Official Supercharger Owner's Thread: Would you supercharge all over again?

[SUMOTOY]

...
I probably should do the sumotoy bypass soon. I'm not sure if it has been covered yet, but did we ever come to a final consensus on whether or not it is detrimental to have excess oil passed through the blower unit?

Sorry, that topic got mired in the debate on FZ PCV trap cans, another waste of money IMO. On the PCV mod, I called Magnuson and spoke to one of the engineers that actually remembered working on the TRD application in a former job. His claim was that the oil in the rotors actually was a good thing, as it created a tighter boundary layer between the rotors. He also thought that the Sumotoy PCV mod was a good idea, and didn't know why it was never routed that way in the kit.

I'm installing a supercharger as I right this. I elected to send out the injectors to RC Engineering to have them cleaned and balanced. Attached is the spec sheet I received back with the injectors.
I'll let the sheet speak for itself as far as whether it was a good idea or not.

It does speak for itself IMO/E.... If we compare that sheet to the FSM, the injectors were well within spec before they were cleaned. The FSM lists the following tests for fuel injectors:
272-328cm^3 output = 'in spec'
20cm^3 differences/min between injectors = 'in spec'
1 drop of leakage per minute = 'in spec'

So, the 'low' 284 was in spec, and the avg305 post cleaning output is 'mid spec'. The difference in the 6 averaged before and after cleaning "gain" is less than 4%. Production tolerances of other engine variables will make a bigger difference. IMO, save the 175bucks, use techron in the tank just before oil changes, and buy the more important tune up parts.

Again, unless specifically 'out of spec', IMO/E, I claim injector cleaning and balancing is a waste of money on an FZ motor. Your sheet tends to support my claim.

My .02 arbitraged thru the FSM

Scott J
94 FZJ80 Supercharged

 

[Romer]

Again, unless specifically 'out of spec', IMO/E, I claim injector cleaning and balancing is a waste of money on an FZ motor. Your sheet tends to support my claim.

My .02 arbitraged thru the FSM

Scott J
94 FZJ80 Supercharged

I would disagree with this postion.

Not saying I am right and your wrong, you gave your opinion and I gave mine.

I did my feul injector cleaning at the advice of Robbie (powderpig) when he did my headgasket along with cleaning out the throttle body. It's not just its out of spec now, its that the trend is going south and its not going to get better. The Toyota computer compensates, but they will keep going worse.
There is no way to tell if there ouit of spec without removing them. The cost to clean them is cheap. I consider this Preventative manitenance that allows me to not have to worry about them for another 150K miles.

 

[SUMOTOY]

I would disagree with this postion.

Not saying I am right and your wrong, you gave your opinion and I gave mine.

I did my feul injector cleaning at the advice of Robbie (powderpig) when he did my headgasket along with cleaning out the throttle body. It's not just its out of spec now, its that the trend is going south and its not going to get better. The Toyota computer compensates, but they will keep going worse.
There is no way to tell if there ouit of spec without removing them. The cost to clean them is cheap. I consider this Preventative manitenance that allows me to not have to worry about them for another 150K miles.

Cleaning is cleaning, period. Techron does a good job of that, BG carries a line of products that do the same thing. "Not going to get better" in what context? There was no rebuilding here, this was strictly a cleaning process. Much of which will "get better" because TRD premium fuel recommendation usually contain more cleansing detergents.

Do the actual results make it a must do, or even recommended procedure? Tough argument or opinion to support even with the data sheet Rick put up. The toyota computer doesn't compensate, the 'in specification' shows that's the tolerance of the fuel injector operational component of a properly running FZ engine. For 4% net gain, this procedure doesn't appear to support the claim. Put another way, how do we get the FSM 328cc spec? By definition, that's not a function of the injector cleaning? And by the same logic, new injectors should yield double the gain of cleaning.

I claim that this procedure makes no difference to the Supercharger install. IMO/E if the injectors are within spec per FSM, leave them. Mine passed the resistance ck and the 3 output tests 55k miles ago when I installed my SC. This cleaning procedure as a Supercharger install recommendation doesn't sound right. Since this procedure is outside the FSM reference to injector testing Ken, when and how in your opinion, do you recommend testing/cleaning them again?

Scott J
94 FZJ80 Supercharged

 

[FirstToy]

anyone else have an opinion on cons of SC ownership? (already clear on the pro)

I suspect because of the inferior fan included with the kit, some type of pusher fan is an advisable addition?

 

[Romer]

Not going down the rat hole of arguing my point with you Scott.

You gave your opinion and I gave mine. leave it at that. I did not recommend it as part of a SC install, just as part of PM. Do you wait for your fuel filter or PCV to clog before you change them, or change them when it feels right as PM so that you won't get stuck? I am very conservative towards PM and you can mathmatically argue that there is no need to do a lot of the stuff I do. Like there was no need to change the wheel bearings as they looked fine, but at 150K miles I felt I should and now have a spare set. The cleaning stuff was used regularly by me and lots of other folks who ended up getting theirs ultrasonic cleaned.

