Planning stages for a dedicated roadtripper build

[DSRTRDR]

Hi Mark, seems to me you are overthinking this by a whole lot - 6-8 weeks isn't a problem if the vehicle is well-maintained

park it with a trusted soul who moves/drives it once a month or so, and looks it over before you fly in to pick it up - throw your stuff in and go - list of cruiser contacts along the planned route, AAA Premium plan, spare battery, CB and HAM, paper maps

personally, I have a policy of no-camping where there is infrastructure or 'civilization', and even if money was short, I'd rather stay in the rock bottom motel of a rinky-dink village in god-forlorne BFE

so two 80 series did just fine for my sister and me on 10 days of a 2500-plus miles south-north-south US trip in 2019 - no fridges, but two Pumas - we did some remote trails, no serious rock-crawling, some dirt roads, some 80% asphalt

 

[Mark W]

We have camped in tents with some pretty rough weather and been fine once we were able to find ways to keep the tent pegs from getting pulled out by the wind. I doubt any RTT would have held up well to that but maybe a hardshell facing the correct direction would have. Part of me thinks the best option is a good ground tent that is easy to set up and take down, a good awning for rain cover and shade and some good rain gear/cold weather gear for the rough weather. It is versatile, keeps the land cruiser with lower center of gravity and is lighter. You could still have a kitchen set up in the back of the LC for convenience and speed of meal prep.

That said, you could (and sounds like you were planning to anyway) bring a ground tent and use it when or if the RTT can't take the weather. That would add a little bulk/gear but is good to have a back up if needed. It is always a little more challenging to plan for a trip that is so varied in location, weather and activity. Sounds like it will be a great trip though.

We seem to lean in the same direction so far as the answer to this situation. I have to admit I find it a little bit odd how none of the adventure seeking overlanders ever run into it on all of their daring expeditions?

The more I think about the things that a rooftop tent doesn't do for you, the things it does do and the compromises it does or doesn't call for, the more I start to wonder if sticking with the tried and true ground tent approach might be more my style. We have a number of tents and of course all the personal gear for rough weather. I recently bought a half dozen of the roll out roof rack mounted 8x8 awnings that are all over the market these days. One or two of those will be earmarked for this rig regardless.
As it happens I have stumbled across one of these for a pretty good price locally.

Camping Tents: Large Tents for Family & Car Camping | REI Co-op

Shop for Camping Tents at REI - FREE SHIPPING With $50 minimum purchase. Curbside Pickup Available NOW! 100% Satisfaction Guarantee

www.rei.com

Not really at the "gathering gear and equipping the rig" stage yet but I am thinking about picking it up and using it for some of my normal outings for a summer or two and seeing if I still like the idea. The usage will be very different but it should still let me form some more experienced opinions about the RTT thing.


Mark...

 

[cahill]

Found this comment on a RTT in the camping section here on mud (Roof Top Tent Choices - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/roof-top-tent-choices.1260590/) that commented on high winds/rain that seems favorable. Holding up to 50mp winds is pretty good. Just to be clear, I have no experience with RTTs so my opinion is worthless at best . I was kind of surprised to see that this one did well in the wind.

Not sure how well a Tepui would do with the wind but would be interested in your review if you go that route. The only other review I saw regarding RTT and weather was for a terrapod that ran into some rough storms on their way to Moab with wind and hail and it stood up just fine.

In thinking about them, I like the simplicity of the hard shell tents for set up and take down but obviously there is the compromise of sleeping space since you are limited to the width/length of the roof. In order for a RTT to work for me I would need to store the sleeping gear in the tent and then store supplies in the vehicle. Since the roof footprint and interior footprint are about the same, It doesn't seem like there is much difference to me then to sleep in the vehicle itself and store bulky/dirty gear on a roof rack. It would ultimately be lighter and cheaper that way. The challenge I see with this idea is cold food storage. Most fridge/freezers seem to be too tall to set up a platform to sleep ontop of in the rear of the vehicle and am not interested in putting a coolbox or fridge on the roof Maybe on a rear bumper carrier? This keeps bringing me back to a ground tent that is quick to set up. It can be store on the roof rack with other dirty/wet gear making it easy to access and store since it is usually one of the first things to set up and last things to be be put away.

