RevISK
SILVER Star
REAL TIME a440f help getting 👉🏽 manual swapped (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter RevISK
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Skreddy
SILVER Star
I’ve never been to Dallas and don’t have a trip planned. Just whiskey induced humor.
chelo
SILVER Star
FYI, I had a convertor rebuild once by them and my tc failed within a year. It wasn't for a cruiser though.
I had the same issue with an A440F. Georg was no help. It was a brand new unit from Wholesale Automatic in Aus. Georg wanted nothing to do with it and sent me to his transmission guy. I ended up selling the rig for about 1/3 what I had into it because of that transmission. Good luck and hope you don't run into the same jam I got into.
Edit: Just read the whole thread. Same exact transmission and issues I had. Rodney convinced me to buy a billet tc from them to fix it. No luck. Then had me buy gauges through them to make sure my temp reading on the Autometer were correct (they were). My transmission was at 220* or higher when the TC wouldn't lock up. I ended up getting about 15MPG on the 1HDT and as I mentioned above, sold the rig. Glad Georg is helping you. I came to him for help and got nowhere back in 2019/2020.
Edit: Just read the whole thread. Same exact transmission and issues I had. Rodney convinced me to buy a billet tc from them to fix it. No luck. Then had me buy gauges through them to make sure my temp reading on the Autometer were correct (they were). My transmission was at 220* or higher when the TC wouldn't lock up. I ended up getting about 15MPG on the 1HDT and as I mentioned above, sold the rig. Glad Georg is helping you. I came to him for help and got nowhere back in 2019/2020.
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RevISK
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #66
Thank you for your comments and contribution to this thread. I really hope that I don’t have to sell this rig, if I do, it will be for a loss as well.
I’m just hopeful that there will be some sort of resolution. Waiting for Rodney to reply as of yet.
Per Georg’s suggestion, I’m holding off on doing anything else with the transmission until we hear back from Rodney.
If I don’t get a response by Monday (Tuesday for Australia) I’ll refill the truck with the fresh fluid I have and at least be able to use it for short trips to work while I’m in Dallas on this job. Come time to go home I’ll either take the back roads or have the company fly me home and I’ll come back with a trailer.
I did have dinner with CD @ceylonfj40nut last night, so that was nice.
RevISK
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #67
Also, @Bisonthecruiser I am disappointed to hear, and frankly very surprised as well, about your experience with Georg.
I have had nothing but positive experiences with him and Valley Hybrids/Cruiser Brothers as a whole.
I have had nothing but positive experiences with him and Valley Hybrids/Cruiser Brothers as a whole.
Malleus
Far west of Siegen
I've only found two torque converter rebuilders i have faith in:
Florida Torque Converters, in Tampa (who I buy from)
and
Precision, in New Hampshire (and who are impossoble to deal with, at least in NC).
Florida Torque Converters, in Tampa (who I buy from)
and
Precision, in New Hampshire (and who are impossoble to deal with, at least in NC).
RevISK
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #70
@Malleus, you bring up an interesting point that I have been trying to educate myself about.
How does a Torque Converter work and how would it fail?
I think I mentioned it above somewhere but Georg said this,
"Definitely not a torque converter issue or it would t move at all.
I’d say that’s something in the valve body or the OD clutch pack."
I am wading my way through the A440f manual. Riveting stuff. Trying to align the nomenclature so as to identify the individual parts I am attempting to diagnose.
How does a Torque Converter work and how would it fail?
I think I mentioned it above somewhere but Georg said this,
"Definitely not a torque converter issue or it would t move at all.
I’d say that’s something in the valve body or the OD clutch pack."
I am wading my way through the A440f manual. Riveting stuff. Trying to align the nomenclature so as to identify the individual parts I am attempting to diagnose.
Assuming we've diagnosed it correctly, it's the TC lockup clutch that's not engaging. I'd look for anything related to that in the manual.
Shop in Dallas:
What is a Lock-Up Torque Converter?
Torque converters work alongside the engine by transferring the rotation power that is produced by the engine.
RevISK
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #72
Thank you for that. I did some more looking about and found these resources. Pic is from the video and the video does a darn good job of explaining TC and potential failures.Assuming we've diagnosed it correctly, it's the TC lockup clutch that's not engaging. I'd look for anything related to that in the manual.
Shop in Dallas:
What is a Lock-Up Torque Converter?
Torque converters work alongside the engine by transferring the rotation power that is produced by the engine.www.eagletransmissionmesquite.com
So now I am left wondering if it could indeed be the TC failure? Georg was pretty adamant that it couldn't be but if the clutch failed somehow, the converter simply wouldn't lock up. Truck would still go, right? Conversely, could that be the material I found on the magnets and plug?
