PHH hard line and hose replacement question (1 Viewer)

[CharlieS]

I was going to do preventative maintenance on my PHH, so I ordered the silicone hose kit with clamps from PHHKIt (Pesky Heater Hose Kits - http://www.phhkit.com/).

Later, when I pulled my PHH hard line the original paint was completely gone, and there was severe pitting where the PHH (original 30 year old, 297K mile, but not failed part!) attached to the pipe. I used a strip of emery cloth and some sandpaper to try to take down the pitting, but I'm not comfortable with the results.

Rather than risk a leak from the pitting, I ordered a new Toyota assembly (87209-60381) complete with pipe, hose and pin clamp.

Here's my question, would you put on the silicone hose and clamps, or keep the factory hose and clamps?

The last factory hose was 30 years old and going strong, so I'm leaning toward using the factory hose rather than the silicone.

I'm open to other thinking on it - since the silicone hose may be a upgrade worth doing for other reasons...

 

[effjay80]

Factory if replaced entire assembly.

 

[White Sheep]

The important thing is replacing it. Ppl have used the silicone, if you can get OEM that's great of course. . . I used a gates green strip hose.

 

[bhsdriller]

Silicone would be my last choice.
I'd do factory then gates green stripe after that

 

[BucketEighty]

How the heck did you get that metal tube off? the bolt behind the valve cover is basically impossible to reach.

 

[CharlieS]

It is a lot easier since I have the valve cover, intake, upper intake plenum, heater valve, heater hoses and upper plenum off. It opens things up quite a bit.

I might put this one in the top 5 of hard to reach stuff so far, but it definitely doesn't win top billing. The lower EGR pipe top bolt wins #1 and the lower bolt wins #2. The bolt holding the rear heater hard line to the firewall blocked by the head is probably #3, but it is a tight race with removing the PHH rubber hose.

 

[ZackR]

I removed the hard line and went with a long bypass using gates hose. It was a lot easier to do with the upper intake plenum off.

 

[BucketEighty]

It is a lot easier since I have the valve cover, intake, upper intake plenum, heater valve, heater hoses and upper plenum off. It opens things up quite a bit.

I might put this one in the top 5 of hard to reach stuff so far, but it definitely doesn't win top billing. The lower EGR pipe top bolt wins #1 and the lower bolt wins #2. The bolt holding the rear heater hard line to the firewall blocked by the head is probably #3, but it is a tight race with removing the PHH rubber hose.

Having everything apart makes it sound possible.

To answer your original question, I used a silicone hose and it's been going strong with no leaks since October 2022. My old metal tube had some corrosion on it that I made a half-hearted effort to scrub off with emery cloth with the tube installed on the truck before putting the new silicone hose on. The silicone sealed over the corrosion with no issues. I think the factory hose that came with your new metal tube will work great for the next 30 years and 300K miles. We all tend to overthink these things.

-Bucket

 

[CharlieS]

We all tend to overthink these things.

-Bucket

Guilty as charged!

At the end of the day, I want to go on trails and not have to worry about preventable failures. A little extra time and effort on PM is a lot more palatable to me than a trailside breakdown that ruins people's trips.

Plus I have a lot of Land Rover driving friends and need to represent for the reliable Toyota crowd. Makes it more fun around the campfire.

 

[BILT4ME]

I was going to do preventative maintenance on my PHH, so I ordered the silicone hose kit with clamps from PHHKIt (Pesky Heater Hose Kits - http://www.phhkit.com/).

View attachment 3378388

Later, when I pulled my PHH hard line the original paint was completely gone, and there was severe pitting where the PHH (original 30 year old, 297K mile, but not failed part!) attached to the pipe. I used a strip of emery cloth and some sandpaper to try to take down the pitting, but I'm not comfortable with the results.

Rather than risk a leak from the pitting, I ordered a new Toyota assembly (87209-60381) complete with pipe, hose and pin clamp.
View attachment 3378387

Here's my question, would you put on the silicone hose and clamps, or keep the factory hose and clamps?

The last factory hose was 30 years old and going strong, so I'm leaning toward using the factory hose rather than the silicone.

I'm open to other thinking on it - since the silicone hose may be a upgrade worth doing for other reasons...

Do the OEM as an assembly.

Do NOT use the silicone. They are known to leak coolant through the hose.

 

[BILT4ME]

How the heck did you get that metal tube off? the bolt behind the valve cover is basically impossible to reach.

I removed mine with a Craftsman 12mm ratcheting combination wrench. (Angled style, not flat)
The only thing that had been removed before attempting was the heater valve and hoses on the firewall.

I laid on top of the engine and did it blindly reaching over top. It really wasn't as bad as everyone gripes about.

I wasted more time trying to find the highly recommended wrench described below.

