Pros and cons on Harbor Freight's 12,000 lbs Bad Land winch (2 Viewers)

[NCFJ]

Warn in still here in the US and making great winches. Just don't count that dual winch/compressor combo thing they made. that was one of their only epic failures.

I have a Power Plant 12K, since 2007-8, still works as designed and has worked hard both on the trail and on the farm. It's mounted on a tray and can be used on multiple vehicles, front and rear and also used on the trailer. It'll air up 4 - 33" KM2s from 12 to 45 faster than an on board ARB compressor.

 

[ADROIT]

https://www.devon4x4.com/

Finally found that link that had been avoiding me. Lots of top of the line upgradeable parts.

 

[spartan]

That's why I carried that huge Danforth anchor around. I never tried a tire, but as a last resort 6' deep it might work. I also rarely got stuck. Usually it was just a matter of realizing when I was in soft spot on the beach, stopping before I dug in and shoveling some sand out of the way then moving on. I used that Danforth three times and it was a bitch. Once for mud, twice for sand. It did work. You bury a 70# danforth DEEP, set it with your winch the same way you back down on one with a boat and it will hold. Dig a trench for the anchor chain all the way down to anchor depth. I picked that anchor up for $100 off a salvage wreck. I don't know how many folks want to pay $500 for a new Danforth anchor that size, but I used to like to wheel alone in remote areas. I figure the $100 I spent on that anchor was well worth it for those three times I used it.

Danforth Galvanized Steel Fluke Boat Anchor

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

That's why I carried that huge Danforth anchor around. I never tried a tire, but as a last resort 6' deep it might work. I also rarely got stuck. Usually it was just a matter of realizing when I was in soft spot on the beach, stopping before I dug in and shoveling some sand out of the way then moving on. I used that Danforth three times and it was a bitch. Once for mud, twice for sand. It did work. You bury a 70# danforth DEEP, set it with your winch the same way you back down on one with a boat and it will hold.

If you can dig a hole 40" in diameter and 6' deep you dont need a winch.

 

[spartan]

If you can dig a hole 40" in diameter and 6' deep you dont need a winch.

You got a point there. The only time I ever saw a tire used successfully was by a guy in a ragtop jeep. How much do those weigh? I wasn't about to help, cause there was already two feet of water over a 100 yard span and the tide was coming in. He did get out though.

 

[bhicks]

I have a Power Plant 12K, since 2007-8, still works as designed and has worked hard both on the trail and on the farm. It's mounted on a tray and can be used on multiple vehicles, front and rear and also used on the trailer. It'll air up 4 - 33" KM2s from 12 to 45 faster than an on board ARB compressor.

Wow. The compressor on the one that I owned died on it's 2nd use. It was warrantied but after the 3rd compressor I just gave up and sold the winch on craigslist as damaged. The few guys I wheeled with that had one experienced the same basic issues so I assumed it was a universal issue. Maybe you got a good one and we just had bad luck. Either way, I'm never buying one of those again.

 

[inkpot]

Wow. The compressor on the one that I owned died on it's 2nd use. It was warrantied but after the 3rd compressor I just gave up and sold the winch on craigslist as damaged. The few guys I wheeled with that had one experienced the same basic issues so I assumed it was a universal issue. Maybe you got a good one and we just had bad luck. Either way, I'm never buying one of those again.

Have heard of a few folks having similar issues around here. Although they are convenient, I shy away from "combo" units. Telephones with answering machine built in, tv with vcr built in, etc have burned me in the past. John

 

[Hornd]

Maybe this is a good deal for sub $500:

Warn VR10,000

We will be finding out in 1-2 wks

 

[sbrodacz]

I ran the 9000lb on a wrangler for years. Worked great. Pulls slower than a Warn but so what. If you're stuck you're stuck. If it takes me 10 minutes to get out instead of 5, at least I am getting out. I've used the 12,000 lb a bunch of times. It did fail on me once. I guess I was running it too much and not letting it cool down. It actually stopped working all together. A few days later it started to work again.

For the money it is worth it. Give it time to cool down. If you have the extra money spend it on a Warn or something similar.

 

[Dragos80]

HF Badland seems to have a rather low duty cycle at 5%, I think that's just too low. 45 seconds on, 15 minutes off. Couple that with a low speed and you will spend a lot of time waiting for it to cool off.
The brake is inside the drum, so if you want to swap in a synthetic rope, you need to be extra careful there too since it may get too hot.


