Timing Cover Gasket pushing out, help please. (1 Viewer)

[krispy]

Hi All, I recognize there are many threads about this, but none that I've found seem to answer enough. I'm in the process of putting my motor back together, and when torquing the timing cover to what the service manual calls out, it pushed the gasket out. As other threads have suggested, I went through and flattened the timing cover metal flange, which was true with mine. It had been overtourqued in the past and bent the metal. With a very flat cover, I laid a thin layer of FIPG on both sides of the gasket. I let it set up for 30 mins then finger tightened it over the timing gear. I put the harmonic balancer on, then let the FIPG set up overnight. This afternoon I pulled the balancer back off and torqued the smaller bolts, in a back-and-forth pattern, to the min of what the manual calls for 53in-lbs and the larger to 12ft-lbs.

Most everything seemed okay except for the bottom right, one up from the larger bolts.

My question is, do they need to be tightened so tight? How much oil pressure is behind there, would a torque value similar to the side cover be enough? Or, is there something I'm
missing that would allow this gasket to stay put?

Picture of the whole thing, becasue im excited about it.

 

[ToyotaMatt]

Hi All, I recognize there are many threads about this, but none that I've found seem to answer enough. I'm in the process of putting my motor back together, and when torquing the timing cover to what the service manual calls out, it pushed the gasket out. As other threads have suggested, I went through and flattened the timing cover metal flange, which was true with mine. It had been overtourqued in the past and bent the metal. With a very flat cover, I laid a thin layer of FIPG on both sides of the gasket. I let it set up for 30 mins then finger tightened it over the timing gear. I put the harmonic balancer on, then let the FIPG set up overnight. This afternoon I pulled the balancer back off and torqued the smaller bolts, in a back-and-forth pattern, to the min of what the manual calls for 53in-lbs and the larger to 12ft-lbs.

View attachment 3527473

Most everything seemed okay except for the bottom right, one up from the larger bolts.

My question is, do they need to be tightened so tight? How much oil pressure is behind there, would a torque value similar to the side cover be enough? Or, is there something I'm
missing that would allow this gasket to stay put?

View attachment 3527467View attachment 3527468

Picture of the whole thing, becasue im excited about it.

View attachment 3527472

- did you stake the V-HEAD / giant flat head screw driver machine screws like the FSM states ?

- did you make sure to APPLY the black FIPG sealer to ALL the male bolts threads here as the FSM mentions too as well ?

- did you make sure to follow the thread LENGHT LOCATION chart location plan-a-gram in tghe FSM too ?


- all 3 topics above are super critical here

- i default on a SINGLE technical-method on the timing cover and side valve cover too !


- both sides Black FIPG just like you have done nicely too !

- using a common sense approach STAR-PATTERN , same as a wheel lug nuts , start to HAND tighten each of the 10mm hex and the larger 12mm hex head bolts , even keel here as key !

- when you see the cork start to PUSS out the outside edges simply , , STOP .......

- that is all , DONE



.

 

[krispy]

Hi Matt, thank you for the detailed response! Based on you're staemtns, I think there are some things im missing, i copied your statemtentis in italics and added a comment at the end here:

- did you stake the V-HEAD / giant flat head screw driver machine screws like the FSM states ? No, im not sure what this means, can you elaborate or point me at the figure in the FSM?

- did you make sure to APPLY the black FIPG sealer to ALL the male bolts threads here as the FSM mentions too as well ? I only applied liquid sealer to the two larger bolts. Not FIPG though, I used Permatex 59214 high temp thread sealer. Are there different versions of the FSM, maybe im using the wrong one? All i saw was this.

​

If i do apply FIPG to all, when in the process should i do that? When i finger tighten the bolts. Doesnt FIPG take time to set simillar to BLack RTV? Thats what ive been going off of, on the back of RTV it says to wait an min of an hour before torqueing?

- did you make sure to follow the thread LENGHT LOCATION chart location plan-a-gram in the FSM too ? I did this, though i only had two lengths. The longer two i put into "D", the rest got the shorter lenghts with the exception of the two bigger bolts at the bottom, "A".

I feel like this statement is key "- when you see the cork start to PUSS out the outside edges simply , , STOP ......." 53in-lbs seems to tight along that side.

Im going to pull it apat and try again, using your suggestions. Do you think i need a whole new gasket, or cani just apply a thin coat of FIPG and go at it again?

 

[ToyotaMatt]

Based on a few observations like your tall early valve cover , non-dented side cover , 2 groove only crank pulley and lack of a oil cooler I can lean in the direction of a early 1/75-12/78 circa era 2F

That being said never say never on a 2F and correct me if I am OFF here please ?

- I always roll like Billy the KID on a 2F , having a twin FSM,s going on , one in each hand here …

- the 1st gen. Gray one and 2nd gen. Tan one are so paramount for me to go at a specialty step by steps job scope like the cork timing cover gasket and a new crank shaft seal too ….!

- the short version here is SIMPLE TOYOTA ideals : the last update more modern revised anything…. part , Vehicle platform , and especially FSM,s publication # is so so set me up for success in my mindset and it’s a 2nd nature engrained habit I just walk to the office bookcase and grab both no question ..

I will show you below the WHY and it relates to the STAKED plate V-head Machine screws ..

I should have asked if you pulled the FLAT plate behind the timing gears or not ?