I tried a spline wrench with a flex head and was about 14" long and all that did well was round off the head of the bolt. (Icon brand from HF)

 

[Malleus]

I was going to do preventative maintenance on my PHH, so I ordered the silicone hose kit with clamps from PHHKIt (Pesky Heater Hose Kits - http://www.phhkit.com/).

View attachment 3378388

Later, when I pulled my PHH hard line the original paint was completely gone, and there was severe pitting where the PHH (original 30 year old, 297K mile, but not failed part!) attached to the pipe. I used a strip of emery cloth and some sandpaper to try to take down the pitting, but I'm not comfortable with the results.

Rather than risk a leak from the pitting, I ordered a new Toyota assembly (87209-60381) complete with pipe, hose and pin clamp.
View attachment 3378387

Here's my question, would you put on the silicone hose and clamps, or keep the factory hose and clamps?

The last factory hose was 30 years old and going strong, so I'm leaning toward using the factory hose rather than the silicone.

I'm open to other thinking on it - since the silicone hose may be a upgrade worth doing for other reasons...

I hate to tell you this, after you've spent the money, but Toyota's engineers are smarter than the marketing people who come up with ideas to sell in parts stores. All you need are the factory parts. Hoses are not forever parts; they're not mean to be. The reason people complain about this hose specifically, is that they claim it's a PITA to reach. Well, not really, but it's not a lot a fun.

You do have to get the clamps on the hose before you put it on the head, but you'd figure that out on your own. Eventually.

 

[Kernal]

FWIW I had the same thoughts when I found a rusty pitted PHH pipe and decided to do a few things to ensure a long life of both the hose and the pipe.

I first removed the new factory hose from the pipe assembly with the intention of just painting the pipe as when I went to scuff up the new pipe to paint it I found that the factory paint was super thin which I think is at least one reason that (steel) pipe is always found to be corroded at the ends..

At that point I decided to have the pipe Cerakoted (along with all the other pipes in the water heater circuit) and the main purpose of that was to decrease future corrosion which always occurs under where the hose connects to the pipes. This IMHO is also partly due to the factory clamps allow water/coolant to seep under the hose (between the hose the pipe) same for most other tradiational metal tension type clamps.

Or to put it another way, IMHO there are two weakesses that allow corrosion of the pipe ends/nipples which IME occurs from the outside in, the type of clamps used and the poor protection of the steel pipes from the inadequate factory paint.

I also substituted a section of 5/8" Gates Green Stripe hose because it has a thicker wall than the factory PHH hose, so should last even longer.

And last I used Gates Power Grip hose clamps which are a heat sensitive thermoplastic, basically thick heat shrink tubing bands designed to be leak proof, originally designed for over the road truck fleets.

The idea is no loosening, no cold leaks, and no internal leaking/seeping between the hose and the pipe nipple/ends which may mean less corrosion at the ends of the pipes. I did this to every water heater hose/pipe in the engine bay.

For the PHH in particular being only about 2" in length the Gates Power Grip clamps (bands) almost completely cover that section of hose, further protecting it from the outside and preventing a leak in-between the layers of the hose due to the complete compression of the hose by the clamp.

On top of all that I slid a short section of protective heat resistant sleeve
over the PHH.

The main goal of all the above was mostly to protect the PHH pipe which in a few years will most likely become NLA from Toyota, but also because in ?? years I won't be able to bend down into the left front wheelwell to replace the PHH again.

FWIW.

 

[ChargedSHOTaco]

The OEM lasted 30 years, I'd say go back with OEM and sleep easy.

 

[CharlieS]

I hate to tell you this, after you've spent the money, but Toyota's engineers are smarter than the marketing people who come up with ideas to sell in parts stores. All you need are the factory parts. Hoses are not forever parts; they're not mean to be. The reason people complain about this hose specifically, is that they claim it's a PITA to reach. Well, not really, but it's not a lot a fun.

You do have to get the clamps on the hose before you put it on the head, but you'd figure that out on your own. Eventually.

Thanks. I've done the PHH on both of the other 80 series I've owned, so this isn't new or foreign to me.

 

[CharlieS]

Thank you all. I am going to use the factory pipe and hose setup.

 

[FMC80]

Are you changing out those OEM, cotter-key clamps before installing or are you keeping them?

 

[CharlieS]

I was just going to leave it. The last one made it 30 years. But I am open to advice.

 

[baldilocks]

Speed matters so I skipped past all the great reading in the front matter of this thread. Has skipping the PHH been suggested? Use a length of gates heater hose directly from the head to the heater valve. Mine has been in since 16 and no problems.

 

[CharlieS]

Speed matters so I skipped past all the great reading in the front matter of this thread. Has skipping the PHH been suggested? Use a length of gates heater hose directly from the head to the heater valve. Mine has been in since 16 and no problems.

Yup. Definitely an option. I'd like to keep that for a field repair. I already have the hard line/hose inbound, and it is easy enough to just swap it out.