Builds Welcome home Matilda - faded like your favorite pair of jeans (1 Viewer)

[CruiserTrash]

Let’s just scrap the 2F stuff and go grab this LS:

LS 5.3L ~ 4L60E 2wd 103k miles Complete with harness and computer plus fuse bloc - auto parts - by owner - vehicle...

LS 5.3L ~ 4L60E 2wd 103k miles Complete with harness and computer plus fuse block all sensors and accessories included Fits 99 through 2007 perfect for LS swap 45 day warranty Delivery available

denver.craigslist.org

Just kidding! What a joke of a machine shop, really sorry they screwed you over like that. Hope the new one can get you back in business.

You know I’m morally opposed to this right? seriously though, I’m about to throw in the towel and ride this current motor until it dies. And remember, this motor came to me with 2qts of oil and nearly spun rod bearings. They’re all still in there.

@RevISK This motor is turning into your transmission.

 

[BurntToast]

Let’s just scrap the 2F stuff and go grab this LS:

LS 5.3L ~ 4L60E 2wd 103k miles Complete with harness and computer plus fuse bloc - auto parts - by owner - vehicle...

LS 5.3L ~ 4L60E 2wd 103k miles Complete with harness and computer plus fuse block all sensors and accessories included Fits 99 through 2007 perfect for LS swap 45 day warranty Delivery available

denver.craigslist.org

Just kidding! What a joke of a machine shop, really sorry they screwed you over like that. Hope the new one can get you back in business.

Sucks but this will be the final solution for a significant portion of these old trucks. It’s nice to just know it’s going to work, even if it’s Toyota sacrilegious

 

[RevISK]

This motor is turning into your transmission

Good god Jim! Watch your language.

 

[DrRock]

(Mud seems to be having issues posting photos. I'll do that later.)

More engine rebuild drama…

I found a different shop to install the cam bearings properly and they did a great job. I thought I was home free to build the engine so I spent a couple weekends cleaning and organizing my shop for the task.

Yesterday I went to install the crank … the first machine shop (who screwed up the cam bearings twice) never took the main bearings out of the package and didn’t accommodate for the increased thrust clearance of #3 on the set of undersized bearings. Crank wouldn’t fit because the thrust surface of #3 was too wide. F#*%!!! I think when Toyota originally assembled these engines #3 main bearing was flat and the thrust washers were a set of separate half-moon pieces. Now you can only get bearings where #3 is saddle shaped, incorporating the flat bearing surface and the thrust washers into one piece. And if you get undersize bearings, they come with thicker/wider thrust surfaces.

After that failure, I pulled the #3 bearing out and plastigauged 1, 2, and 4. Not great.

Spec = .020-.044
1: .051
2: .049
4: .063

These are approximate numbers, just using the stuff printed on the plastigauge paper and approximating the value if it's between two. Probably fine, probably typical for an engine with some miles. But on a new motor I paid a machine shop thousands of dollars to "do it right"? Nah. Like I've said before, my math is that I'm not willing to bet all the money I have in this project on a "it'll probably be fine" kind of feeling. I didn't even check the rod bearing oil clearances, I was too heartbroken at that point in the day.

Tomorrow I'm going to pack everything up. Everything. Block, pistons, crank, cam, every single bearing, all of it. It's all going to this new machine shop I found. I'm going to have them inspect it all and give me a price estimate for what needs fixed. At minimum I think the crank journals will have to be ground down to the next undersize and will require a new set of bearings.

Oh, and the bad machine shop rebuilt a 61040 head for me about three years ago. It was originally destined for the Tomato truck, but when I acquired Matilda I thought I'll eventually rebuild a block and use this rebuilt head to make a whole new motor. It's been sitting on a shelf and now I'm wondering how messed up that might be. May as well have it inspected. I had that head rebuilt to stock - bottom got machined only for flatness taking off as little meat as possible. Manifold surface was made flat. Only about 4-5 valves were replaced, seats were only replaced as necessary. All the seats then got cut. Since the block was bored +1.00mm over and the cam is an RV grind, I'm wondering if I should just have the head redone with the larger Chevy valves and do a little light DIY port matching - get it to breath better and accommodate the "improvements" on the bottom end. Race tractor? I don't think it would hurt reliability. I wouldn't be trying to push the limits of a 2F ... more like as long as I'm spending the money anyway, may as well.

I don't know. Somebody give me some advice. I'm pulling my hair out about this.

Hey Jim, sorry to hear of your woes. On the topic of heads, I went with the Chevy valves and am quite happy with the results. The engine definitely breathes better and has more freedom to rev from 2800-3500rpm. I also went with the largest Toyota pistons available yielding 4.4 Liters of displacement. Seemed to be a no brainer to increase the valve size in order to accommodate the larger displacement. Hoping the findings from the new shop are minimal and that you can get this sorted quickly!