Glad you have time to try out options before committing but sounds like you have plenty of experience as it is. Maybe you could borrow a RTT instead of having to buy one incase it isn't quite meet your needs? Would hate to buy a tent that ultimately doesn't work. I guess they can be re-sold and the loss can be thought of as an opportunity to try something new/renting a tent.

Anyway, here is the review below of the tent that had the review regarding winds.

I have an iKamper. Really like it, sturdy, warm, waterproof, and an essential here in AK it is dark inside. I have the skycamp mini on yakama round bars on my 200. Usually I’m of the school bigger is better but with RTT’s I like the smallest I can get away with. The mini is a 2 person tent but me and both my Teens can sleep in it just fine. We use it on our fall hunting trip up the Dalton to the Brooks range here in AK. This year we had 4 days of rain, up to 50 mph winds and temps in the 30’s. The tent did great.

View attachment 2790286

View attachment 2790287

 

[SOAZtim]

I have in fact looked at those along with a lot of other roof top setups. Everything from Expensive Italian Stuff to Cheap Chinese Crap...


I am liking the larger size of some of the soft tents. But I have to wonder how they would stand up to high winds. We have enjoyed being snuggled down in the sleeping bags in good tents while sitting out a few kick ass thunderstorms. The kind where it seems like someone has turned a hose on the tent and the whole thing would probably rip loose and fly away if it were not for your weight inside it. The better quality hard shells seem like thy would probably stand up to that. Not so sure about ANY of the soft tents. For that matter I have to wonder just how effective awnings that pass for "rain flys" would be in any real rain. Nothing wrong with catching a hotel room here and there, but it would suck to be chased out of the back country by a few days of rain.

I don't think I have ever read/heard that discussion when roof top tents are compared. The assumption seems to be that you will only camp on pretty days?

Mark...

Hey Mark,
The Campteq is a Roof Top Tent for some or more of a new roof if you do it the way we did. We cut our entire roof off and the Campteq was the top/bed. We could move the bed out of the way and have standing room. Full time in the truck for 3 years meant we wanted a bit more room and we didn't want to have to go outside to get into bed. I would still say that the poptop still didn't like the wind and rain. You still just have fabric between you and snow/water/wind/smokey fires/loud music. So, whatever you do, I'd suggest a downstairs bed. We now have a composite box on an 80 so it works well to sleep up stairs or down to take care of those issues.

 

[Exiled]

Here comes the unpopular opinion, but heck, a little controversy is always in the DNA of this clan. Based on your description, why build around an 80 series? Seems to me like a 100 series would be a better option for a rig that will see a lot of highway miles. Much more comfortable, more power to move a heavy, loaded rig around, and you can still hit decent trails everywhere you go with some sensible modifications. If you were doing more wheeling, I'd stick to the 80, but for lots of highway miles, hard to beat a 100.

 

[samatulich]

Have you considered taking two tents?
When I traveled up to the north slope, we used my two man backpacking tent for when we needed shelter for the night and just slept on the ground; if staying multiple nights we setup my cabelas 6 man guide tent(I can’t recommend this tent enough), with cots, table and stove setup inside. We use mega-stakes to anchor everything down when the storms are forecasted. Have weathered many storms in that tent. Never had one blow away or leak. Always warm and dry.
Just my way of doing things.

 

[numby]

I don't normally reveal this much about my personal life on the internet but, for some context to my opinion, here goes...


I spent from 4 to much as 12 weeks a year traveling around a fairly large portion of western North America from Prince George in the north to central Baja California in the south all in some sort of 4X almost every year for two plus decades starting in the late 1970s. I did it mainly in one of three different vehicles: a four door SUV (79 FJ55), a light duty pick up (GM single cab 3/4T 4X4 w/ topper), and smallish 4 wheel drive station wagon (AMC Eagle). Where accessible I have seen the Pacific shore for most of that length and travelled inland as far as 1000 miles in places. I am less familiar by far with the deserts of the southwestern US than I am with the Rockies and Sierras and North Cascades but, truthfully, I can't begin to remember where all I've been and what I saw and didn't. The world was a big place then, with surprise and wonder around every corner. There were no cell phones. There was no internet. No Google Maps. Sadly, perhaps, the Earth has only grown smaller and become largely homogenous now, with every rock and vista pre-scouted and the subject of it's own badly over-produced hyper-biography available to watch anywhere, anytime, including while driving to see it. In urban centers a single brush has now painted most of the West, both large and small, with a mundane, repetitive commercial/industrial slurry. They call it "Sprawl".



