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Stranded 1991 FJ80 named Vera - transmission stopped working

Discussion in '80-Series Tech' started by roostabunny, Apr 19, 2017.

  1. roostabunny

    roostabunny

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    Forgot to ask, how many bolts we looking for to unbolt from the engine?
     
  2. shocktower

    shocktower

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    I believe 8 + 2 for the exhaust bracket, I just did one last weekend don't forget the bolt starter in front of the starter 1 long bolt take that out first, oh disconnect your battery too
     
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  3. roostabunny

    roostabunny

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    In terms of A440F-removal noob lessons learned:

    1.) If I wasn't dead set on doing my first transfer case tear-down on the bench, the advice to pull it apart before trying to remove the transmission was excellent. As predicted, the transfer changes the weight distribution in a very awkward way.

    2.) Side-bottle motorcycle jacks (or at least the one we had) work, but create their own problems to overcome. There was only one jack orientation that was getting the transmission disengaged from the engine, but there was also no way we were getting the transmission all the way to the ground that way because the transfer case interfered with (came to rest on, in other words) the tall frame that holds the jack cylinder. We resolved that issue by getting the assembly about half way down, then supporting with rope/transmission lift hooks and a regular floor jack so that we could pull the cribbing from the moto jack, rotate it 90°, and raise back up to support the transmission. Then we moved the floor jack around parallel to the moto jack supporting the transfer case, and lowered them both together. Going back in, I'll save the tranfer re-assembly till after the transmission is secure. There were zero injuries or close calls, but it was really slow doing it this way, and I can see how a lift and proper transmission jack would make this job way way easier.

    This is the moto jack at 90° and the floor jack supporting the transfer.



    3.) There are 8 x 17mm bolts connecting the transmission to the engine.

    4.) Those bolts are not all the same length, obviously I'll need to figure out which goes where before attempting re-assembly.

    5.) As predicted, the top passenger-side trans-to-engine bolt was the hardest to remove. Combination of long extensions through the shifter hole, plus one of us fishing with the other watching/directing from the engine bay. I may make sharpie marks on the transfer shift mount area to indicate the proper angle of attack to hit those holes for re-assembly.

    6.) I made a wooden cradle to help the unit stay upright (see pic above), and it put most of the weight on the oil pan flange/casting instead of the pan itself. I think it was effective at stabilizing side-to-side like a trans jack pan might, but I fit the supports too tight to the pan armor mounting points on the pan, and cracked one of them. The pan is still intact, just need to fix the mounting tab, but I was disappointed that I hadn't see how how hard it was rubbing. We took it the cradle off, removed a bit of wood where it was rubbing, and that fixed it. I think it will help with re-assembly, and I'm 99% sure that with the transfer removed, the trans will actually balance on it.

    7.) The electrical connectors will hang up between the engine and I think it's the stiffener thing. Gotta help them through while lowering.

    8.) We worked it out, but a deep socket (14mm, I think) would have been handy for the transmission mount nuts under the cross-member.


    I'm sure there's more lessons learned, but that's what I have at the moment.
     
  4. roostabunny

    roostabunny

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    So on to the almost immediate questions for anyone who's ever messed with this transfer...

    The FSM for the A440F talks about a PTO Cover and staked (A440F FSM reads "stacked" but I think that's a typo) lock nut.


    Meanwhile, FJ80 FSM talks about remove 6 x bolts and remove transfer? And I don't see a PTO cover.


    And my rear companion flange seems to have no external nuts.


    Feel like I've got a mismatch somewhere.

    Didn't want to get slowed down so quick, but any tips? Would love to keep my momentum of getting this beast to the bench.

    Unstaking thread for posterity
    RTH - removing staked nuts
     
  5. roostabunny

    roostabunny

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    Another question - the plastic harness clamps and looms are mostly crumbs and dust.


    I found this thread about the one I broke up on the firewall, likely 82711-3h180. And it actually looks a lot like the one that broke on the top side of the transmission - will have to compare. Anyone tried to source this kind of plastic clampy bits? Or the loom?

    EDIT: Clarification, I know where to get split loom, just curious if it needs to be special or just general automotive grade.


    Also, the breather tubes are pretty brittle, but I think if I match size OK I can just use... regular vacuum hose?
     
  6. dallen341

    dallen341

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    the image from the FSM appears to be FJ-62 split case. Not what you have in this case.
     
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  7. roostabunny

    roostabunny

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    One of the challenges of owning a 3FE FJ80 seems to issues about thinking it's an FJ62. My truck is model-confused. I'm not judging, I love it regardless.