Superwinch has a much better duty cycle 2 minutes on, 15 minutes off.

Warn? I don't know.
While just about every winch has a motor power rated around 6 HP (6.6 for Smittybilt), Warn kept theirs at 4.6 HP.
Some Warn models have the same gearing (265:1) as HF Badland, I don't see how Warn can have a faster line pull.


Does anybody know what the duty cycle is for Warn?

 

[subzali]

@Warn Industries, I'm curious about the duty cycle question

 

[Mandrake]

I and a few friends have the 12K winch. For me, it wasn't bought of of necessity, but rather a last ditch tool for when things just really, really bad. So, I don't use it much.

However...

Like you, I was dubious but rather than just pop off about how it's garbage (it does have good reviews from reputable sources) and throw $1500 or whatever at Warn, I decided to buy it on sale, take it all apart and if it passed the muster at that point, give it a fair shake on the trail.

First off, the wiring is pretty damn all right. Nice thick copper wire all around with decently thick insulation and well crimped terminal ends. I'm an aircraft electrician and the wiring on this winch isn't too far off from the quality you'd see on the C-130's I work on. It is *NOT* aircraft grade, but it's closer to that than what you'd expect HF to sell you. The relay is massive and the plastic it's housed in (not the box, but the actual relay itself) has a pretty high melting point. All terminal posts are big, stout and come with proper hardware. One thing I would suggest doing is to use a high temp RTV or epoxy resin to pot all the connections. It'll keep them secure and weatherproof. The rubber boots they include aren't bad, but I like overkill, so I potted mine. The only real gripe I had about the electrical end of things was that the rubber cap that covers the receptacle for the remote is a bit cheesy and doesn't have a key on it to fill the slot on the outside of the receptacle, which introduces a path for stuff to get in. I wanted the wireless remote, so I just sealed the plug with RTV when I plugged the Rx in and called it a day. If you want to go overboard, find a mil-spec three pin Cannon plug and use that in place of the ding dong plug they give you.

The remote is made from a really nice glass reinforced nylon (30%, if I recall the marking) and the switch inside was bigger than I expected with a really nice positive click- click feel to it. But since I went with the wireless remote setup, the supplied control sits as a spare.

On the hardware end of things, the stuff they give you to bolt this big bastard down isn't half bad. I can't recall the grade, but I remember thinking, "huh... no s***..." when I saw that it was either 8.8 or 10.9. Or maybe higher. I don't remember. I do remember that a file barely touched it, so it can't be the usual pudding-grade alloy.

On to the gearbox. The shafts and gears were all proper hardened steel and the gears had decent finishes on the faces of the teeth, unlike what you usually see from HF crap. Again with the file, it didn't even touch the gears. I haven't been inside any other winch gearboxes, but the width of the gears struck me as overkill and wider than I would have expected. The grease was low grade like you'd expect and I figured that since I was in there, I'd clean everything up and restuff it with some HP Moly upon reassembly. I did notice that it was much easier to engage and disengage the clutch after I relubed it...

I didn't pull the motor apart, but I've seen pictures and video of it and it's the standard fare- epoxied windings, balancing grooves and decent brushes with brass holders and heavy springs. I can't recall what type of connectors were used for the brushes, though.

The cable is a cable. I've seen better and I've seen worse and considering that the cable's eventually going to get dragged across rocks and whatnot, it's a consumable. Buy a spare or wind it with synth and keep the original as a trail spare. The thimble and ferrule didn't appear out of the ordinary, nor did the hook and pin. There certainly are better out there, but you'll pay for them. I did some searching and couldn't find any posts about anyone having issues with this stuff, so I left it alone.

My biggest complaint, though, is the roller fairlead. It sticks out like a wart and the rollers didn't initially roll when the cable ran across them. I have since taken them apart and lubed them with the same HP Moly that went in the gearbox and they roll fine now. But still... it just is so damn clumsy. As with the hardware for mounting the winch, what they give you for the fairlead is good stuff and throwing it out would be a waste.

Fitment wise, it fit just fine. HOWEVER! Unless you have a 1" or more body lift, the clutch lever (or in/out lever if you prefer) will hit your trans cooler. I have a 1" body lift, and there's about 3/4" between the lever and the lower passengers side corner of the cooler. You have two options- either cut and reweld the lever so it's pointed somewhere else, or clock the gearbox to rotate the lever forward. Since you're already taking the gearbox apart to clean and put some proper lube in there...