 

[CruiserTrash]

Sucks but this will be the final solution for a significant portion of these old trucks. It’s nice to just know it’s going to work, even if it’s Toyota sacrilegious

There’s definitely an east button factor in chucking an LS in there. But most of the affordable LSs are probably in need of a rebuild just as much as an old 2F. I’m just amazed a machine shop can’t get a tractor motor right. There aren’t very many critical dimensions they have to hit, and so far I’ve found that they screwed up two of them. What else lies in store for me?

@DrRock as long as Imm spending the money … guess I may as well redo the head too. I’m the second from biggest sized pistons (95mm). With the RV cam, the head should really be made to breath better.

Working a deal on getting more air flow out of some other parts too. Being purposefully vague on purpose … details to follow.

 

[CruiserTrash]

Nope. That ain’t gonna do it.

 

[Skniper]

View attachment 3856879View attachment 3856880

Nope. That ain’t gonna do it.

Just torque 'er down...it'll go!

 

[CruiserTrash]

Just torque 'er down...it'll go!

The old self-clearancing cam bearing trick!

 

[Rockymtnreaper]

As cool as an LS swap is, it comes with its own headaches. I did my time and now its running great. But I loved my rebuilt 2F. My advice is to keep moving forward. But damn it hurts!

 

[CruiserTrash]

As cool as an LS swap is, it comes with its own headaches. I did my time and now its running great. But I loved my rebuilt 2F. My advice is to keep moving forward. But damn it hurts!

I couldn't believe when you ripped out that rebuilt 2F for your LS ... but I totally get it. You went from nice truck -> nice truck, just a different flavor. If you're back in CO this year, hit us up.

 

[Rockymtnreaper]

I couldn't believe when you ripped out that rebuilt 2F for your LS ... but I totally get it. You went from nice truck -> nice truck, just a different flavor. If you're back in CO this year, hit us up.

I thought I was answering all my problems with the motor swap. Highway speeds, better adjustment with elevation change, parts everywhere. But I probably should of just kept the 2F and rocked a daily... Which is funny because I daily a Tacoma now.

I'll be back this summer! See you soon!

 

[BurntToast]

I thought I was answering all my problems with the motor swap. Highway speeds, better adjustment with elevation change, parts everywhere. But I probably should of just kept the 2F and rocked a daily... Which is funny because I daily a Tacoma now.

I'll be back this summer! See you soon!

Funny enough, I finished my LS swap and now daily the 62, don't drive my F150 anymore.

Anyway sorry for the hijack

 

[CruiserTrash]

Funny enough, I finished my LS swap and now daily the 62, don't drive my F150 anymore.

Anyway sorry for the hijack

Hijacks are always welcome here my friend.

 

[yotadude520]

I'll keep the hi-jack going, my LS swapped 60 is my daily driver since the only other vehicle I own is an old Ford that is even less practical...

And I don't plan on changing that, I love driving it with the LS power!

 

[CruiserTrash]

I'll keep the hi-jack going, my LS swapped 60 is my daily driver since the only other vehicle I own is an old Ford that is even less practical...

And I don't plan on changing that, I love driving it with the LS power!

Don't get your Chevy all over my build thread!

Just kidding, all are welcome here.

 

[CruiserTrash]

Here's what I was being vague about before. I didn't want to post it until the deal was finalized.

Picked up a 3F motor with a cracked head from the classifieds. I don't need the 3F motor itself and I'm still figuring out where to rehome it ... but I'm getting the manifold set and 3F (non-smog) carb. I've been specifically chasing this exhaust manifold for a few years now. They can be found in the Middle East and Australia, but I always missed my chance. Everything kind of lined up for me on this. I think it's the most beautiful piece of cast iron Toyota ever made and both manifolds should flow a little better than the stock 2F logs. Combined with the RV cam I'm putting in the new motor, there should be some better breathing without having to go to the Chevy valves (here I am Chevying up my own thread). From what I've gathered here on Mud it should bolt right up to the 2F head - I'm willing to take a chance to find out. I realize this set has wants to see some more bolts than the 2F, but it should tighten the gasket down fine without those. And heck, maybe I have a spare head drilled and tapped for the extra holes if there isn't a water jacket behind. I don't know yet. If nothing else the carb will be good to have for between smog tests.

The exhaust manifold also has an EGR port, so I might be able to leave it on for smog tests if I can fab up a pipe that goes from the different flange location to the EGR cooler. It looks like the smogged 2F EGR/PCV combo input should bolt on to the front of the intake too - the holes in the photo (for the PCV-only input) should match up. If they don't I'll cross that bridge later.

