Builds The Architect's '77 FJ40

[Gun Runner 5]

Ga Architect....... "I hate oil drops on my basement floor!" ..........

It's fortunate you did not go the Series Land Rover route ..... All of mine "self lubricated" rather they were setting still or moving.
Good luck with your issue.

 

[Racer65]

A valve adjustment is an easy job in the truck. Just pull the valve cover and follow the directions in the FSM.

+1. I had this done by the Toyota dealership about 15 years ago when the truck was still relatively current. It's supposed to be a part of scheduled maintenance if I recall correctly.

 

[roma042987]

Are you sure that pump is discontinued? We got one from the dealer for tuckers 2f I guess less than 2yrs ago. I see you got that wide groove pulley finally for the ac compressor how's it working out for you? As far as oil leaks really doesn't surprise me. I'd put some dye in it then check it on a rack. The front could be oil pan or front timing cover or seal. The rear could be the pan or the rear oil galley plug or rear main. The oil pan gaskets really need sealant between the pan gasket and gasket rear main cap to seal up properly. That would be my first guess.

 

[Solace in Solitude]

What @roma042987 said... except my pan leaked front and back... it is VERY difficult to drop and reinstall my pan, due to my headers. The FSM says to "put sealant on the 'corners'". The third time, I put sealant on both the front and rear 'saddles' and 2-3" down each side, from each 'corner'. Didn't leak any more. Note: After I finally got it right, I read a post from @edwjmcgrath that said (paraphrasing), "I do almost all my own maintenance, but I have a Toyota Service mechanic replace oil pan gaskets". Having done this three times, just to get it right once, I couldn't agree more!

Adjusting the valves is part of regular maintenance and should be done at regular intervals. You may not need to adjust them, per se... but, they should, at least, be checked to be sure. The FSM has a procedure... but, it makes it sound like you should adjust them hot (operating temp), with the engine running. I found it impossible, for me, to adjust the valves properly with the engine running.

So, I get the engine up to operating temperature, remove the air cleaner, turn engine off momentarily, while I remove the rocker cover, re-start the engine running: Use a go-no-go feeler gauge to check the clearances, on all valves, while the engine is running, making a note of (on AdjList) any that need to be adjusted.

Note: It was difficult to find TDC and the BB, so I removed the flywheel inspection cover and painted the BB and TDC white... makes it easy to see for timing and valve adjustments.

Then, I turn the engine off, remove the plugs, use a socket on the alternator pulley nut, to rotate the crank (clockwise) until I'm at TDC under the timing mark cover, then adjust any valves (on my AdjList), that are in the first sequence of valves (fig 3.46)

I then rotate the crank (socket on Alternator pulley nut) clockwise 360* to TDC and adjust the remaining valves on my AdjList, that in the second sequence of valves(fig. 3-47).

This procedure works great for me... AND I asked @FJ40Jim about it once and his response was, surprisingly, the same as mine. "It's nearly impossible to do a decent valve adjustment with the engine running. Check the clearances with the engine running. Adjust the valves with the engine off".

 

[GA Architect]

Are you sure that pump is discontinued? We got one from the dealer for tuckers 2f I guess less than 2yrs ago. I see you got that wide groove pulley finally for the ac compressor how's it working out for you? As far as oil leaks really doesn't surprise me. I'd put some dye in it then check it on a rack. The front could be oil pan or front timing cover or seal. The rear could be the pan or the rear oil galley plug or rear main. The oil pan gaskets really need sealant between the pan gasket and gasket rear main cap to seal up properly. That would be my first guess.

Roma,
I was under the impression that the '77 water pump with out the oil cooler port was discontinued? Maybe I'm wrong on that? As for the wide grove pulley, during my engine install by ACC, I was told that the AC low pressure line at the compressor nipple was cross threaded. Thus a NEW compressor and NEW low pressure line...Lucky Me! And the hits keep on cumming. Note, I don't like the new low pressure line that was installed. It sticks up too high due to the 45 degree joint at the compressor. The original line had a 90 degree joint there, but that was the best they could do I guess. I have since had a new low pressure line made to replace it. Dang, AC lines are pricey.

Dye in the oil? Note sure of that. Unfortunate for me, I don't have a rack. I guess to my demise, I took it for granted that being new, I wouldn't have these issues. If the oil pan gasket is bad, I wonder if Toyota (Onur) would swap it out for a new one? Dang, the one that is installed has less than 200 miles on it. They aren't cheap.

As for diagnosing where the oil is coming from, I'm just a "Shady Tree Mechanic" with a couple of bananna skills. I'm just referencing what I see and where I'm wiping oil from. I need to do some more investigative work, that is for sure.