Now that it's in and wired, go play with it, but don't be in a hurry because it's SLOW. When a friend first saw just how slow it is, he joked that they must have put a 24V or 48V motor in by accident. Seriously... it's slow. But, slow's the name of the game when winching, so what's the rush anyway? If you're throwing this on a competition rig, you're not going to win any races. But for the average dummy that occasionally gets in over his ass on the trail or the occasional stump removal, it's a solid buy.

HF has some hidden gems, and this is one of them.

 

[mct75]

I'm in the market for a winch, and am a big fan of HF stuff (I buy 95% of my tools there, so I'm no hater), but I'm torn between the HF 12000 pound winch and this one from Smittybilt:

Amazon.com: Smittybilt 97495 XRC Winch - 9500 lb. Load Capacity: Smittybilt Products: Automotive

The Smittybilt is a pinch cheaper and is rated at 9500 pounds, but I am assuming it's going to be a better quality and possibly match the HF's performance. Plus it has what seems to be a great warranty.

 

[Bludozer]

I and a few friends have the 12K winch. For me, it wasn't bought of of necessity, but rather a last ditch tool for when things just really, really bad. So, I don't use it much.

However...

Like you, I was dubious but rather than just pop off about how it's garbage (it does have good reviews from reputable sources) and throw $1500 or whatever at Warn, I decided to buy it on sale, take it all apart and if it passed the muster at that point, give it a fair shake on the trail.

First off, the wiring is pretty damn all right. Nice thick copper wire all around with decently thick insulation and well crimped terminal ends. I'm an aircraft electrician and the wiring on this winch isn't too far off from the quality you'd see on the C-130's I work on. It is *NOT* aircraft grade, but it's closer to that than what you'd expect HF to sell you. The relay is massive and the plastic it's housed in (not the box, but the actual relay itself) has a pretty high melting point. All terminal posts are big, stout and come with proper hardware. One thing I would suggest doing is to use a high temp RTV or epoxy resin to pot all the connections. It'll keep them secure and weatherproof. The rubber boots they include aren't bad, but I like overkill, so I potted mine. The only real gripe I had about the electrical end of things was that the rubber cap that covers the receptacle for the remote is a bit cheesy and doesn't have a key on it to fill the slot on the outside of the receptacle, which introduces a path for stuff to get in. I wanted the wireless remote, so I just sealed the plug with RTV when I plugged the Rx in and called it a day. If you want to go overboard, find a mil-spec three pin Cannon plug and use that in place of the ding dong plug they give you.

The remote is made from a really nice glass reinforced nylon (30%, if I recall the marking) and the switch inside was bigger than I expected with a really nice positive click- click feel to it. But since I went with the wireless remote setup, the supplied control sits as a spare.

On the hardware end of things, the stuff they give you to bolt this big bastard down isn't half bad. I can't recall the grade, but I remember thinking, "huh... no s***..." when I saw that it was either 8.8 or 10.9. Or maybe higher. I don't remember. I do remember that a file barely touched it, so it can't be the usual pudding-grade alloy.

On to the gearbox. The shafts and gears were all proper hardened steel and the gears had decent finishes on the faces of the teeth, unlike what you usually see from HF crap. Again with the file, it didn't even touch the gears. I haven't been inside any other winch gearboxes, but the width of the gears struck me as overkill and wider than I would have expected. The grease was low grade like you'd expect and I figured that since I was in there, I'd clean everything up and restuff it with some HP Moly upon reassembly. I did notice that it was much easier to engage and disengage the clutch after I relubed it...

I didn't pull the motor apart, but I've seen pictures and video of it and it's the standard fare- epoxied windings, balancing grooves and decent brushes with brass holders and heavy springs. I can't recall what type of connectors were used for the brushes, though.

The cable is a cable. I've seen better and I've seen worse and considering that the cable's eventually going to get dragged across rocks and whatnot, it's a consumable. Buy a spare or wind it with synth and keep the original as a trail spare. The thimble and ferrule didn't appear out of the ordinary, nor did the hook and pin. There certainly are better out there, but you'll pay for them. I did some searching and couldn't find any posts about anyone having issues with this stuff, so I left it alone.