    Anyway, seems to me that both images show a rear companion flange with a center nut. Is there a place I can look for a model # on the transfer itself?

    Edit: Sorry, forgot I looked at this - it's supposed to be an HF2A
     
  8. dallen341

    dallen341

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    Not model number that I can recall tagged on the transfercase. Post up a picture of the transfercase and many will chime in I am sure.
     
  9. roostabunny

    roostabunny

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    I can get more, but these are the ones I have at the moment.





     
  10. dallen341

    dallen341

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    Looks like HF2A to me.
     
  11. roostabunny

    roostabunny

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    Update time after a little progress.

    I was stuck on how to start disassembling the transfer case - seems to be general consensus that it cannot be removed in one piece. But my FJ80/3FE and A440F factory manuals conflicted and neither looked 100% right.

    I found something on Youtube (timed link below) - an Aussie Mechanic showing how to install a part-time kit. Not exactly the same as mine, but the closest I've seen, particularly because, like mine, it has no PTO cover. It was a great step-by-step, so I followed along to get to this point...












    That's where I got stuck again, having trouble getting the input shaft bearing to stay in place while removing the case. When I first removed the outer circlip, I was able to rotate the bearing by hand. After getting the glue seal pried loose, I noticed that it was binding, figured it was from having the cover skew when prying, so I did some careful tapping on the high side and it freed up again.

    Here's the Youtube video at the point where the guy warns not to let the input shaft pull out with the case.




    Keep watching and you'll see how how easily he uses finger pressure to keep that bearing in place, but mine seems to be hanging up. I'm sure my outer circlip is out. Feels like the bearing is getting hung up on the circlip groove - it actually feels like the bearing has a flange to it, but that seems unlikely to me. I couldn't find a side view of the bearing online that settled it for me.

    The Koyo part# is koyo dg3585drkmd

    The matching Toyota part# is 90363-35030

    So, to get this next case layer off...

    Can I tap around the edges of the bearing and try to get it to sink back past the groove?

    If I remove the smaller inner circlip, can I pull the bearing out with the case and then figure out what's causing it to stick? Or is it pressed on there and will pull the shaft out anyway?

    Is there an HF2A (non-viscous) manual? Hopefully it's just some error on my part, but it sure feels like both FSM's reference some other transfer case.

    Anyone gotten this far or farther into one of these?
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2017
  12. dallen341

    dallen341

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    No need to disassemble the transfercase to remove it. 6 bolts secure it to the transmission. 17mm head on the bolts. Should like right off.

    D
     
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  13. roostabunny

    roostabunny

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    I appreciate that, Dallen341! Totally makes sense now, and my friend Kevin and I were doing just that while you were typing this. I hate to admit it, but the FJ80 FSM was right (just as you said), but since the pictured transfer was slightly off (and the A440F manual was way off, for my truck, anyway), I didn't trust it and didn't look hard enough to realize the 2 bolts on the back side made 6. :oops:

    Anyhow, lesson learned, and fairly cheap. Now that I broke the seal on the transfer, I still need to get that case off... so I can freakin' glue it back on, lol. Kevin assures me removal will be no problem, just need to keep things super square so I don't keep interfering with the bearing.

    So, big leap with that handled...

    Here's how it went, and it went fast aside from a fight with each snap ring, so all pics are after the fact...

    Unbolt the transfer from the adapter - 6 x 17mm bolts. They're different lengths with one bracket (I think for the kick-down cable) and a breather T bracket, so mind where they go.








    Then we saw this...










    I'd already released the outer 17mm bolts from the adapter (also different lengths, and a couple holding the lifting hooks) and the final two were inside at the bottom. What you can't see in the pics (because I took them after the fact) is that a snap ring on the output shaft is visible through the seal, holding the adapter bearing. Since the output shaft wasn't going anywhere, and the bearing goes with the adapter, we knew the snap ring had to come out before the adapter would. There was a spacer in there between the clip and the bearing.




    The 5 x 12mm bolts zipped out, they're probably M8 and they threaded right in the puller holes you can see in the pic. That made it simple to pry out the seal flange. We fought with the circlip, mainly because the snap-ring pliers I bought for birfield rebuilds don't quite open wide enough to clear these circlips from the groove. We got them out in once piece, and then were able to break the adapter loose with a plastic dead blow hammer alternating sides and then worked it off by hand. It was Kevin's idea to break it loose with a hammer, and I only hesitated because the FSM says to use a puller. Anyway, hammer worked fine, but if you wanted to use a puller, just re-install the seal flange and there's your puller threads.