 

[GA Architect]

Are you sure that pump is discontinued? We got one from the dealer for tuckers 2f I guess less than 2yrs ago. I see you got that wide groove pulley finally for the ac compressor how's it working out for you? As far as oil leaks really doesn't surprise me. I'd put some dye in it then check it on a rack. The front could be oil pan or front timing cover or seal. The rear could be the pan or the rear oil galley plug or rear main. The oil pan gaskets really need sealant between the pan gasket and gasket rear main cap to seal up properly. That would be my first guess.

Roma - I forgot, a Sanden AC compressor can be ordered with a wider grove. ACC replaced the cross threaded nipple SD7H14 unit with a SD5H14 - #6681 with the C1 groove pulley. The wider belt seems to work better.

 

[Solace in Solitude]

What @roma042987 said... except my pan leaked front and back... it is VERY difficult to drop and reinstall my pan, due to my headers. The FSM says to "put sealant on the 'corners'". The third time, I put sealant on both the front and rear 'saddles' and 2-3" down each side, from each 'corner'. Didn't leak any more. Note: After I finally got it right, I read a post from @edwjmcgrath that said (paraphrasing), "I do almost all my own maintenance, but I have a Toyota Service mechanic replace oil pan gaskets". Having done this three times, just to get it right once, I couldn't agree more!

Adjusting the valves is part of regular maintenance and should be done at regular intervals. You may not need to adjust them, per se... but, they should, at least, be checked to be sure. The FSM has a procedure... but, it makes it sound like you should adjust them hot (operating temp), with the engine running. I found it impossible, for me, to adjust the valves properly with the engine running.

So, I get the engine up to operating temperature, remove the air cleaner, turn engine off momentarily, while I remove the rocker cover, re-start the engine running: Use a go-no-go feeler gauge to check the clearances, on all valves, while the engine is running, making a note of (on AdjList) any that need to be adjusted.

Note: It was difficult to find TDC and the BB, so I removed the flywheel inspection cover and painted the BB and TDC white... makes it easy to see for timing and valve adjustments.

Then, I turn the engine off, remove the plugs, use a socket on the alternator pulley nut, to rotate the crank (clockwise) until I'm at TDC under the timing mark cover, then adjust any valves (on my AdjList), that are in the first sequence of valves (fig 3.46)

I then rotate the crank (socket on Alternator pulley nut) clockwise 360* to TDC and adjust the remaining valves on my AdjList, that in the second sequence of valves(fig. 3-47).

This procedure works great for me... AND I asked @FJ40Jim about it once and his response was, surprisingly, the same as mine. "It's nearly impossible to do a decent valve adjustment with the engine running. Check the clearances with the engine running. Adjust the valves with the engine off".

I should have given credit.... but, I don't recall to whom... I 'borrowed' the pictures from another thread.

 

[GA Architect]

What @roma042987 said... except my pan leaked front and back... it is VERY difficult to drop and reinstall my pan, due to my headers. The FSM says to "put sealant on the 'corners'". The third time, I put sealant on both the front and rear 'saddles' and 2-3" down each side, from each 'corner'. Didn't leak any more. Note: After I finally got it right, I read a post from @edwjmcgrath that said (paraphrasing), "I do almost all my own maintenance, but I have a Toyota Service mechanic replace oil pan gaskets". Having done this three times, just to get it right once, I couldn't agree more!

I like that idea from McGrath. When I get the water pump replaced, I may take it to the Local Toyota Dealership and have them look at the oil leaks. If it needs a new oil pan gasket, due to being a tough job to do right, I'll let them do it. One thing can be said for my local dealership, with five vehicles purchased from them, they tend to go out of their way to help. As for going out of their way to help, here is just one instance. At one under warranty oil change in my Tacoma, they finished and I took it to work. The service bay mechanic didn't think they tighten the oil plug sufficiently. They called me, asked if I was going to be at my office for the next hour, and they came out and crawled under my truck just to verify it was tightened.....I was rather impressed they came to me, and didn't ask me to come back to them.

 

[Solace in Solitude]

That is impressive!!

I had an oil change done at a Toyota dealership in Bastrop, TX and noticed it leaking when I picked it up. I spoke with the manager and he had it redone. This time, I got about a block down the road and, when I stopped for breakfast, I looked underneath and saw it leaking again. I took it back and they redid it yet again.

When they brought it to me, I asked the manager if he checked it himself. He said, "no, my guy assured me it's good". I asked if it was the same "guy". He said, "yes... I'll pull it back in and check it myself". The plug was still loose.