Sure seems likely.
Once you get it back together, the one thing you need to make *really* sure of is that it's correctly shifting back and forth from 3rd to 4th: At one point you said there was no difference between shifter in "3" and shifter in "D". If that's indeed the case then we're on the wrong track.
RevISK
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #74
ok. I guess I need to backtrack and concede that you, again, are onto something. I just got off the phone with Georg who walked me through exactly why I DO NOT have a torque converter issue. It was a fairly complicated walk through but let's just say I believe him. During this conversation I explained my rpm's and speed when I was driving here after the problem arose and he assures me I was not in 4th. While I really feel I counted through 4 gears, the RPMs and speed disagree.Sure seems likely.
Once you get it back together, the one thing you need to make *really* sure of is that it's correctly shifting back and forth from 3rd to 4th: At one point you said there was no difference between shifter in "3" and shifter in "D". If that's indeed the case then we're on the wrong track.
So @CJF it does appear we are on the wrong track and this is why Georg thinks it's a VB or clutch issue.
Turns out Georg was a transmission tech/mechanic for many years before starting his business and made my head spin with his knowledge.
He also swears by SaxCo and their Torque Converters FWIW...
Damn, ok, was really hoping to get some
(some assembly required, T-Case not included)
RevISK
SILVER Star
- Thread starter
- #76
@Skniper I know these tricks... now. Why do you think I have 3 but no spare T Case?
Georg is sending a guy out at some point to pick up 2 that I have as well as 1 or 2 from AJ as cores. If I remember I'll see if you are still stubbing your toes on that thing and maybe the dude will come and get?
Georg is sending a guy out at some point to pick up 2 that I have as well as 1 or 2 from AJ as cores. If I remember I'll see if you are still stubbing your toes on that thing and maybe the dude will come and get?
I will happily donate it to the core cause. Hell I don't mind a little road trip, I'll deliver it!!
Malleus
Far west of Siegen
Sorry, I'm late to the party, but you appear to have the answers you need.
I can only add...
Just to add to Georg's thoughts...if the transmission was truly rebuilt properly, there is very little in the overdrive clutch stack that could be the problem. Additionally, I don't see how that mess on your drain plug came from the driveline in the case (again, I'm giving the guy who rebuilt it the benefit of the doubt here). If I had to guess, and that's all I can do from here, it's the valve body. There was/is trash in there that wasn't removed when it was rebuilt because no one touched it. That's possible, especially if all that was required for the rebuild was new gaskets and clutches.
If I was running a shop and someone working for me didn't really clean a valve body when they rebuilt a transmission, I'd fire them on the spot. With extreme prejudice, as the saying goes. That's malpractice, but I can see it happening.
For reference, this is what the overdrive set looks like:
Like all modern automatic transmissions, it's comprised of several planetary gear trains, each having a central gear (referred to as a sun gear), usually mounted on a shaft, but sometimes cut onto the shaft, onto which rotate and engage with several (usually 3 or more) gears (referred to as planet gears, hence the name), which themselves also engage with and rotate within a ring gear. The ring gear also has a reaction arm of some type (referred to as a brake in an automatic transmission) to either allow it to rotate, or prevent its rotation. The planets gears further have a link between them (known as a planet carrier), which serve to cause them to rotate equidistantly apart (so they don't run into each other, and so they equally support the load placed on them).
There are various combinations of rotation allowed for in this design, which is why its so popular (and a true PITA to design). Either the sun can rotate, or not, the planets can sit in place and rotate, with respect to the ring, or the can roll around the sun and rotate, and the ring can rotate, or not. Or any of several combinations of these motions are allowed for.
Within these sets of planetary arrangements the designers have placed clutch discs, which are keyed to rotate with the central shaft of the train, and are interleaved with reaction plates (commonly referred to as steels), which are keyed into the case to prevent rotation. The clutches and steels are further allowed to float axially, along the central shaft's axis, unless they are clamped together by a hydraulically operated piston, at one end of the stack.
The purpose of these clutches is to clamp the various planetary items together, or not, to provide working combinations of gear engagement. Remember, they are stuck onto the central shaft, along with the sun gear. The ring generally has a band clamp around it, which is also opened or closed via a hydraulically operated piston.
Now you know, in theory, what is supposed to happen when a gear is "selected" or called for by the hydraulic program. IF any one of the items in the train doesn't move, or stop moving, when it's supposed to, that gear doesn't "get made".
I can only add...