One can still get away and experience true wonder if you have the right mind set but, back in those years, you were, by default, on your own and weeks might pass without anyone knowing your whereabouts. The sense of perspective was crushing and exalted all at the same time. Because of my absences I owe apologies to many for provoking their concern and furrowing their brows. I never had a phone, a plan, or "bucket list". I almost never had a camera. My aim was to travel and camp and explore and, occasionally, have a night out in a big city until either the money or my wanderlust ran dry. Whatever came was alright by me. There was no win or lose - no success or failure - with travel like that. All was good. I ventured where I wanted and when I wanted. I swam in rivers to bathe and ate my simple fare often alone and under the stars. I woke to the sun as well as to new-fallen snow. I took lodging when needed or desired. I did this with partners and without. I humbly offer these few thoughts...



With what you describe - i.e. - living arrangements for 2, occasional transportation for 4 (or more), some load carrying capacity for somewhat minimized gear requirements, the ability to get around in large urban areas without difficulty or attracting too much attention when pursuing entertainment/restocking/hotel camping/guerrilla squatting, coupled with the need to cover ground both on-highway and off, and no specific time frame within which to complete an itinerary because next year you can pick up wherever you left off last year - I would suggest a largish SUV or a mid-sized extra cab PU (w/folding second row seats) combined with a large topper or even a spartan pop-up camper. Forego any extraneous bling or battery (By that I mean "armament" that you will battle the elements with). Include a mid-sized tent for nice weather and secure locations. Sleep inside in inclement weather or in a parking lot/rest stop if needed. Neat and discreet. Plus what's under the hood can be oh so sweet without anyone being the wiser.



You say you're envisioning this as a yearly activity for a long time to come so what's the rush to nail down your ultimate vehicle? In two or three years, as you settle into your own rhythm, you can easily sell off and build a more dedicated rig tailored to suit.

I've almost certainly said more than enough but I can elaborate if you'd like.

 

[on the rocks]

I’m in the middle of doing something similar but want to have a small base camp camper to go out of eventually. Couple things come to mind.
- baseline it. I don’t mean change the oil and plugs but go thru the entire thing and replace all mechanical parts. They are getting used and to do it right replace everything you can afford to. In the realm of $10k-$15kb. Double that if the motor is getting tired.
- I would suggest 35’s. They are perfect for the 80 if done right. No armor, keep it as light as possible. Unfortunately bumpers add a lot to this. A lot of good options out there these days.
- think about camping out of the back instead of a RTT. 6-8 weeks in a RTT doesn’t sound like fun to me but I never have had one or care to. Yank the middle and rear sets and there is a ton of room back there. On longer stays I use a rear hatch tent and dock to a ez-up cube. Had a local shop add a hatch zipper to the cube and it works great. Use it to save a spot and go out and explore a few days if needed and leave heavy gear behind. It gets mangled from wind they are cheap and easy to replace. Tons of room in these things and you can fully stand up in it.
- plan on one awning. It’s the one thing I always wished I had. Keep it light and small.
Hopefully if I can get mine in order I’m working to go 2-3 weeks over major mountain passes next summer in CO. Something similar to what your thinking. Go up and over the pass and camp up top at locations I have scouted on the MX over the years, stay a day or two and hike/ bike then move to the next town one night and shower up in a room and move to the next.

Good luck, alot of options out there these days, I will be interesting to see what you come up with.

 

[Mark W]

Here comes the unpopular opinion, but heck, a little controversy is always in the DNA of this clan. Based on your description, why build around an 80 series? Seems to me like a 100 series would be a better option for a rig that will see a lot of highway miles. Much more comfortable, more power to move a heavy, loaded rig around, and you can still hit decent trails everywhere you go with some sensible modifications. If you were doing more wheeling, I'd stick to the 80, but for lots of highway miles, hard to beat a 100.

Mainly because I own 4 '80s that are road/trail ready. And I am intimately familiar with maintenance and repairs on this model.

Mark...

 

[Mark W]

Have you considered taking two tents?
When I traveled up to the north slope, we used my two man backpacking tent for when we needed shelter for the night and just slept on the ground; if staying multiple nights we setup my cabelas 6 man guide tent(I can’t recommend this tent enough), with cots, table and stove setup inside. We use mega-stakes to anchor everything down when the storms are forecasted. Have weathered many storms in that tent. Never had one blow away or leak. Always warm and dry.
Just my way of doing things.

