller displacement motor with a smaller combustion chamber, so you’ll end up with around a 9.5:1 compression ratio, which is why they are so powerful.

The direct injection of the 3FE is a superior form of fuel injection, but it is about 10x the work and likely more expensive, even if your time is free.

For less work and a simpler system, you could just pull the 2F head, mill it for higher compression, and bolt it back on with the Sniper and end up at about the same place.

 

[Cruzerman]

Thanks for the explanation . It is exactly what I thought.

For me, I really like the factory dizzy. Second to none on water resistance and reliability. I would rather run one of those, although it is good to hear the DUI is a quality unit. I remember when people use to mod GM HEI units for the 2F, which had mixed results at best.

The sniper also sounds like a good solution. However, while the 2FE is more work, I think it would produce better end results for a similar price point. But the sniper looks great as a simple bolt on carb replacement.

 

[wngrog]

There is no way I would mess with all the stuff needed to install a antiquated 3F injection onto a 2F with the availability of the Sniper.

Maybe if only the TBI based units were the only thing on the market but the Sniper is a game changer

 

[Cruzerman]

The Sniper is a TBI, is it not? I'm not a fuel injection or engine guru, but isn't the sniper basically an electronically controlled carb? And you are putting it on a manifold that isn't ideal for a fuel injection system? The 3FE is a true fuel injection system with injectors, fuel rail, etc. I think all the parts for the 3FE system are available either new, rebuilt, or used.

I'm not saying that the sniper is a bad solution. Quite the opposite. Sounds like a great solution. I'm just saying that the 3FE has a better fuel injection system than the sniper. Would I just slap on a fuel injection system off a 3FE with 300K miles on it? Nope. But with new / reman injectors on a rebuilt head along with other new bits, you bet.

 

[wngrog]

It is a TBI yes but it’s a system that learns and changes. Sure you can change the old 4.3 Chevy TBi computers from the base settings but no one does that.

Again. Apples to Oranges. The average back yard mechanic can have a Sniper up and running with basic skills in an afternoon.

Adding a 3F injection to a 2F is awesome but not easy.

 

[FJ60Cam]

The Sniper is a TBI style, but not a GM TBI. I say it is an electronic carb only because it is one self-contained unit, like a carb. That is where the similarities end. The 2F intake is as ideal for fuel injection as it is for a carb.

The GM has two injectors, one per throttle bore, spraying directly into the airstream.

The Sniper also has two injectors, one per throttle bore (on the two barrel), but instead of spraying directly into the airstream, each barrel has 16 holes to distribute the atomized fuel. It’s like having 32 tiny injectors to saturate the airstream.

Since all of the incoming air has to pass through theses throttle bores, the fuel is pretty evenly distributed throughout the airstream, so when each cylinder takes a big gulp of air, you can be pretty sure that each cylinder is getting the same air/fuel mixture.

Just like cellular phones and computers have improved in function since 1988, so have the computers in fuel injection systems. Now they are so powerful that something the size of a carburetor can be a fully contained fuel injection system.

The 2FE is great, especially if you want a system that is 100% Toyota, but is still 10x the work, and 10x the complexity, and not any cheaper by the time you replace or rebuild the 30 year old parts.

I’ll still contend that any actual increase in performance of the 2FE comes from the ginormous increase in compression ratio over having more injectors.

 

[Cruzerman]

I totally understand and agree with all that has been said. It really does looks like a great system. So good to see an off-the-shelf solution that works well on these tractor motors.

When I finally get around to resurrecting my 60, I'm going to do an engine rebuild so for me a 2FE makes more sense. If that wasn't the case, the afternoon bolt on of the sniper is very appealing.

When all said and done with the sniper, what is the final cost? I saw some prices on Summit, but wasn't sure all the bits and pieces needed. While it seems like a great product, it didn't seem cheap. But then again, what is?