Again, this is a discussion for another thread and we will not argue this point here and take this thread off track. Plenty of threads on this out there.

Now as your moderator, we return you to the discussion of superchargers . . . . . . . .

 

[Romer]

anyone else have an opinion on cons of SC ownership? (already clear on the pro)

I suspect because of the inferior fan included with the kit, some type of pusher fan is an advisable addition?

I isntalled the JDM fan, which helps a lot towing up the mtn passes. This fall I also upgraded the fluid in the blue fan clutch and changed out the SC fan for the one Cdan recommends (search on Tools r us is a bad dude for a title). You have to modify the shroud for this 4runner fan.

To me, Heat is the biggest issue and this is mitgated by a well maintained colloing system and an accurate temp gauge (Stand alone or Ravantai mod). The aux fan just buys margin. I went and entire year, towing etc without the aux fan and no issues other than I turned my AC off twice while towing up a steep mtn pass. Thats using the accurate gauge to manage the temp. I may not have needed to shut off the AC, but I like being able to control something and see immediate results

I am thinking about doing the louvers that Treeroot did as well. he based the location on the yarn test I did last year and then decided not to install a scoop as a result.

 

[SUMOTOY]

Not going down the rat hole of arguing my point with you Scott.

You gave your opinion and I gave mine. leave it at that. I did not recommend it as part of a SC install, just as part of PM. Do you wait for your fuel filter or PCV to clog before you change them, or change them when it feels right as PM so that you won't get stuck? I am very conservative towards PM and you can mathmatically argue that there is no need to do a lot of the stuff I do. Like there was no need to change the wheel bearings as they looked fine, but at 150K miles I felt I should and now have a spare set. The cleaning stuff was used regularly by me and lots of other folks who ended up getting theirs ultrasonic cleaned.

Again, this is a discussion for another thread and we will not argue this point here and take this thread off track. Plenty of threads on this out there.

Now as your moderator, we return you to the discussion of superchargers . . . . . . . .

The difference in this thread Ken? It would appear to be part of the recommended SC install procedure of this thread. I own and installed my SC, put it in 55k ago, and used the factory tests to determine fuel injector condition. The cleaning discussion doesn't appear to be tangential. TRD does not even address fuel injector testing in the installation of the SC, which tends to support any other procedure than FSM, is not a necessary condition of a properly installed SC.

I'd further venture, if no other test procedure is recommended, this thread should only identify per FSM, a properly functioning fuel injector. I pulled the FSM of a handy Audi 18psi turbo I5 application that shows the same 'in spec' 20cc variance between injectors with an output variance 'in spec' of 300-340cc. CIS turbo 'in spec' is 15% variance between injectors. Sounds like the stock FZ fuel injector spec is usual and customary to me, boosted or non.

I suspect because of the inferior fan included with the kit, some type of pusher fan is an advisable addition?

An aux fan can help, but it's more of a A/C mod than a 'cooling mod' per sae. The best advice for the radiator is good radiator fluid, and make sure to direct as much air thru it as possible. The hood vents I found to be most helpful in releasing trapped underhood heat in low speed driving.

Scott J
'94 FZJ80 Supercharged

 

[Romer]

I didnt say it was relevant Scott. I'll be more clear, I am not going to get into a long and drawn out argument with you on this subject.

I stated I did it for PM. You stated mathmatically you see little bang for the buck and gave your rationale. I dont disagree with your math or recommending checking for a proper operating fuel injector. I think we have stated our opinions, with why and are done.

 

[NLXTACY]

I added some 10000CST fluid to my blue hub and I would like to add an aux fan for good measure. The OEM toyota aux fan would be nice and something I'd like to have in the future, but for now I have been looking at some cheapo advanced auto 10" fan while $$ is tight if I do run into problems with heat.

I actually got mine from SOR. It was $60 w/ the pigtail...both sides.

It installs in about an hour or so. You just need the relay, switch, fuse and however you want to install it. Went together really easily.

 

[SUMOTOY]

I actually got mine from SOR. It was $60 w/ the pigtail...both sides.

It installs in about an hour or so. You just need the relay, switch, fuse and however you want to install it. Went together really easily.

Many U-pullit yards have pusher fans cheap. Late model BMW uses a 2 stage pusher fan that looks very attractive, and volvo and mercedes also use them. A few of them will push a lot more air than the JDM fan, making them more desireable if looking to increase airflow thru the radiator vs cooling for condensor. I recommend the Sumotoy Pressure Switch mod for the A/C performance. You can override the ground on the relay if you want the pusher fan without the A/C.

Scott J
94 FZJ80 Supercharged

 

[FirstToy]

I isntalled the JDM fan, which helps a lot towing up the mtn passes. This fall I also upgraded the fluid in the blue fan clutch and changed out the SC fan for the one Cdan recommends (search on Tools r us is a bad dude for a title). You have to modify the shroud for this 4runner fan.