If I was not pulling plate , I would by nature examine the oil nozzle and all the staked V-HEAD machine screws too to see if any any and time movement had occurred ?

I have seen this occur many times and that in it self dictates the irk-some task of the plate gasket replacement too here ?

I was flowing on your thread here and it seemed to be an engine rebuild ? But clarify here please ?

The grey early 2F FSM 1st gen. Makes NO reference to staking the V-heads with a drift punch …

The tan 2nd gen. One does and also shows a step by step picture-gram of sorts too !

I have takin this example of coming to a Timing Cover gasket gun fight with an added Secert weapon and solid good example of another refinement up in clarity too !

This is a 1984 3F FSM , look at how TOYOTA really emphisizes the liquid sealer on bolts and staking the now updated TORX V-HEAD machine screws holding the flat timing cover plate too !

Note : not trying to confuse you here , only point out the newer more modern FSM,s are way better detailed and helpful in every way also ..

Having both 2F grey and Tan is an absolute , and job scope end product results show me this is the way …

Ok ..

On to your doing the job over a 2nd time ?

First review the photos here below before you pull that trigger ?

If you do you do , but if you take a moment and learn first the WHY here , then perhaps that is not necessary ?

I also posted a parts image of a small unique plating technology SEMS bolt , it’s a M6 and is ALL your side engine cover ones and also a majority of your timing cover ones too !

- there less then .99 cents each your local toyota dealer and a updated part en every sense of the term ….!

- using any gasket and or crank seal here so “ Totally-Taboo “ and a POOR Choice in every way ….you need to hear this in this way , so it’s professional stated as such well intended of course …

- as TOYOTA FSM ,s modernized over time they casually mentioned “ install a new gasket “. Later , a BLACK DIAMOND “ logo was incorporated and denotes a “ NON-Reusable Part “ … if you get told you can wing it on the re use of the cork timing cover gasket and crank seal ?….. walk away from that person. and revert to the toyota trusty FSM , it will set you up for success and that is all that matters here ….

 

[ToyotaMatt]

NOTE : I will show the 1984 3F engine FSM only in the last photos I post …

- first is the early grey and later TAN only …

-

 

[ToyotaMatt]

 

[ToyotaMatt]

3F modern update publication
1984 below …

 

[roadstr6]

The FSM torque values for the timing cover bolts don't seem to work well in areas where FIPG is used because the cork gasket spits out. If you didn't remove the backing plate, staking the countersunk slotted screw does not apply. It should be already staked. I, like you, replaced my timing cover gasket and it squished out a little in spots. When I noticed the squish, I stopped torquing the bolts and let it sit overnight to cure. Next day I put another quarter turn on each bolt just for safe measure. No leaks. Good to go.

It's up to you whether or not to leave what you've done as-is. If you decide to re-do the timing cover gasket, don't re-use it. Get another one.

 

[torfab]

Don't use FIPG on cork gaskets, it lubricates the gasket and it will spit out.

 

[krispy]

Thanks, Matt, for the detailed breakdown! You nailed it; it's out of a 78 model year. I did not pull the plate behind the timing cover. I pulled the engine and transmission out of my rig because it was leaking from so many places and had a mud/oil frosting over the bottom of everything. It took forever to clean off, and I didn't think I'd be able to fix everything to my satisfaction with the motor and transmission still in the vehicle.

If I was not pulling plate , I would by nature examine the oil nozzle and all the staked V-HEAD machine screws too to see if any any and time movement had occurred ? I will definitely examine that more closely when I pull the cover back off and redo everything.

I was flowing on your thread here and it seemed to be an engine rebuild ? But clarify here please ? Not a traditional full rebuild; I pulled it mostly to clean and regasket everything. However, i did take the head to a machine shop to get rebuilt. Also, I had never pulled a motor out and was excited to do it and then work on all the parts/pieces. It has been a great learning experience for me, and I've really enjoyed it all, too.

This is a 1984 3F FSM , look at how TOYOTA really emphisizes the liquid sealer on bolts and staking the now updated TORX V-HEAD machine screws holding the flat timing cover plate too ! I will definitely source one of these; as you've pointed out, it's way more informative, but also, the text and pictures are so much more legible! Both the versions, electronic and hard copy, that I have are the tan ones. I noticed one of yours shows the oil slinger, whereas mine does not. Im glad i tooke pictures during dissadembly since if I hadnt i would never have remebered where that thing went!

- using any gasket and or crank seal here so “ Totally-Taboo “ and a POOR Choice in every way ….you need to hear this in this way , so it’s professional stated as such well intended of course … Is there a particular brand you recommend. The seal and original gasket I sourced from Cruiser Corp and their full gasket kit, the second cork gasket for the timing cover, since the seal I put in seated well, was from Spectre off road.

I looked through all the photos you posted; thank you very much! But I didn't see: I also posted a parts image of a small unique plating technology SEMS bolt , it’s a M6 and is ALL your side engine cover ones and also a majority of your timing cover ones too ! The bolts I sourced and have been using came from overland metric

 

[charliemeyer007]

Aviation Permatex - never dries. Very thin coat on one side will hold cork gaskets in place so you can install and torque them in place. Most times you can reuse the gasket because it was only stuck on one side lightly.

If you have damaged mating surfaces and need gasket maker to help get a good seal - put the glue on both sides of the gasket, install and finger tight to hold the stuff in place. After the set time, then torque it to the proper spec's in proper sequence.