I wrote a letter to the Service Director and never went back to that dealership.

 

[roma042987]

It's not difficult to do the pan correctly if you know ahead of time where to apply sealant. You can easily do it in the garage with no lift, heck a couple of those drive on ramps would make it easy. The most difficult part is actually cleaning the mating surfaces and removing the pan if it's stuck, yours should come off in one piece since it hasn't been on there long. Just get a few cans of brake cleaner to clean all the surfaces before you slap it back on. Try looking up a pump for mid 75 year fj40. It may have a different part number but it will fit.

 

[GA Architect]

It's not difficult to do the pan correctly if you know ahead of time where to apply sealant. You can easily do it in the garage with no lift, heck a couple of those drive on ramps would make it easy. The most difficult part is actually cleaning the mating surfaces and removing the pan if it's stuck, yours should come off in one piece since it hasn't been on there long. Just get a few cans of brake cleaner to clean all the surfaces before you slap it back on. Try looking up a pump for mid 75 year fj40. It may have a different part number but it will fit.

Wish I would have know about the mid 75 water pump before today....I prefer using OEM parts. However, the Airtex unit appears to be very similar to the Aisin. It looks like it doesn't have the bondo holding the radiator hose in-let piece like others do. At least it came recommended from a reputable source.

For the oil pan....paying for a warranty sometimes can be worth it. At least it will be peace of mind.

 

[Honger]

What @roma042987 said... except my pan leaked front and back... it is VERY difficult to drop and reinstall my pan, due to my headers. The FSM says to "put sealant on the 'corners'". The third time, I put sealant on both the front and rear 'saddles' and 2-3" down each side, from each 'corner'. Didn't leak any more. Note: After I finally got it right, I read a post from @edwjmcgrath that said (paraphrasing), "I do almost all my own maintenance, but I have a Toyota Service mechanic replace oil pan gaskets". Having done this three times, just to get it right once, I couldn't agree more!

Adjusting the valves is part of regular maintenance and should be done at regular intervals. You may not need to adjust them, per se... but, they should, at least, be checked to be sure. The FSM has a procedure... but, it makes it sound like you should adjust them hot (operating temp), with the engine running. I found it impossible, for me, to adjust the valves properly with the engine running.

So, I get the engine up to operating temperature, remove the air cleaner, turn engine off momentarily, while I remove the rocker cover, re-start the engine running: Use a go-no-go feeler gauge to check the clearances, on all valves, while the engine is running, making a note of (on AdjList) any that need to be adjusted.

Note: It was difficult to find TDC and the BB, so I removed the flywheel inspection cover and painted the BB and TDC white... makes it easy to see for timing and valve adjustments.

Then, I turn the engine off, remove the plugs, use a socket on the alternator pulley nut, to rotate the crank (clockwise) until I'm at TDC under the timing mark cover, then adjust any valves (on my AdjList), that are in the first sequence of valves (fig 3.46)

I then rotate the crank (socket on Alternator pulley nut) clockwise 360* to TDC and adjust the remaining valves on my AdjList, that in the second sequence of valves(fig. 3-47).

This procedure works great for me... AND I asked @FJ40Jim about it once and his response was, surprisingly, the same as mine. "It's nearly impossible to do a decent valve adjustment with the engine running. Check the clearances with the engine running. Adjust the valves with the engine off".

That is some great tech right there... I needed this walked through for me just like that. Thanks @pngunme!

Sorry to hear of your woes here GA... both on the waterpump and the pan gasket.

FWIW, my dad (who gets all the credit for giving me a love for the wrench) always said of oil pan gaskets that no matter how experienced you are sometimes a newly installed one just leaks and you have to redo it. I've only done two myself (on Honda Civics) and both took. But the first time my dad did one with me it was leaking within a week. We redid it and had no further problems. Maybe the RTV doesn't quite settle where it's supposed to... maybe the gaskets are just a bit mis-shapen... who knows. It just seems like an area that is prone to difficulty sometimes.

 

[Weber Sarge]

First , any engine builder worth his salt would not send out an engine that leaks oil - I tend not to forgive on that issue . I refuse to use RTV anytime it's associated with oil - use The Right Stuff from Permatex , it does not leak and woe to the next soul that tries to take the pan off if you use a lot . Small bead in the corners as said should do it . The waterpump could just be old and possibly no lube was put on the seal when it was built - I've taken apart several that had the seal half burnt and welded to the rotor shaft . That one depends on who sourced the part - if you provided the part it's your problem . If it was the machine shop , they may ask that the engine be brought in - minus the vehicle which is no fun . The pump isn't that hard to swap in-vehicle but it takes some work .