Anybody know if the 3F block is the same as the 3FE block? Might be easier to get this into somebody's hands who has a blown motor in a US FJ62. Not sure if the thermostat housing and water pump are the same either - this 3F has fairly new of both. The oil cooler and bracket look clean and identical to a 2F as well. Too bad I just bought a brand new oil cooler from City Racer. Not sure what else crosses over - timing cover, timing gears? Is the crank a match to a 3FE? I know a 3FE cam is just a 5* advanced 2F cam, but which one was in the 3F? I bet that crosses over.

Thanks to the Texas homies @crtx for providing logistics and @HemiAlex for housing the motor until we figure out where it's going ... and for the constant encouragment to embark in sketchy/insane/dumb acquisitions like this.

 

[HemiAlex]

I support broad spectrum autistic vehicle decisions. (This is me daily)

 

[CruiserTrash]

I was at the shop measuring rod bearing oil clearances today. I wanted to know the full story on the crank before calling the only crank grinding shop in town … who, I’m pretty certain, probably did my crank on a subcontract basis for the bad machine shop that did the rest of the work for me.

0.020-0.060 is the FSM target, and they’re all around 0.050. Barely in spec … but in spec. How that affects overall oil pressure, I don’t know.

While I was there I picked the 2nd set of cam bearings off the shelf of shameful parts and thought I’d show them all to you. Remember these were the second brand new bearings in a row that got installed poorly. I’ve now got a third set of brand new ones that were installed beautifully by a new machine shop I’ll use going forward.

When I picked up the block after these had been installed - last year at this point - I noticed this crap immediately while still in the parking lot. I asked the shop owner what was up with it and he played it off: “Oh we had to line bore them because of how misaligned the holes in the block were blah blah blah. They’re totally fine, just put your cam in and go.” The new machine shop put the 3rd new bearings in and didn’t have to touch them. The cam goes in perfectly and spins butter smooth. No idea how the previous shop could get it so wrong.

This is why I don’t even want to go back to that shop to rectify the crank oil and thrust clearances. I really think I’ll be wasting my time. But I’m also sick of throwing money at this thing. How many do-overs do I have to pay for out of my own pocket? I guess I know the answer … all of them. Live and learn. @POTATO LAUNCHER had the best advice - I just gotta push through.

 

[yotadude520]

I was at the shop measuring rod bearing oil clearances today. I wanted to know the full story on the crank before calling the only crank grinding shop in town … who, I’m pretty certain, probably did my crank on a subcontract basis for the bad machine shop that did the rest of the work for me.

View attachment 3860226

0.020-0.060 is the FSM target, and they’re all around 0.050. Barely in spec … but in spec. How that affects overall oil pressure, I don’t know.

While I was there I picked the 2nd set of cam bearings off the shelf of shameful parts and thought I’d show them all to you. Remember these were the second brand new bearings in a row that got installed poorly. I’ve now got a third set of brand new ones that were installed beautifully by a new machine shop I’ll use going forward.

View attachment 3860232
View attachment 3860233
View attachment 3860234

When I picked up the block after these had been installed - last year at this point - I noticed this crap immediately while still in the parking lot. I asked the shop owner what was up with it and he played it off: “Oh we had to line bore them because of how misaligned the holes in the block were blah blah blah. They’re totally fine, just put your cam in and go.” The new machine shop put the 3rd new bearings in and didn’t have to touch them. The cam goes in perfectly and spins butter smooth. No idea how the previous shop could get it so wrong.

This is why I don’t even want to go back to that shop to rectify the crank oil and thrust clearances. I really think I’ll be wasting my time. But I’m also sick of throwing money at this thing. How many do-overs do I have to pay for out of my own pocket? I guess I know the answer … all of them. Live and learn. @POTATO LAUNCHER had the best advice - I just gotta push through.

I'd be real tempted to go in and ask for some kind of refund from that machine shop, even though they'll probably just tell you to go pound sand.

These 60's really know how to make you feel like you're chasing your own tail sometimes. Keep on with it, it'll be right eventually!

 

[CruiserTrash]

@yotadude520 I checked my receipt last night. $280 for the crank and $225 for the cam bearing R&R. Over $500 blown.

What I don't want to happen is what happens in a restaurant when you send your food back - they might spit in it. So the original machine shop agrees to take the crank back and redo it. Do they do sloppy rushed work because it's not a paying job? Clearly they don't care about protecting their reputation, so they don't really have an impetus to do a good job. They also farmed the crank work out and I'm sure marked it up - which is fine, that's business. If I go straight to the crank shop (I have their name & phone number at this point) does it eliminate any miscommunication, get me a better result, and come in cheaper without a markup? Sure I'm still paying out of pocket. But it also seems like the shortest and straightest path to the end goal.