Well, we will have backpacking tent(s) along, 'cause we will be doing plenty of backpacking. I do have one of the 6 man Cabelas "Alaskan Guide Tents". I agree it is a great tent. I love it for hunting camp or the occasional trail outing where we will have base camp for a couple of more days. For an extended outing that will tend to keep us closer (or on) the road system that will also see a significant percentage of one night stops I am thinking that this tent is not my first choice. I for love the room and the sturdiness. For a base camp it is hard to beat. For the trip we are envisioning, I am leaning more toward a very quick camp set up and take down. As I write this I am thinking about a two person effort that had everything out of the tent, the (medium sized 3 man) tent down and everything stowed in the rig read to pull out in literally less than 4 minutes... in the pouring rain at 4:30 am to meet the ferry out of Juneau a couple of summers ago. I'd hate to be trying that with the 6 man.

We started thinking about this concept with the idea that a nice camper was just the ticket. But wanting to be able to get away from motor home campgrounds and the ability to jump into it without major major new investments has led to more of a "road tripping" approach. At this stage, nothing is off the table. Well, except maybe the 40 foot motor home, or using motorcycles.

Mark...

 

[Mark W]

I don't normally reveal this much about my personal life on the internet but, for some context to my opinion, here goes...


I spent from 4 to much as 12 weeks a year traveling around a fairly large portion of western North America from Prince George in the north to central Baja California in the south all in some sort of 4X almost every year for two plus decades starting in the late 1970s. I did it mainly in one of three different vehicles: a four door SUV (79 FJ55), a light duty pick up (GM single cab 3/4T 4X4 w/ topper), and smallish 4 wheel drive station wagon (AMC Eagle). Where accessible I have seen the Pacific shore for most of that length and travelled inland as far as 1000 miles in places. I am less familiar by far with the deserts of the southwestern US than I am with the Rockies and Sierras and North Cascades but, truthfully, I can't begin to remember where all I've been and what I saw and didn't. The world was a big place then, with surprise and wonder around every corner. There were no cell phones. There was no internet. No Google Maps. Sadly, perhaps, the Earth has only grown smaller and become largely homogenous now, with every rock and vista pre-scouted and the subject of it's own badly over-produced hyper-biography available to watch anywhere, anytime, including while driving to see it. In urban centers a single brush has now painted most of the West, both large and small, with a mundane, repetitive commercial/industrial slurry. They call it "Sprawl".



One can still get away and experience true wonder if you have the right mind set but, back in those years, you were, by default, on your own and weeks might pass without anyone knowing your whereabouts. The sense of perspective was crushing and exalted all at the same time. Because of my absences I owe apologies to many for provoking their concern and furrowing their brows. I never had a phone, a plan, or "bucket list". I almost never had a camera. My aim was to travel and camp and explore and, occasionally, have a night out in a big city until either the money or my wanderlust ran dry. Whatever came was alright by me. There was no win or lose - no success or failure - with travel like that. All was good. I ventured where I wanted and when I wanted. I swam in rivers to bathe and ate my simple fare often alone and under the stars. I woke to the sun as well as to new-fallen snow. I took lodging when needed or desired. I did this with partners and without. I humbly offer these few thoughts...



With what you describe - i.e. - living arrangements for 2, occasional transportation for 4 (or more), some load carrying capacity for somewhat minimized gear requirements, the ability to get around in large urban areas without difficulty or attracting too much attention when pursuing entertainment/restocking/hotel camping/guerrilla squatting, coupled with the need to cover ground both on-highway and off, and no specific time frame within which to complete an itinerary because next year you can pick up wherever you left off last year - I would suggest a largish SUV or a mid-sized extra cab PU (w/folding second row seats) combined with a large topper or even a spartan pop-up camper. Forego any extraneous bling or battery (By that I mean "armament" that you will battle the elements with). Include a mid-sized tent for nice weather and secure locations. Sleep inside in inclement weather or in a parking lot/rest stop if needed. Neat and discreet. Plus what's under the hood can be oh so sweet without anyone being the wiser.



You say you're envisioning this as a yearly activity for a long time to come so what's the rush to nail down your ultimate vehicle? In two or three years, as you settle into your own rhythm, you can easily sell off and build a more dedicated rig tailored to suit.

I've almost certainly said more than enough but I can elaborate if you'd like.