Sad to hear about '77 pump sources , mine is original and really should be replaced .

Sarge

 

[GA Architect]

First , any engine builder worth his salt would not send out an engine that leaks oil - I tend not to forgive on that issue . I refuse to use RTV anytime it's associated with oil - use The Right Stuff from Permatex , it does not leak and woe to the next soul that tries to take the pan off if you use a lot . Small bead in the corners as said should do it . The waterpump could just be old and possibly no lube was put on the seal when it was built - I've taken apart several that had the seal half burnt and welded to the rotor shaft . That one depends on who sourced the part - if you provided the part it's your problem . If it was the machine shop , they may ask that the engine be brought in - minus the vehicle which is no fun . The pump isn't that hard to swap in-vehicle but it takes some work .

Sad to hear about '77 pump sources , mine is original and really should be replaced .

Sarge

1. The small oil leak from day one..........speaks for itself. I've got a call into the builder this morning, so I'll see where that goes.

2. The antifreeze/coolant flush at 100 miles......I guess is on me, because I didn't specifically ask for a coolant flush with the new engine, new radiator, and new hoses installation.

3. The water pump replacement at 175 miles......is on me. I supplied it, bought from a MUD member. It was supposedly new, but had been sitting on his shelf. Maybe the seals dry rotted?

 

[GA Architect]

Oil Leak Update - A quick call back for a Monday Morning, per the engine builder; "He said it is not uncommon when using cork gaskets, to need the oil pan bolts re-torqued once hot oil is in the system. He asked that I snug up all the oil pan bolts, but not too tight (69 inch/pounds or 5.75 foot/pounds). If that doesn't work, call him back."

Note: He seemed very interested in getting this resolved, so that is a plus. Also, he did use the gray sealant on the gasket.

 

[myquestoyota]

I also had an early leak with a one piece gasket from a reputable source but not an oem one. I kicked myself and ordered an oem one piece gasket from beno. In the meantime I retorqued the bolts. It actually took two retorqings, a little bit at a time so as not to warp the pan but after the third one the leak stopped and I now have an oem gasket in my parts stash. I may have been too easy on the snugging of the bolts but it did do the trick. And for those that do have to replace the pan when the engine is in the rig you really need to get some fel-pro snapups. Makes it so much easier. Good luck GA, glad the shop was with you on this one.

 

[GA Architect]

I also had an early leak with a one piece gasket from a reputable source but not an oem one. I kicked myself and ordered an oem one piece gasket from beno. In the meantime I retorqued the bolts. It actually took two retorqings, a little bit at a time so as not to warp the pan but after the third one the leak stopped and I now have an oem gasket in my parts stash. I may have been too easy on the snugging of the bolts but it did do the trick. And for those that do have to replace the pan when the engine is in the rig you really need to get some fel-pro snapups. Makes it so much easier. Good luck GA, glad the shop was with you on this one.

myques - All parts that went into this endeavor are new OEM Toyota parts, sourced from beno (Onur). I hope the re-torquing clears this up as it did yours.

Heck, it is good to know that even the four water pump bolts (91612-61040) are new OEM parts. They shouldn't give me too much grief when I remove them to replace the water pump.

 

[78fj40mg]

GAA - You may want to re tighten all your cooling hoses as well.
BTW, I also recommended re torquing on thread #396.

 

[JohnnyC]

Did he say anything about retorque the head?

After few 100 miles or so

Remembered this thread on it:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/new-cylinder-head-retorque-method.816753/#post-9344605

 

[Solace in Solitude]

Rick,

I'm sincerely sorry for the issues you've encountered... I hope the issues you've mentioned are all there are... dealing with coolant and oil is quite enough!

I am keeping track of your issues, because I anticipate experiencing some of the same, when my engine is back in 44.

I had already planned to re-torque 'everything' that requires torquing and re-tightening everything that doesn't.

While the FSM has the torque specs, I've found (Link - Click It-->) @Hugh Heifer 's torque specs to be accurate for everything I've done on my 2F. But, read his disclaimer!!

For the oil pan bolts, I don't have an inch/lbs torque wrench, so I followed @Poser 's FAQ, which contains this excerpt: "Then I install the oil pan bolts using blue locktite and snug them up, being careful to not over-tighten the fasteners, and damage the pan gasket."

I then watch for oil seepage and snug a bit more, until it stops seeping. I've had to re-snug around the 'saddles' twice, to eliminate the seepage.

HTH

BTW: I spoke with the rebuilder today and he expects to have my 2F torn down by end-of-week... we'll see how it goes and just how bad it is...