Just to add to Georg's thoughts...if the transmission was truly rebuilt properly, there is very little in the overdrive clutch stack that could be the problem. Additionally, I don't see how that mess on your drain plug came from the driveline in the case (again, I'm giving the guy who rebuilt it the benefit of the doubt here). If I had to guess, and that's all I can do from here, it's the valve body. There was/is trash in there that wasn't removed when it was rebuilt because no one touched it. That's possible, especially if all that was required for the rebuild was new gaskets and clutches.
If I was running a shop and someone working for me didn't really clean a valve body when they rebuilt a transmission, I'd fire them on the spot. With extreme prejudice, as the saying goes. That's malpractice, but I can see it happening.
For reference, this is what the overdrive set looks like:
Like all modern automatic transmissions, it's comprised of several planetary gear trains, each having a central gear (referred to as a sun gear), usually mounted on a shaft, but sometimes cut onto the shaft, onto which rotate and engage with several (usually 3 or more) gears (referred to as planet gears, hence the name), which themselves also engage with and rotate within a ring gear. The ring gear also has a reaction arm of some type (referred to as a brake in an automatic transmission) to either allow it to rotate, or prevent its rotation. The planets gears further have a link between them (known as a planet carrier), which serve to cause them to rotate equidistantly apart (so they don't run into each other, and so they equally support the load placed on them).
There are various combinations of rotation allowed for in this design, which is why its so popular (and a true PITA to design). Either the sun can rotate, or not, the planets can sit in place and rotate, with respect to the ring, or the can roll around the sun and rotate, and the ring can rotate, or not. Or any of several combinations of these motions are allowed for.
Within these sets of planetary arrangements the designers have placed clutch discs, which are keyed to rotate with the central shaft of the train, and are interleaved with reaction plates (commonly referred to as steels), which are keyed into the case to prevent rotation. The clutches and steels are further allowed to float axially, along the central shaft's axis, unless they are clamped together by a hydraulically operated piston, at one end of the stack.
The purpose of these clutches is to clamp the various planetary items together, or not, to provide working combinations of gear engagement. Remember, they are stuck onto the central shaft, along with the sun gear. The ring generally has a band clamp around it, which is also opened or closed via a hydraulically operated piston.
Now you know, in theory, what is supposed to happen when a gear is "selected" or called for by the hydraulic program. IF any one of the items in the train doesn't move, or stop moving, when it's supposed to, that gear doesn't "get made".
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Did you ask him whether it's still possible that the TC not locking up is the issue? I'm guessing the answer to that is "yes", but that the fix is somewhere other than in the TC itself, such as in the valve body.
Malleus
Far west of Siegen
Now that you have the background, here's the OD system:
Starting from left to right,
the overdrive drum serves as a reaction plate for the overdrive piston, which clamps the clutches against the steels, and as a hydraulic reservoir, of sorts, for the piston;
the piston return spring's purpose is to remove the pressure on the clutches when they aren't engaged, so that they don't wear prematurely;
the clutches and steels serve to clamp the gear train and the flange and snap ring are the other end reaction members against which the piston pushes;
the one-way clutch provides a second means of selecting the various planetary gear items to "make" a gear ratio;
the overdrive planetary gear and the attached carrier with the planets, and the ring are what actually drives the wheels.
This is why I can't see anything in the OD set being the cause of your problem, because all that's happening is sliding along the axis of the central shaft, or not, and rotating, or not. Anything that would prevent that would have been obvious to the rebuilder (and, again, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt here) and, presumably he would have replaced the bad part(s).
The function of the valve body is simply to send fluid to the proper piston in the gear trains so that the required gear is available, based on the output shaft speed.
Now you know all I know about this thing.
Starting from left to right,
the overdrive drum serves as a reaction plate for the overdrive piston, which clamps the clutches against the steels, and as a hydraulic reservoir, of sorts, for the piston;
the piston return spring's purpose is to remove the pressure on the clutches when they aren't engaged, so that they don't wear prematurely;
the clutches and steels serve to clamp the gear train and the flange and snap ring are the other end reaction members against which the piston pushes;
the one-way clutch provides a second means of selecting the various planetary gear items to "make" a gear ratio;
the overdrive planetary gear and the attached carrier with the planets, and the ring are what actually drives the wheels.
This is why I can't see anything in the OD set being the cause of your problem, because all that's happening is sliding along the axis of the central shaft, or not, and rotating, or not. Anything that would prevent that would have been obvious to the rebuilder (and, again, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt here) and, presumably he would have replaced the bad part(s).
The function of the valve body is simply to send fluid to the proper piston in the gear trains so that the required gear is available, based on the output shaft speed.
Now you know all I know about this thing.