My biggest complaint, though, is the roller fairlead. It sticks out like a wart and the rollers didn't initially roll when the cable ran across them. I have since taken them apart and lubed them with the same HP Moly that went in the gearbox and they roll fine now. But still... it just is so damn clumsy. As with the hardware for mounting the winch, what they give you for the fairlead is good stuff and throwing it out would be a waste.

Fitment wise, it fit just fine. HOWEVER! Unless you have a 1" or more body lift, the clutch lever (or in/out lever if you prefer) will hit your trans cooler. I have a 1" body lift, and there's about 3/4" between the lever and the lower passengers side corner of the cooler. You have two options- either cut and reweld the lever so it's pointed somewhere else, or clock the gearbox to rotate the lever forward. Since you're already taking the gearbox apart to clean and put some proper lube in there...

Now that it's in and wired, go play with it, but don't be in a hurry because it's SLOW. When a friend first saw just how slow it is, he joked that they must have put a 24V or 48V motor in by accident. Seriously... it's slow. But, slow's the name of the game when winching, so what's the rush anyway? If you're throwing this on a competition rig, you're not going to win any races. But for the average dummy that occasionally gets in over his ass on the trail or the occasional stump removal, it's a solid buy.

HF has some hidden gems, and this is one of them.

Really nice write up man. s*** like this is why I come here. I've been waffling about this purchase and I think you just made my decision for me.

 

[Mandrake]

Right on, man. I'm glad it helped. A couple other thoughts that have come to mind since I posted that...

I have a Bump It Offroad tube bumper, and between that and the body lift, I was able to literally drop the winch in place. Depending on what you have may or may not allow you to do this, and your bumper may place the winch more forward than the BIOR bumper, so you may not have the lever to cooler clearance issue I'd have if I didn't have the body lift.

As for routing the wires, I ended up taking the solenoid out of that huge box they put it in and bolting it directly to the front of the radiator support up and behind the passenger turn signal. Since I was going to pot all the electrical connections, I wasn't worried about the relay being out of that box. FWIW, the relay is about 1/4 the size of that box, so your mounting location options grow if you ditch the box. I also mounted the receiver for the wireless remote up there as well. The wires going to the battery will be long enough from this location and you'll have enough to keep from having to bend the wires too tightly. If it helps, the minimum bend radius for what you're working with in this case is three times the diameter including the insulator if you're supporting it at both sides of the bend.

When you take the gearbox apart to relube it, take extra care to preserve the gasket. I'm not sure HF can get you a replacement if it breaks, so I worked slow and used a fresh x-acto blade to help it along.

That's pretty much it. If you have any other questions about it or the install, post back on this thread so the info can stay public.

 

[Marine7]

I'm in the market for a winch, and am a big fan of HF stuff (I buy 95% of my tools there, so I'm no hater), but I'm torn between the HF 12000 pound winch and this one from Smittybilt:

Amazon.com: Smittybilt 97495 XRC Winch - 9500 lb. Load Capacity: Smittybilt Products: Automotive

The Smittybilt is a pinch cheaper and is rated at 9500 pounds, but I am assuming it's going to be a better quality and possibly match the HF's performance. Plus it has what seems to be a great warranty.

I've had the Mile Marker, and I wouldn't give you 2 cents for another one. I now have a HF..... much better winch.

 

[Qball]

One more vote for smutty built 12k winch with synthetic rope, less than 600 out of the door.

Only used it a few times one day at pismo. Pull out multiple full size loaded bro dozers in seconds. Set expectation low and be happy, at least that's what my wife told me.....or was it said about me???

 

[Marine7]

Smittybuilt's "top end" winches are probably close to being the best of the best. But their entry level winches are trash! Built in the same Chinese factory as HF, and other economy winches. My first winch was a $300 mile marker, it didn't last thru the first frikkin pull! My HF has drug MANY Heeps out of mud! Never a problem.

 

[Dragos80]

One more vote for smutty built 12k winch with synthetic rope, less than 600 out of the door.

Only used it a few times one day at pismo. Pull out multiple full size loaded bro dozers in seconds. Set expectation low and be happy, at least that's what my wife told me.....or was it said about me???

What is the duty cycle on Smittybilt?

 

[Qball]

What is the duty cycle on Smittybilt?

No idea even after consulting google.