Well said indeed. I completely agree with your thoughts as to approach and equipment. We will not be taking as much of the "young man enjoying the fact that he is free and footloose" approach. As much as I hate to admit it, we are a bit older these days and will still be dealing with commitments and connections to our professional lives in a very changed world. Damn it.
Unless we decide to go with a small motorhome/camper (doubtful, but...) we are pretty much married to the FZJ80 as a vehicle platform. I expect that the rig will be configured so that we can sleep inside it, particularly if we just need a discreet "pitstop" for some rest at a walmart or a trucktop. Even though we will certainly be setup to spread out more one way or the other when we have a more comfortable stop in mind.

And you hit the nail on the head with your last comment. Rather than make a oversized investment and wind up focusing too much on the rig and gear rather than enjoying what and where we are doing, for the most part we are gonna pack up what we have that we think we will need and hit the road. I am sure that we will make lots of changes and improvements along the way.

It is not as if we are newbies at all this, but the more extended journey far away from home base will be a bit of a new-ish thing for the two of us as a team. And I am a lot more familiar with using a sat phone to arrange an air drop of repair parts or hiking a couple of days back to the trailhead when something goes wrong than I am with arranging to get towing service and a place to work on my rig in south Alabama or metropolitan Chicago!..

Mark...

 

[fj4068]

Regarding spare/bumper/aux tank...prior to buying a bumper, I ran a home-brew spare tire swing-out that was lighter. The spindle mount was bolted up outside of the frame rail using existing captured nuts and bolt holes. The spindle poked up through a hole in the plastic end cap. The skid plate/over-center latch was bolted to the factory pintle holes. The original hitch receiver doubled as our skid plate in lieu of a heavy bumper.

 

[Godwin]

when something goes wrong than I am with arranging to get towing service and a place to work on my rig in south Alabama or metropolitan Chicago!..

Mark...

South Alabama a much better place for a trail fix than Chicago. I once blew a brake line in the FJ60 a few miles outside Andalusia, AL (that's deep south AL). I left the 60 in the parking lot of a rural church while I shuffled parts back and forth. Took a couple of days to fix it and no one messed with the truck while it sat.

 

[Mark W]

South Alabama a much better place for a trail fix than Chicago. I once blew a brake line in the FJ60 a few miles outside Andalusia, AL (that's deep south AL). I left the 60 in the parking lot of a rural church while I shuffled parts back and forth. Took a couple of days to fix it and no one messed with the truck while it sat.

I am not totally unfamiliar with either environment. For my money, Southern Alabama has a LOT more positives going for it than negatives. Metropolitain Chicago on the other hand...

Mark...

 

[SNLC]

Page 2 and no pics of said FZJ80?

I like to sleep in my Cruiser. Doable as a pair depending on how much room you need and if a fridge is in the way. Obviously not ideal with a fridge if even doable.

I like a simple awning. If not sleeping in the Cruiser a nice tent under the awning works for me. I have yet to see one of thos 270* awnings that can take wind like your wife experienced in DV. Simple single side awning, poles can be lowered, guided, side wall added, ect.

Lighter is better IMHO with any road trip camping Cruiser. I don’t need a lot stuff and use mostly backpacking plus white water gear. I have camp chairs but most the rest is light weight gear that packs small.

Cheers

 

[Mark W]

Page 2 and no pics of said FZJ80?

The rig that I expect we will use is plugged in out front, buried under a few inches of snow and it is -15F headed for lower tonight. So... no quick snapshots right now. At the moment, this rig is just one in the stable, nothing special about her. She is a backup rig and one that friends and family get to drive to tag along on outings. But, since most of us have never seen an '80 before... especially a green one... here ya go.

More seriously, other than a winch in the bumper, a couple of lights and a roof rack... and a rear bumper, I don't expect it will look much different on the outside once I do whatever I will do to her. I likely will not snorkel her if I am gonna move her south. Not a lot of river crossings to do in the '48 I am told. I am planning to keep the filler for the second fuel tank inside the original fuel door and I *might* even leave the suspension at stock height.

Mark...

 

[rc51kid]

I use my almost just like you describe. Other than lots of pm here is my opinion. 2 questions.

How many of you will be in the truck and do you really plan on an aux tank?

The aux tanks good but hard to find a oem and often expensive. If you are not getting one I would not get a rear bumper. Just keep the tire underneath. I love my Labs rear but it is heavy and is a pain opening the back all the time. If you dont need it scrip it.