    Removing the adapter revealed the governor, which slid off once we removed a second circlip that slightly exceeded the capability of my snap ring pliers. Also another spacer. I posed them in the pic, when we opened it up obviously there were right up against the governor.





    Back side of the governor...





    Leaving us with the output shaft and parking pawl actuator.







    Catch pan didn't catch much...






    Probably because I'd spilled a quart tipping the whole assembly earlier today without putting a plug in the transmission fill tube. Duh.






    A productive evening, and I'm super relieved to have this thing in chunks that I can lift "all by me onsie", as Capt. Jack Sparrow would say.



     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2017
  14. roostabunny

    roostabunny

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    Hey, forgot to say thanks for this!
     
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  15. roostabunny

    roostabunny

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    Didn't have time to continue the blow-by-blow. But we've found the slipping clutch. A half-literal literal "smoking gun" in the rear assembly.

    First pic is the clutch pack from the overdrive assembly. This was typical of the clutches I've inspected so far. Actually, I've see all but the front assembly because I haven't had a press to pop it open, but looking at the outside I'm guessing it'll look as nice as the overdrive set. Still replacing all frictions and steels with the rebuild kit - after nearly 250K, who cares how nice they look, we're making this thing new inside.




    Second Pic is the clutch pack from the rear assembly.

    Toast.

    Pressure plate is OK - may gently polish off the glaze, but it's not taco-ed.




    Oh, and the Transmission Fairy left me this, because his timing is impeccable.




    Last thing I'll say for now - it's odd how the FJ80 and A440F FSM's are nearly complete together with lots of overlap... but using only the A440F FSM leaves you with a surprising number of missing steps. For example... removing the internal shifter linkage/shaft/seals or removing the final piston plate at the very back.
     
  16. roostabunny

    roostabunny

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    Slow going?

    [​IMG]

    Yupper. Very slow. Long story. Anyway, most internal transmission assemblies are rebuilt, so just the valve body left before I can start re-assembling the transmission itself. In the meantime I've gone down multiple "it will never be easier than now" rabbit trails, including a total starter rebuild (good thing, too, the top armature bearing was dang gritty), and a bunch of cleaning/prepping.

    :worms:

    In that vein, tomorrow I'm replacing the rear main seal and oil pan gasket, so that hopefully all my scraping and cleaning years of oil gunk won't be for nothing. Then rebuild the valve body. Then finish replacing my universal joints. Then put the whole thing back together.
     
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  17. roostabunny

    roostabunny

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    In hindsight, it sounds crazy to say, "Yeah, tomorrow I'm going to swap out the rear main and 26-year-old oil pan gasket..."

    Good Lord, that gasket. I've read a few oil pan gasket threads, not sure why I thought mine would be different.

    But the pan is out. I did an awkward dance to remove lug nuts (wheels are off the ground and no driveshaft), so that I could remove the tie rod... once I released the gasket then realized the oil pan wasn't coming out with the tie rod in place. Thanks for the tip I read about the 2-jaw puller. I've got one of those 2- or 3-jaw reversible puller things on hand, and the joint popped easy peasy once I figure out how to set the puller up correctly.


    I'm toast. Fortunately, it's date night, and we're going out for some very well deserved Tex Mex. After I shower, of course. Love it that the kids are old enough to babysit themselves now.
     
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  18. roostabunny

    roostabunny

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    Two side things... an update and a question.

    Update: The Transfer Case is also back together - that was one of the rabbit trails. The case seemed to be stuck somewhere preventing full removal, but it was just that the big input support bearing has such tight tolerance on the sides, the case didn't want to move unless it was exactly square to the bearing. Hard to explain, sorry. Anyway, a brass drift let me coax the bearing back as I worked the case off. Really just paranoia on my part, thinking it was truly stuck or attached somewhere - couple taps and I thought... oh, that's really all it was? So, got the second cover off , cleaned up the mating surfaces, and "glued" all those case parts back together with FIPG.

    Question: Does anyone know the part# for the rubber plug that covers the timing peep hole? It's really part of the bell housing adapter, and so it seems to fall in a weird "not the engine" but also "not the transmission" zone. EDIT: *Facepalm* The part#'s printed on the dang thing, clear as day in my freakin' picture. :oops: So, let me try the search process again and see if I can actually find somewhere to buy a sub-part of a discontinued part.



     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2017
  19. shocktower

    shocktower

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    So you are going to be the tranny guy L0L, next 442's and then to the big leagues 343 :flipoff2:, oh and you can pull the transfer case off them one piece too :worms:
     
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