To me, Heat is the biggest issue and this is mitgated by a well maintained colloing system and an accurate temp gauge (Stand alone or Ravantai mod). The aux fan just buys margin. I went and entire year, towing etc without the aux fan and no issues other than I turned my AC off twice while towing up a steep mtn pass. Thats using the accurate gauge to manage the temp. I may not have needed to shut off the AC, but I like being able to control something and see immediate results

I am thinking about doing the louvers that Treeroot did as well. he based the location on the yarn test I did last year and then decided not to install a scoop as a result.

thanks romer,
yeah the louvres that treeroot did are impressive. I like them a lot.
your yarn test was helpful too, thanks for that.

 

[cruiserdan]

anyone else have an opinion on cons of SC ownership? (already clear on the pro)

I suspect because of the inferior fan included with the kit, some type of pusher fan is an advisable addition?

One ongoing con is the requirement of premium fuel.

 

[Grench]

I actually got mine from SOR. It was $60 w/ the pigtail...both sides.

It installs in about an hour or so. You just need the relay, switch, fuse and however you want to install it. Went together really easily.

I went a little stranger on my OEM aux fan install.

I wired it to a relay controlled by the low beam aux light connector on my Slee wiring harness.

Anytime the low beams are on the aux fan is too. I did it this as a temporary setup until I can figure out a temperature controlled switch to turn it on when under hood temps cross 180.

Yes, for my build truck I would do it again. With the 33" tires, stock gears and 1000 lbs or so of 'extra' weight, it needed the power bump.

I'm still debating on whether to spend the $3500 or so to do it on my wife's truck. Stock tires, no armor, grocery getter. It gets around quite nicely as is and doesn't need premium gas. The power would be nice, but it doesn't need it for it's current service.

I did a -lot- of WYIT stuff with the idea that I want to avoid going back in for a while.

In installing my SC I had the injectors mapped at a local diesel shop. The guy there said he would map them and then clean them -if they needed it-. They did not need it. The $8? an injector that I spent having them checked was a nice peace of mind to know that they are all healthy and delivering similar spec quantities of fuel.

I have a few things left to do before I do a post-SC dyno (Exhaust and install my LT MAF). I need to find a stainless exhaust artist in the Omaha/Lincoln NE area though, so that might be a while.

 

[NLXTACY]

Many U-pullit yards have pusher fans cheap. Late model BMW uses a 2 stage pusher fan that looks very attractive, and volvo and mercedes also use them. A few of them will push a lot more air than the JDM fan, making them more desireable if looking to increase airflow thru the radiator vs cooling for condensor. I recommend the Sumotoy Pressure Switch mod for the A/C performance. You can override the ground on the relay if you want the pusher fan without the A/C.

Scott J
94 FZJ80 Supercharged

Well I wanted something bolt on where I wouldn't have to make brackets and such being as I have no way to work with metal here at home.

 

[landtank]

how any one could look at that spread sheet and not come away with the notion that sonically cleaning the injectors is a good idea on an engine of this age is beyond me. But hey to each their own.

FWIW, once the head was removed we noted two cylinders showing a lean running condition.

When boosting an engine ALL tolerances are more critical. The more boost the more critical. So it stands to reason that the factory allowances for injector tolerances no longer apply as they were spec'd for a NA engine.

This post as well as the previous one is for information purposes only and everyone can do with it what they like.

 

[NLXTACY]

how any one could look at that spread sheet and not come away with the notion that sonically cleaning the injectors is a good idea on an engine of this age is beyond me. But hey to each their own.

Exactly what I thought when I saw it.

BTW, did you consider having the throttle body bored out as well? I did it on my 4Runner along with the injector cleaning/blueprinting at RC Engineering and the effects were mind blowing on a naturally aspirated motor. I am thinking of doing it to the LX as well but haven't heard/read of anyone doing it.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

I for one would not have a SC again if I lived where the ambient temperature reached over 100 degrees.

My vote might not count because I dont have the 80 anymore...

 

[landtank]

Exactly what I thought when I saw it.

BTW, did you consider having the throttle body bored out as well? I did it on my 4Runner along with the injector cleaning/blueprinting at RC Engineering and the effects were mind blowing on a naturally aspirated motor. I am thinking of doing it to the LX as well but haven't heard/read of anyone doing it.

actually I don't think the payoff for that is as big as on a NA engine. However, I did take the head to a race shop for some performance work. The valves were ground and blue printed and the exhaust and intake ports were ported and flow matched on the bench.

BTW, the guy who did the work was around 65 YO and a third generation artisan at this stuff. I've gone to races around here and have seen his name on almost every car on the field.

I'm kind of excited to get in this thing when it's done.

 

[bpassmore]

actually I don't think the payoff for that is as big as on a NA engine. However, I did take the head to a race shop for some performance work. The valves were ground and blue printed and the exhaust and intake ports were ported and flow matched on the bench.

BTW, the guy who did the work was around 65 YO and a third generation artisan at this stuff. I've gone to races around here and have seen his name on almost every car on the field.

I'm kind of excited to get in this thing when it's done.

That is pretty cool. What did that port set you back?

 

[landtank]

That is pretty cool. What did that port set you back?

valve work, port and cleaning both halves of the intake was $2800.00