 

[wngrog]

I’d say you could get away with doing a Sniper for $1300 all in. I probably have closer to $1800 in both mine as I used a $300 Fuel Pump and adapted my stock air cleaner and other items that ran the price up

 

[Dustin Messina]

Some questions. Why the DUI?. What is it you gain other than it is new. Back when GM used HEI, they were quite unreliable.

I've got my 60 just waiting for me to resurrect the old girl. Can you tell me why a Sniper and not a 2FE? I would think the 2FE solution would be a better setup. But then again, I am no expert.

Has anyone dynoed a Sniper setup?

I think for me it was the ease of the swap with the sniper. It’s basically 4 wires for fuel injection and not a lot of extra crap to run. No dyno here..it’s still a 2f with a sniper or a 2fe. It’s more about consistency for me versus power. As far as the DUI I was late to the game. I liked cleaning up the engine bay a little getting rid of the ignited (a part to possibly go out). It ran great before DUI and after. Also with Sniper you get full support of Holley and anything they may RD in future. People use this setup in everything, it’s not like too many people are building new 2fe stuff these days. So every year goes by OEM stuff is harder to source. Just my thoughts.

 

[Dustin Messina]

Took the 60 down to Toyota of Brookhaven this weekend for Cruisers and Coffee. Great event by @s0me0ldt0ys and crew! Pulled the 416 for the first time with the 60 and it was perfect. Trailer got some 235/85 ko2s while it was there.

 

[Dustin Messina]

I did get a little work in today by adding a set of KC Day-lighter LEDs to the front bumper. @JTU installed a set on his rig and they looked right, so I pulled the trigger too! I must say they do fit the 60 well. I may be crazy, but my favorite part of this install is the fact that I sourced an OEM fog switch from @ToyotaMatt

.....Also there is a rear full float OEM 60 axle getting built out by @orangefj45 and crew with a Harrop Elocker that will be finding its way into this rig! More to come....

 

[ToyotaMatt]

Dustin ,

The OEM AMBER GLOBE Push Button Fog Switch is Truly a Unicorn part on your truck

It looks AWSOME and well placed with both a factory fit and finish !

when u have time , lets see it illuminate after dark ...........


Good SHOW !

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[JTU]

@ToyotaMatt you got any more of those switches available?

 

[ToyotaMatt]

@ToyotaMatt you got any more of those switches available?

unfortunately not ,

that remains a once in a lifetime Unicorn part for myself and @Dustin Messina ................

 

[Dustin Messina]

@ToyotaMatt this is the best I could get with the iPhone....

 

[Dustin Messina]

Doing a little Cruiser Crawl prep today and installed two pretty hard to find parts. Thanks to @mattressking for sourcing me an OEM hose for my air box setup. Just need to grab some new clamps. Then @FJ60Cam came through with a hard to find reman Denso 55 amp 60 alternator that looks like an NOS part! I also took the time to repaint my wheels. Oem black holds up like crap. I suggest powder coating before you ever install tires. @wct49 got me squared away with an alignment first thing this AM as well!
Oh, and then I got my AC blowing cold again by retro fitting and converting over to 134 finally. I was blowing freeze 12, but thanks to a lose valve on my high side port it leaked out... however, we are chillin once again.

 

[Dustin Messina]

Part numbers for anybody looking.

 

[ToyotaMatt]

@FJ60Cam is the Man !

That 27020-61071-84 Factory NipponDenso Made in JAPAN Reman is a SOLID UNIT Design !

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[Dustin Messina]

Dropped @wngrog some parts today and then went and took a ride on the Natchez Trace. Got back in time to get some Crawl prep going.

 

[Seth S]

This seems like as good a thread as any to ask this question. I see on the Holley site they now have small and large bore units that look like they might be very close to the stock size and shape of the original carb. Looking at the application list I see some old school V8's on there that I imagine have similar characteristics to the 4.2 inline 6.

I suspect a call to Holley is in order but curious on the converts here?