If there is only one or two of you skip the rtt and develop a system to sleep in the truck. Take the rear seats out and you have so much room, wind proof, water proof, easy almost no set up time, very stealthy if you sleep on the side of the road. Gear storred inside can be a problem but it can be overcome. You can roof mount gear or if you are in the woods just store most stuff in Tupperware bins and slide it out at camp. Valuable toss them in the front seat. We have been doing it for years. To us it is easier than a rtt. We also had a sleeping platform with storage under it. Eventually we got rid of it and now like just a big open space in the back.

Really focus on the mods that make it nice to be in the truck. Good led lights inside, USB plugs to use, screens on windows and a fan for the night. I still use a simple camp stove and cook really simple.

Truck mods, front bumper to protect for animals strikes, get some good Baja Designs lights and wire them to shut off when you turn off your high beams. Slee makes a harness. That way you can use them on rural roads to spot animals. Stick with 33s and keep it stock hight or very low lift, and spend some money on good shocks. They wil keep it handling good on the road. King, icon, Slee or Radflo. If you are traveling alone like I do then you need some extra. I would add a winch and dual battery. You dont want to be stuck or have a dead batt when out by yourself.

I am sure there is more that could be said. But remember, less is more! Keep it simple and bring less stuff. The less you have with you the better it will work.

Ps I am going to contradict my self a little. I do keep it light and simple using my backpacking gear while sleeping in the truck. But we have found it handy to have a very small backpacking tent along. It downed to be a really fancy one. We got a basic 2 person Big Agnes on sale and it has been great. Occasionally in NF land or state parks it can be hard to find camp sights in the summer.
We can find them early day, set up the tent and head out to fish or hike, kind of claims the spot. Also some days we like to lay in it and nap. Or if it is rainy some times we have stored gear in it to make more room in the truck. It is just a nice versital option.

 

[White Stripe]

A camper isn't a bad idea but there are downsides to them too. I have a small pop up camper that we use quite a bit. My wife and I did a 4 week trip a few years back where we changed camp almost daily. Setup is pretty fast - take down in the morning is a bit slower when you time from wake up/breakfast to packed and ready to go - about 1 hour. Changing locations each day was a bit of a chore and tiresome. Finding a campsite is also harder with the trailer and so is turning around on dead end roads. Even just parking or driving in a city is more of a challenge. Another thing to consider is that your kitchen tends to be in the trailer so planning for when you are making meals is a consideration as you don't typically pop up the trailer just to have lunch, or you may be away from the trailer for dinner taking photographs or fishing - there are work arounds but it is something to consider. Gas mileage isn't too affected but stopping distance is. If you see some thing you suddenly want to stop for it is a lot harder to do than without the trailer. Also dirt road in a tent trailer are less fun and will limit which roads you chose to take and how long it takes to drive them.

We just did another 4 week road trip - this time with kids and chose to stay in each campsite for several days at minimum and up to 10 days in one spot. On driving days we stayed in hotels and it was a much more relaxed trip that way. The extra space of a tent trailer with a kitchen is nice and being able to use a heater in the cold mornings/nights is nice too. If it was just my wife and I, it would boil down to how often we were changing campsites and what type of roads we are taking. Most dirt roads in the lower 48 are fine but there are some camping places that we enjoy that we can't take the trailer to but the 80 gets there fine without lockers. The tent trailer is more comfy but can be cumbersome, the 80 alone is a little tighter/less comfortable but allows for more flexibility in where to camp, when and how often you stop and which road you chose to take. Just food for thought.

Yeah opening up the pop up does take some time. However now I have a atv winch that opens the roof it does open pretty fast. I would say I can open up the pop up as fast as most people can open a tent. With the solar panel and dual batteries I added it is able to be pretty self sufficient. I've taken it on some very rough roads. I wouldn't do helps revenge with it. I would just park it at a campsite in moab and set it up. Then go do trails with the 80. We get some pretty crazy wind at higher elevations in Colorado and it has been fine. I use the grill a lot. It has a propane grill that clips to the outside with a quick connect plug propane outlet. I guess driving through a city is a little more of a chore with a trailer. I have to park and walk in rather than go through the McDonald's drive through. But as a trade off I get some nice amenities while camping. Sitting on a toilet and taking a shower is awful nice vs digging a hole.