Box Rocket
SILVER Star
Bottom of the frame (directly behind swaybar bracket) to the top of the lower control arm is 9.75"
Rear Heavy Duty Swaybar owners got links that last?
- Thread starter LandCruiserPhil
- Start date
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- Thread starter
- #22
Prototype
Beefy links using Chromoly kevlar 1/2" 30° of articulation, mounts to a double shear pocket.
No give if swaybar to rock contact occurs.
Beefy links using Chromoly kevlar 1/2" 30° of articulation, mounts to a double shear pocket.
No give if swaybar to rock contact occurs.
- Thread starter
- #24
Went out testing yesterday and never made it home. Nice to always be set up and ready to go. Looks like quick rear disconnects is on the drawing board after testing. Pics to be added when I get home.
alia176
SILVER Star
So, you went out to get some milk......
- Thread starter
- #26
Tested rear links at full rear flex with a HD Whiteline rear swaybar and the front swaybar disconnected. Found a rock that was 32" tall to get there on the rear.
My 80 has flex better than most but not as much as some. Several set up factors go into the question will this work for you.
Not convinced the new set up will be long lived looking at the links at full rear flex. Thinking maybe add a disconnect feature but I dont like the feel off road with both disconnected. From the other side swaybar end bushing are cheap maybe just carry an extra set. The hiemed links seem to have enough rotation for flex I have.
What the rear looks like at full flex. New upper and lower control arms with much less resistance are just around the corner to add to the solution.
My 80 has flex better than most but not as much as some. Several set up factors go into the question will this work for you.
Not convinced the new set up will be long lived looking at the links at full rear flex. Thinking maybe add a disconnect feature but I dont like the feel off road with both disconnected. From the other side swaybar end bushing are cheap maybe just carry an extra set. The hiemed links seem to have enough rotation for flex I have.
What the rear looks like at full flex. New upper and lower control arms with much less resistance are just around the corner to add to the solution.
Box Rocket
SILVER Star
Hmm. yeah looks like it's maxing out the heims with the travel you have. Maybe I'll just need to modify some stock ones?
Would a larger assembly help, More surface?
- Thread starter
- #29
Not sure how you could get more than the 30° with the current set up.
Larger assembly with more surface.?..Im all ears
When you measure the amount of twist in the HD bar when pushed it lets you know there is a LOT of force you are dealing with. Makes me think about the guys running stock links and what could happen if a link broke at speed in a turn. I may not have a 100% solution but I feel a lot better about the set up on the street as I find myself go arguably faster I should at times. I dont see the current setup breaking easily.
Box Rocket
SILVER Star
So when you say the current setup is going to the drawing board, are you redesigning again or are you happy with what you have?
- Thread starter
- #31
Too early to call but currently I'm not 100% committed. I will move forward on the upper bracket drawing as I don't see it changing. Need more miles on the current set up with some real time wheeling not just driving up on rocks as I try to break it. I'm open for input to help address my concerns.
Box Rocket
SILVER Star
Gotcha. What are the main concerns at this point? Parts not beefy enough for the forces applied? Not enough range of motion on the heims? Something else?
I misread the "drawing board" comment you made. Somehow missed that it was rear disconnects that you meant might be on the drawing board. I thought you were scrapping this design for the links and going back to the drawing board. My bad.
1973Guppie
Supporting Vendor
How does the whiteline hd swaybar hold up to rocks? does it keep it's form. My rear stock swaybar is all sorts of out of whack after a rubicon trip. Just curious if the whiteline keeps it form better than the stock one?
- Thread starter
- #34
So far so good plenty of powder coat missing. Being much larger one could assume it will take more of a beating.
Box Rocket
SILVER Star
My Blackhawk one looks about the same. It's been put through the ringer and everything is still straight but lots of chipped powdercoat.
Phil it seems like if you offset your upper frame mount outboard a little might help you angles? Hard to tell for sure from your flex shot.
- Thread starter
- #37
At times yes but the swaybar does more side to side.
1973Guppie
Supporting Vendor
thx guys, will have to put the hd swaybar on my "list". I like where you are going with this Phil. Best of luck with it.
Noah
Noah
I'll throw this in for your consideration.
The heim joints are always set up as a cantilevered bolt, so the vertical force has a considerable offset (side leverage), causing extra twisting force that isn't really part of the basic geometry. The force follows a zig-zag path instead of a straight line. You can see the twisting force at work in this photo, exaggerating the angle problem even more. Look at the washers.
Much better if you can use a double shear joint of some kind, so the force is pure tension / compression along the link. Then it doesn't need to be massive to take the strain without over-stressing. Still needs to pivot in 2 directions though.
This stock link uses double shear, for example.
This pivots like a hinge for and aft, and twists the rubber side to side, but the main force is still directed straight into the center of the "eye".
Notice a basic aspect that make the "rubber spherical joint" type of thing work in so many OEM bushings, is that the rubber is sort of "contained" in the joint, making it act like an incompressible fluid, so it can take a lot more force than you would expect from mere rubber.
Also this:
But, like you said, making the link as long as possible, and the bracket as short as possible, will minimize the angle changes. So, this OEM design could be easily improved in that way.
The heim joints are always set up as a cantilevered bolt, so the vertical force has a considerable offset (side leverage), causing extra twisting force that isn't really part of the basic geometry. The force follows a zig-zag path instead of a straight line. You can see the twisting force at work in this photo, exaggerating the angle problem even more. Look at the washers.
Much better if you can use a double shear joint of some kind, so the force is pure tension / compression along the link. Then it doesn't need to be massive to take the strain without over-stressing. Still needs to pivot in 2 directions though.
This stock link uses double shear, for example.
This pivots like a hinge for and aft, and twists the rubber side to side, but the main force is still directed straight into the center of the "eye".
Notice a basic aspect that make the "rubber spherical joint" type of thing work in so many OEM bushings, is that the rubber is sort of "contained" in the joint, making it act like an incompressible fluid, so it can take a lot more force than you would expect from mere rubber.
Also this:
If the bracket is made such that everything is straight up and down in the unflexed position, then the angles would be minimized at each extreme of flex.
But, like you said, making the link as long as possible, and the bracket as short as possible, will minimize the angle changes. So, this OEM design could be easily improved in that way.
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I shouldn't have said "heim joints are always set up as a cantilevered bolt".
Your upper is double shear. Basically better, but can't really use a heim joint that way at the sway bar eye.
Your upper is double shear. Basically better, but can't really use a heim joint that way at the sway bar eye.
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